News Article: Fans Back in The Stands

[Ryder71]

When there's a pandemic, any social choice someone makes affects everyone.

That can be said about anything, really.

 

[pistolpete11]

Maybe they already got vaccinated?

I don't want to judge a book by its cover, but I doubt it. And there were still signs posted that masks were required.

Besides, I think it is just common courtesy to wear a mask at a time like this. Even if you're vaccinated, the people around you don't know that. Again, it's not that big of a deal to wear a mask for 5min while you take a piss.

 

[Ryder71]

I don't want to judge a book by its cover, but I doubt it. And there were still signs posted that masks were required.

Besides, I think it is just common courtesy to wear a mask at a time like this. Even if you're vaccinated, the people around you don't know that. Again, it's not that big of a deal to wear a mask for 5min while you take a piss.

I always wear masks, wash hands, practice social distancing and such. And have done so for nearly a year now. Honestly, it doesn't bother me at all UNLESS it's really hot out. But not everyone needs to if they got vaccinated.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Ok. But like, most of them are Canadians in a totally different situation. I can understand their feelings just like the Kiwis feeling different about this.

It seems Americans are the outliers, for the most part. Which explains a fair bit.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I always wear masks, wash hands, practice social distancing and such. And have done so for nearly a year now. Honestly, it doesn't bother me at all UNLESS it's really hot out. But not everyone needs to if they got vaccinated.

If I am not mistaken, the vaccine will prevent you from being sick, but it won't prevent you for carrying and spreading the disease. Also, from what I understand, masks mainly protect OTHERS against your germs (they reduce the number of particule that you spread in the air).

So, once again, from what I understand, wearing a mask until we reach herd immunity seems to be the wiser decision EVEN if you are vaccinated. You still "catch", carry and spread the virus even if you won't get sick from it.

 

[The Old Master]

When there's a pandemic, any social choice someone makes affects everyone.

true, as long as you don't force anyone to do something they chose not to. because anything you do will effect someone some way.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

That can be said about anything, really.

In the broadest possible sense. But we're talking about a pandemic that's killed more Americans than WW2 in a fraction of the time.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

true, as long as you don't force anyone to do something they chose not to.

People can always choose to do what they want. Consequences aren't always legal ones...some consequences are simply the collateral damage one's willing to inflict on their fellow citizens to gratify their wants.

 

[Ryder71]

If I am not mistaken, the vaccine will prevent you from being sick, but I won't prevent you for carrying and spreading the disease. Also, from what I understand, masks mainly protect OTHERS against your germs (they reduce the number of particule that you spread in the air).

So, once again, from what I understand, wearing a mask until we reach herd immunity seems to be the wiser decision EVEN if you are vaccinated. You still "catch", carry and spread the virus even if you won't get sick from it.

Unless you live under communist rule you can't legislate every little thing. I do my part, I'm an amazing individual, that's all I can do. If people don't wear masks at this point, that's the way it goes. It bothered me more a couple months back then it would now. It's just not good to constantly live in fear. I myself believe I struck the right balance here. As I said I do my part, and I leave the rest for others to worry about.

 

[ChaosAgent]

In the broadest possible sense. But we're talking about a pandemic that's killed more Americans than WW2 in a fraction of the time.

It matters to me that the average American killed in WW2 had 70% of their life ahead of them, and for COVID the average American who died had about 5% of their life ahead of them.

There has been a lot of public policy before 2020 on the basis that was the default position. It's why QALYs even exist as a concept.

Little did I know I was in the minority there.

 

[The Old Master]

People can always choose to do what they want. Consequences aren't always legal ones...some consequences are simply the collateral damage one's willing to inflict on their fellow citizens to gratify their wants.

that's the down side of living in a free country and a very small one that i'm more than willing to live with.

 

[Ryder71]

In the broadest possible sense. But we're talking about a pandemic that's killed more Americans than WW2 in a fraction of the time.

People die for all sorts reasons. Maybe it was their time. Maybe they would have died of heart failure or some other condition, who knows. You'll drive yourself batty if you worry about every little thing.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Auto accidents claim thousands and thousands of lives. Maybe ban cars? Heart disease is the number 1 killer in all of the United States...maybe outright bans on all fatty foods - ignore pre existing conditions because those facts get in the way of my policy...and go from there.

Heart attacks and auto collisions aren't contagious, and there's no comparison between flu numbers and covid numbers.

There is a law about seat belts enforced to save lives though.

 

[Ryder71]

It matters to me that the average American killed in WW2 had 70% of their life ahead of them, and for COVID the average American who died had about 5% of their life ahead of them.

There has been a lot of public policy before 2020 on the basis that was the default position. It's why QALYs even exist as a concept.

Little did I know I was in the minority there.

Very good point. There's a lot of nuance to this that many overlook. A lot of young people lost their lives in WW2. I would say there's a huge disparity as to the average age of the people dying now.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

People die for all sorts reasons. Maybe it was their time. Maybe they would have died of heart failure or some other condition, who knows. You'll drive yourself batty if you worry about every little thing.

