GDT: Facing Extinction: Cats vs. Blue Sweaters

[jrockett1096]

Agreed. Guds is still very young for his player type. Chris Pronger was a common comparison when Guds was drafted and even CP was -33 in his first 3 NHL seasons.

He wasn't drafted to be an offensive stud. He was drafted as a tough, stay at home defenseman that could chip in 20 points a season. At this point, I think he is on the right path to being top 2/3 d-man. Go look at tape from his first season. The guy looked like he couldn't even skate. Now you see him confidently handle the puck, even join the rush at times. His skating is night and day difference.

I'm with you ATF though, look at the environment these players are put into. The scrubs and 4th liners and has beens that they learn from. I mean Huberdeau played with Drew Shore and Peter freaking Mueller in his first season. It's obvious these guys aren't being bred in the right environment. As I said in my above post, Bjugs had one of the longest stints between being drafted and putting on a Panthers sweater and he may very well turn out to be the best pick in franchise history. Whether or not the wait is a factor, it's tough to say.

With regards to Hubs, I am also much more concerned with him than Guds. Guds will start to round out to the player he will be next season and we will continue to see a progression. I like Guds and I think he has a lot more to show at this level. Hubs I don't know. As others have said, he's playing such uninspired hockey. He does is stupid fancy dekes that work 1/10 times, and there is just no hustle in him. He looks disinterested, and I wouldn't care about floating if he scored but he's not contributing to the team in any way, which is the most alarming thing IMO.

Hubs has been frustrating to say the least but I want to see what one more, full off season of training can do for him. If he comes out the same in the first couple months of next season, then it's time to start calling a spade a spade and realizing we have just another floating 15 goal scorer. I really, REALLY hope that's not the case.

I agree with everything you said and its very interesting how Bjugstad's time in college has rounded out his game.

Instead of the league wearing on him as the season has gone by, Bjugstad has gotten stronger and he is the one wearing teams out. There will be no sophomore slump with him because he has strong physical gifts to go along with a rounded game he clearly has been developing those years in college.

I wish we could have done the same with Barkov and had him develop some in the AHL but he was so physically gifted and sadly it could be seen he was our best 2 way player on the team so he got the fast track.

Huberdeau needed I think more time in the AHL to develop his game and build strength. He scored a lot of points early last season and once the league got a sniff of his game and was scouted properly its been lights out ever since. All that fancy stick work is useless if everybody knows you can't skate past anyone. A little shoulder and the puck is out of the zone. He has a nice instinct for finding lanes to get behind defenseman and spring himself for breakaways but he is no Pavel Bure by no means. He needs to find a game that he can consistently play and be a threat most shifts INSIDE the offensive zone and not looking for long passes and trying to stickhandle by a large dman on the rush all the time. I think his injury and not getting the time to learn this game in the pro level has hurt him severely. He is playing a junior game in the NHL and he is getting dominated most nights.

To summarize we have to do something about how we bring up players. We have been fast tracking every kid with any glimmer of talent and most of these guys have struggled or have not developed properly at all. Bjugstad is the perfect example how a properly developed player can have great success in the NHL and we have done a great disservice our young players such as Kulikov, Guds, Huberdeau and so many others from before.

 

[angry_treefrog]

I rofl'ed at this 1st line of GR's article this morning....

The Panthers' special teams have been problematic all year. Saturday, it was ridiculous how bad things got.

http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flap...dont-do-much-in-6-3-loss-to-blue-jackets.html

Seems like GR has reached the end of his rope as well.
Read more here: http://miamiherald.typepad.com/flap...n-6-3-loss-to-blue-jackets.html#storylink=cpy​

 

[RainingRats]

Dude I agree with a lot of what you've said, but clearly you do not remember the 2010 draft very well.

Fowler plummeted out of the top 10. Teams saw something in him that made them stay away. 3 of the top 10 picks from that year aren't even in the NHL right now, and 7 of the top 15 aren't in the NHL.

You don't seem to realize how drafts work. Most players don't hit. That's just the way it is. I understand your frustration because trust me, I'm pretty pissed myself, but it's really ****ing easy to sit here 4 years later and dictate what the team "should've done".

8 teams after us passed on Fowler. There must've been some reason for that. The guy was a projected top-5 pick that dropped to 12th. Last guy to plummet like that in the 1st round was Angelo Esposito and look how he turned out. Fowler has turned into a great defenseman but there was obviously something about him that MANY teams just didn't like.

We also got Nick Bjugstad at 19th OVERALL! That is insane considering he's shaping up to be a top-5 pick in that draft.

I also remember when Howden was picked and how happy people were. The kid has unreal speed and that is easily the most translatable talent you can have in the NHL. Unfortunately he hasn't panned out.

Maybe it's time we started thinking about our DEVELOPMENT of players and not our ****ing draft history. Bjugs went back to college for 3 years and look how he has turned out. We took our time with Hubs but he just isn't getting it right now, so it's tough to say. But maybe our prospect development needs to be worked on.

As others have said, Bjugstad alone makes the 2010 draft a success. I don't think most people around here realize how rare of a talent he is. Kid's gonna finish with 20+ goals in his rookie campaign. The sky is the limit for him at this point.

Completely disagree. When you have a top pick you have to nail it. At best, the jury is still out on Guds. And even if Fowler fell, Anaheim still made the right pick. Just because other teams missed on him doesn't make it any better for us. Also, Skinner and Johansen were reaches where they were picked. That's good scouting. Our scouting/GM failed us. They were unable to use all the picks t their advantage. I can't believe we think it's a success with 5 picks in the top 36 and only one looks like good at this time. I don't expect us to hit on all 5 or even 4 or even 3 really, but if you screw up a top 3 pick, you've pretty much failed.

