Peter Griffin
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Literally can't be worse than the last 7+ years.
Speculation: Fantasy GM and Rumor Roundup Thread | "Trader Jim" gearing up for TDL
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Literally can't be worse than the last 7+ years.
Canucker
Go Hawks!
For me, next year is a write off meant for team development and cap management. With new upper management installed they will need to flesh out roles and determine if they need to strip down and re-vamp their pro and amateur scouting departments, their minor league development group, the analytics department and cap management teams. They will have their work cut out for them...We already have $2.4m in dead cap space, plus another potential $1.5m with Halak, if they are unable to move him before his bonuses kick in...Luongo recapture comes off the books so they're replacing one waste of cap space with another. If they can jettison 3-4 of their inefficient contracts (ie Pearson, Poolman, Dickinson, Hamonic) and replace them with ELC's or cheaper reclamation projects that would be a bonus. We're stuck with OEL until at least 2024-25 and its unlikely that they move Myers at this point so it's pretty imperative that we find some bargains and get rid of the contracts that are inefficient. With a solid draft crop coming next year, this is the time to take the necessary "step back" in order to take two steps forward.
That's a fair comment on Matheson's 16/17 and 17/18 seasons - his numbers weren't bad given he was playing top pairing minutes on a bad team - but he was moving down the depth chart by 18/19 and was playing second pairing minutes in 19/20 and still getting killed. His quality of competition was middling too. He was basically on the Keith Ballard trajectory before he got to Pittsburgh.
The broader point is that these things are useful descriptive tools but not the be all and end all for projection.
It’s like he has decided to be a part time player this year with all the mysterious injuries.
A bit of a strange comment though when the team should want to cash in on the crazy prices. I get trading a piece like Miller early if they decide to move him, since he will be the best forward on the market and they should get teams' best prices early, but for depth pieces like Motte or Schenn they should probably go down to the wire.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Seemed pretty clear what he was talking about...
- He's going to give these guys a shot to make the playoffs, they deserve it.
-The team has exceeded his initial expectations (good players on the team)
-The Canucks are 'past' the rebuild cycle, but not yet at the SC contender level.. getting close.
-Waiting to get his staff organized before they make any transactions (teams been mostly winning since he's been here..so there's really no urgency)
There's no spin.
Listening to Rutherford, he picks his words carefully..He wasnt vague, or pulling the wool (lip service, PR etc) over anyones eyes....Sounds more of a case of a bunch of posters here, plugging their ears, because Rutherford didn't come in and immediately stick a fork in the team.
That's a disciplined and forward thinking approach and I'd be good with it, one possible exception is I think Myers is movable with how he's played and we should do it and not be picky about the price.
Trade Miller if he isn't willing to re-sign here and even retain salary if that juices the return, make sure we get a top 1/2 young RHD.
If Miller is willing to re-sign here at good value then look at moving Boeser. I'd be open to Horvat as well but there'd need to be a plan in place to replacing the C position.
Pearson could possibly be moved even for minimal returns and I'd do it, Dickinson harder but hopefully could pull off, Poolman, yeesh, probably can't be done without adding but if anyone will take him, heck, I'd even waive him for free. Cement Martin as the back-up before Halak hits his bonuses and work with Halak to find a mutual destination, and if he refuses, it sucks but sit him for the year and keep him off the cap next year. Trade Myers for whatever we can get and see if we can get a decent return for Motte.
Free up cap, load up on picks, but keep the core competitive pieces in place and in a couple years time we'll be on the right footing. I get that it sucks waiting longer but the solution to that was not sticking with Benning these past few years.
Yeah, agreed. The "crazy prices" feels different when you're a seller vs a buyer.
The one thing why I'd be willing to trade early if we got a return we wanted, even at the risk of not getting the best return is we're always risking an injury every day we wait to get it done.
Peter Griffin
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He also said he thinks they can be “contenders” in 2 years, ie:actually make the playoffs, but he’s not going to guarantee that. To me that reads, we’re at best 2 years away from actually being a consistent playoff team and likely longer.
He doesn’t think Benning’s built a team that can consistently compete. Nobody does.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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He never said that this is a team that can consistently compete (for the cup)..He does think that this team is good enough to make the playoffs...and that is his primary focus right now.
If it wasn't for the insurmountable pit the Canucks put themselves in earlier this season...They would comfortably be in a playoff spot.
I'm seeing some very light lip service about making the playoffs surround by a ton of talk about big changes, years away, and clearing cap space.
My perception is a guy who a) isn't going to speak rashly just in case the team goes 8-0 or something before the point where they're ready to make changes b) doesn't want to weaken his bargaining position by announcing FIRE SALE! and c) doesn't see the point of disrupting the room by announcing that the playoffs aren't happening this year.
Stuff like his 'up against the cap and out of the playoffs' comment from a week ago makes his position pretty clear. We're going to be clearing out contracts and cap space.
My perception is a guy who a) isn't going to speak rashly just in case the team goes 8-0 or something before the point where they're ready to make changes b) doesn't want to weaken his bargaining position by announcing FIRE SALE! and c) doesn't see the point of disrupting the room by announcing that the playoffs aren't happening this year.
Stuff like his 'up against the cap and out of the playoffs' comment from a week ago makes his position pretty clear. We're going to be clearing out contracts and cap space.
“It’s not like they made the finals last year” is a pretty damn clear sign.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Thats not a damning comment..Only two teams make the finals.(and one of them from last season is now a bottom feeder)...It was made in the context that there would be roster spots available in the bottom half of the lineup next season.
The ton of trade talk isn't coming from him..Its the media..creating rumours that 'take on a life of their own'
“We're certainly not starting from scratch. There's a lot of good players there.”JR.