People die for all sorts of reasons, but 500,000 Americans have died from covid.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

It matters to me that the average American killed in WW2 had 70% of their life ahead of them, and for COVID the average American who died had about 5% of their life ahead of them.

There has been a lot of public policy before 2020 on the basis that was the default position. It's why QALYs even exist as a concept.

Little did I know I was in the minority there.

I don't value young life over elderly life.

 

[Ryder71]

People die for all sorts of reasons, but 500,000 Americans have died from covid.

And maybe many of them would have died anyhow along the same time line. I honestly don't know how you or people of your mindset find much in the way of peace or happiness. A year into this and it's the same rhetoric. I'm not saying you don't have a valid argument to some degree. But man it's a dreary and depressing way to live.

 

[The Old Master]

People die for all sorts of reasons, but 500,000 Americans have died from covid.

war has killed lots of people over the years, and we and others have tried to ban bio weapons' so when one accidently or otherwise uses one. what is the "world " going to do?

 

[Ryder71]

I don't value young life over elderly life.

I do, Someone dying at 20 and not having an opportunity to live and find happiness over someone who's lived a long life and might have realized their dreams, got married enjoyed the comfort of a family and such. Yeah big difference IMO.

 

[Gold Diamond]

People die for all sorts of reasons, but 500,000 Americans have died from covid.

Mostly from other co-morbidities that COVID pushed over the edge. It's disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Unless you live under communist rule you can't legislate every little thing. I do my part, I'm an amazing individual, that's all I can do. If people don't wear masks at this point, that's the way it goes. It bothered me more a couple months back then it would now. It's just not good to constantly live in fear. I myself believe I struck the right balance here. As I said I do my part, and I leave the rest for others to worry about.

What I fail to understand here is how so many of you brings it back to an individual choice. People not wearing a mask are not choosing a brand of soap or a movie to watch. They are choosing to deliberately put OTHER PEOPLE'S LIFE in danger in the name of their right to choose. As I mentioned earlier, it might be a cultural difference between Canada and the USA, but I REALLY have a hard time understanding the logic. Anyway, I won't debate you on this, I think I do not place as much importance on individual choices as some of you do and that's fine.

Some people are too dumb to make smart choices OR too selfish to make choices that won't negatively affect a large portion of the population, that's why societies have rules and laws. Rules and laws that are framed, at least in Western societies, to GUARANTEE to a maximum of individuals that their rights and freedoms will be respected. Freedom does not mean that you are free to put your fellow man in danger without potentially facing consequences. If you drive like a maniac and kill someone, you can get prosecuted for manslaughter. Not wearing a mask when there is a mask mandate could be seen the same way (and, no, I do not believe people SHOULD be prosecuted). Reducing things like mask wearing to a personal choice IN THE MIDDLE OF A DEADLY pandemic is very hard for me to understand. It seems way more about core values/beliefs than about the particular situation. And that's fine, as the cultural minority here, I won't try to impose my World views on you guys. I am just trying to understand the logic behind a very widespread way of seeing things. As I said many times, I feel it might be deeply cultural.

I firmly belief that everything in life as a context. I also firmly belief that every decision, either individual or collective, should take context into account. I try not to let any dogmatic ideas of... anything impair my judgment. Easier said than done considering we all have cultural biases.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I don't value young life over elderly life.

I know.

 

[Ryder71]

war has killed lots of people over the years, and we and others have tried to ban bio weapons' so when one accidently or otherwise uses one. what is the "world " going to do?

I do not know how or why people want to be fearful and miserable. I think some actually enjoy the process of being unhappy. It's a shame.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I do, Someone dying at 20 and not having an opportunity to live and find happiness over someone who's lived a long life and might have realized their dreams, got married enjoyed the comfort of a family and such. Yeah big difference IMO.

Don't let anyone call you like, a sociopath for that.

This was society's default position 365 days ago.

 

[molon labe]

Heart attacks and auto collisions aren't contagious, and there's no comparison between flu numbers and covid numbers.

There is a law about seat belts enforced to save lives though.

The point was refuting a sentiment that people are desensitized to COVID rather than just being pragmatic about it. Deaths happen for varieties of reasons but are A) not sensationalized and B) common knowledge. The flu is a great example because it has similar tendencies - and it is contagious. There are variants/strands every year - all of which have really scary names....so if you were to put said name every single year with a death counter next to it, people would react differently than they typically do each flu season - even though it's deadly for select individuals.

Seat belts have been proven to save lives in certain situations. Fact. Masks, stay at home orders, social distancing, and voting and ordering by mail HAVE NOT. That's the entire premise. Florida and California could not be further apart on governments nor COVID steps - yet even taking populations into consideration - Florida is better off during COVID. What I was saying is that nobody has a damn clue as to how the thing spreads - so creating blanket laws and restrictions just to make people feel better is no different than duck and cover nuclear drills. Let people decide how they want to go about doing business until you have concrete proof that measure A or B actually makes a difference (and even then people should be free to choose how to react to that - businesses as well).