We traded away quality assets at the time to get more picks to "build through the draft" and when 1 out of your first 5 picks, all in the top 36 where some very very good players were taken and we only got one (one who looks to be a stud/first liner) that's a failure. People wonder why we haven't made progress since Tallon took over and this draft is why. The 2010 draft could have been a turning point for our franchise.

Howden is at best a third line winger at the NHL level. BFD, you can sign a dozen of them in free agency. At the time, he was projected to be a third line guy. That's a waste of a pick. We traded Gregory Campbell who is 100X better than Howden in the bottom 6.


Basically, we moved quality assets at the time to get more picks and those picks haven't made us better. They could have if Tallon and Co didn't fail at the draft.

 

[vendetta]

Completely disagree. When you have a top pick you have to nail it. At best, the jury is still out on Guds. And even if Fowler fell, Anaheim still made the right pick. Just because other teams missed on him doesn't make it any better for us. Also, Skinner and Johansen were reaches where they were picked. That's good scouting. Our scouting/GM failed us. They were unable to use all the picks t their advantage. I can't believe we think it's a success with 5 picks in the top 36 and only one looks like good at this time. I don't expect us to hit on all 5 or even 4 or even 3 really, but if you screw up a top 3 pick, you've pretty much failed.

We traded away quality assets at the time to get more picks to "build through the draft" and when 1 out of your first 5 picks, all in the top 36 where some very very good players were taken and we only got one (one who looks to be a stud/first liner) that's a failure. People wonder why we haven't made progress since Tallon took over and this draft is why. The 2010 draft could have been a turning point for our franchise.

Howden is at best a third line winger at the NHL level. BFD, you can sign a dozen of them in free agency. At the time, he was projected to be a third line guy. That's a waste of a pick. We traded Gregory Campbell who is 100X better than Howden in the bottom 6.


Basically, we moved quality assets at the time to get more picks and those picks haven't made us better. They could have if Tallon and Co didn't fail at the draft.

Sorry but u r wrong... Go look at how many first rounders don't even become nhl regulars... If howden becomes a good 3rd liner where he was picked that is a hit!!! Jugs at 19 is looking to be a steal and debate all u want about guds at 3 but that pick could have been worse just as easy as could have been better! Guds still isn't a finished product and will be a damn fine 3-4 d man solid defensive stud when our core is older in 2-3 years...

 

[vendetta]

I agree with everything you said and its very interesting how Bjugstad's time in college has rounded out his game.

Instead of the league wearing on him as the season has gone by, Bjugstad has gotten stronger and he is the one wearing teams out. There will be no sophomore slump with him because he has strong physical gifts to go along with a rounded game he clearly has been developing those years in college.

I wish we could have done the same with Barkov and had him develop some in the AHL but he was so physically gifted and sadly it could be seen he was our best 2 way player on the team so he got the fast track.

Huberdeau needed I think more time in the AHL to develop his game and build strength. He scored a lot of points early last season and once the league got a sniff of his game and was scouted properly its been lights out ever since. All that fancy stick work is useless if everybody knows you can't skate past anyone. A little shoulder and the puck is out of the zone. He has a nice instinct for finding lanes to get behind defenseman and spring himself for breakaways but he is no Pavel Bure by no means. He needs to find a game that he can consistently play and be a threat most shifts INSIDE the offensive zone and not looking for long passes and trying to stickhandle by a large dman on the rush all the time. I think his injury and not getting the time to learn this game in the pro level has hurt him severely. He is playing a junior game in the NHL and he is getting dominated most nights.

To summarize we have to do something about how we bring up players. We have been fast tracking every kid with any glimmer of talent and most of these guys have struggled or have not developed properly at all. Bjugstad is the perfect example how a properly developed player can have great success in the NHL and we have done a great disservice our young players such as Kulikov, Guds, Huberdeau and so many others from before.

Not sure how guds and hubs were rushed... They both went to junior after drafted and had nothing left to prove there the second year... Too young for ahl so the only spot for them was nhl... Sure they could have been more sheltered and played in more suitable roles but I think that speaks more to not being able to sign top players due to financial restraints... Plus guds has a playoff series under his belt and looked damn fine in that role... All the other prospects have had NCAA time and ahl time so I don't see how any were rushed

 

[EnforceTheLaus]

Not sure how guds and hubs were rushed... They both went to junior after drafted and had nothing left to prove there the second year... Too young for ahl so the only spot for them was nhl... Sure they could have been more sheltered and played in more suitable roles but I think that speaks more to not being able to sign top players due to financial restraints... Plus guds has a playoff series under his belt and looked damn fine in that role... All the other prospects have had NCAA time and ahl time so I don't see how any were rushed

Agree completely. Though it does beg to question that the reason we have so many NCAA prospects is financial restraints? Seems like Tallon could've known/ was told that we couldn't get top talent and went with NCAA kids knowing they could be developed off the Cats' dime considering the CHL age restrictions.

 

[angry_treefrog]

Agree completely. Though it does beg to question that the reason we have so many NCAA prospects is financial restraints? Seems like Tallon could've known/ was told that we couldn't get top talent and went with NCAA kids knowing they could be developed off the Cats' dime considering the CHL age restrictions.

Excellent point - seems very plausible.