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Rutherford very clearly talked about poor cap management and the need to clear cap space. The only way to clear cap space is significant trades and assets moving out. That is coming *directly* from him.
Saying you aren't starting from scratch is not the same is saying you plan on competing for the playoffs this year.
Peter Griffin
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For the next few weeks and then when it’s clear they won’t be making the playoffs, moves will be made to hopefully help turn this franchise around to one that can consistently make the playoffs rather than one that might make it one season and then be forced to make cuts to the roster the next just to be able to ice a team.
Comments like this confuse me. What exactly are we in the honeymoon phase over? I guess getting rid of one of the worst gm's in history? And moving to one with decades of experience and some cups?
Rutherford has not done anything yet as gm (or president), good or bad. Like all gm's he will be judged on pro and amatuer scouting, trades, cap space ect... He has done nothing, so unless you are a real pessimist what should we be complaining about.
We already have some complaining about his comments in the media as if he was jim benning who told the media everything he was thinking, thats how sour some fans are yet and looking for problems.
When he does something with the team he will be graded like every other gm. Good or bad.
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Essentially,he’s not going to pull the rug from under the team while they are in earshot of making the playoffs..and if they are still close around the TDL ,he will likely stand pat.
We all know that he has to cut the fat off the team to get more cap flexibility..but that may not happen until the off season…Depends on where the team is at (we should have a clearer idea within the next 2-3 weeks).
Pastor Of Muppetz
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Again,if they are clearly out..we should expect moves..if not he won’t…
Even if they made the playoffs this season,I would still expect him to make the necessary cuts to get cap flexibility ( in the off season)
BimJenning
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Just looking at the title of this thread is giving me PTSD about the former Trader Jim
Whats even the benefit of making the playoffs this year? the top 8 teams are just so much better than us. Just seems pointless to even really care about making them when the benefit will only be felt in the scumbag owners pockets.
The main reason to get rid of Benning when they did instead of waiting even longer was so that the team WOULDN'T make Benning type changes, trying to improve the team for this season at the cost of resources for the future. Rutherford and Allvin haven't done that.
Not digging an even deeper hole is a very good thing. Changing the coach and keeping the GM would have been shockingly stupid.
There no reason why he has to have made any trades so far. He hasn't come near a deadline. The team has played well since the former gm and coach were let go. They were in such a hole that making the playoffs was pretty much an impossible dream and we really, really don't want to be buyers this deadline, as JB might have been if the team showed any remote sign of life.
If Allvin and Rutherford think they can do better than the offers they've received so far, there's no rush at this stage for them to pull the trigger. They've got a month and a half to the trade deadline. The deals they make aren't going to help the Canucks make the playoffs this season, so there's absolutely no reason to rush to improve the 2021-2022 Vancouver Canucks.
With the trade deadline approaching, in order to decide what direction to go the team wants to get some idea whether they'll be in a position to re-sign some of their most tradeable assets (and perhaps whether the acquiring teams can sign them if there are conditional picks involved.) If the Canucks won't be able to sign the players to extensions they try to trade them for something to avoid the Canucks' previous standard practice of losing players for nothing in July.
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They aren't standing pat. Rutherford's comments (and Rutherford's history) make that pretty clear. They aren't chasing an 8% playoffs chance. They aren't in earshot. They aren't close. And they aren't stupid like the previous GM.
Allvin was hired barely a week ago. They're still doing evaluations. They're still touching base with agents and doing cap and contract projections. They're still formulating a plan for specifically what they're going to do.
While they're still planning, there is absolutely nothing to be gained by pre-advertising a fire sale. Just stand behind the team for the time being and give some lip service to being competitive. Don't disappoint fans who are still buying tickets quite yet. Maybe build some worry in other GMs that JT Miller won't be moved.
I have very little doubt that we'll start to see some significant moves before February is over.
BrentSopelsHair
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That comment is actually more damning considering how bad the Canucks were last year.
It's obvious hyperbole, he's not actually comparing them to finals teams. It's just gesturing at this pile of misfits and noting that our spending structure does not have any correlation to how good the team is, and therefore we need major surgery
In the case of Myers, OEL and Dickinson, getting rid of them may be easier said than done. The issue is how much the Canucks have to give away to dump their contracts or what bad contracts they get back in return. The team isn't going to be able to trade those contracts for a positive return.
Similarly, some people mention Hamonic. It is hard to imagine any team trading anything of any positive value for him right now.
What rebuild was that? The last series of transactions from the Canucks that seemed remotely close to being a rebuild was done by Brian Burke in early 1999 to early 2000, when he traded away Bure, Hedican, Bryan McCabe and Alex Mogilny and picks with the returns including Brendan Morrison and the Sedins.
Linbenning decided to "retool" instead and when Linden wanted to rebuild, he and the team "amicably" parted ways.
If Rutherford gave the slightest damn about contending for the playoffs this season he would have added some waiver-level defensive and PK depth by now instead of continually playing the Hunts and Dowlings of the world. The fact that he hasn't shows you where his head is at.
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Just A Bit Outside
Playoffs??!
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If Rutherford and Allvin think this team might be a contender in potentially two years, then they are idiots.
The team f***ing sucks.
If they end up keeping Miller, Boeser and the like while only dealing the likes of Garland, Pearson and (hopefully) Poolman, then that doesn’t do anything.
I get it’s likely posturing but Jesus, major changes are required to be an actual cup contender.
And it’s sure as hell going to take longer than 2 years.
The team f***ing sucks.
If they end up keeping Miller, Boeser and the like while only dealing the likes of Garland, Pearson and (hopefully) Poolman, then that doesn’t do anything.
I get it’s likely posturing but Jesus, major changes are required to be an actual cup contender.
And it’s sure as hell going to take longer than 2 years.
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