FA/Trade Thread 2014-15 Season V.11 - Trade Deadline Approaching

[mydnyte]

Its possible.

But I hope most of our fan base is intelligent enough to understand that this move would present much more positive than negative outside of point production.

But thing fan base constantly proves me wrong. Lol

a combo of your post followed up with

Joffrey Lupul @RealJLupul 59m
BREAKING: TOR trades Joffrey Lupul to the LA Kings for... Just kidding, but now that I got your attention, RT this for #BellLetsTalk.

Lupes with the super psych job!!

 

[SprDaVE]

Another 2 seasons at $3.7m.

This rumour doesn't make any sense from a Blues perspective. We have to give extensions to Tarasenko, Schwartz, Lehterä, Backes, Gunnarsson, Allen and Jaškin in the next 18 months. When Berglund gets moved it would be to free up salary to deal with those salary increases, adding long term salary is pretty unlikely.

Trades rarely ever make sense in Leaf land... until they happen.

 

[SprDaVE]

Lupes with the super psych job!!

That tweet is from a parody account.

The real Lupul is @JLupul (notice the verified blue checkmark).

 

[mydnyte]

That tweet is from a parody account.

The real Lupul is @JLupul (notice the verified blue checkmark).

lol, nice catch... it was retweeted by a few people i follow (i dont actually follow lupes anymore, he posted too many selfies)

 

[GoodNewfieBoy]

This organization needs to get into the habit of drafting, developing and keeping their own home grown talent. That's why I believe it's so important to get Nazzy locked up long term.

 

[jmart21]

Chuck,

Is there any chance Franson isn't moved?
They've invested a great deal of time in him and he looks like he's a homegrown, top 4 dman.

Interesting to see how they value him.

 

[Budsfan]

This organization needs to get into the habit of drafting, developing and keeping their own home grown talent. That's why I believe it's so important to get Nazzy locked up long term.

I agree if he would sign a contract similar to Bozak's however it's out there again, that he wants to be paid 5.5-6 mill and that's a first line centers kind of money and he is not a first line center IMO but over the next month or so, he will be given the chace to prove he is, a 1st line center and if he does ok, so much the better but if he doesn't, I don't want to be stuck with an over paid 2nd line center, with an onerous untradable contract.

 

[Oskar The Groucho]

Chuck,

Is there any chance Franson isn't moved?
They've invested a great deal of time in him and he looks like he's a homegrown, top 4 dman.

Interesting to see how they value him.

We do not have the cap space to keep Franson, Phaneuf and Gardiner we would need to move either one

 

[jmart21]

We do not have the cap space to keep Franson, Phaneuf and Gardiner we would need to move either one

Yes, this is obvious/was assumed.

Edit: For me, it's clear that Dion is gone. I think we can all agree on that. But Franson might be a tougher call for management.

 

[Durrr]

Do you read, I am not going to repeat what I said in the post. INJURY. If Franson is hurt, there goes that asset. From a risk management POV. If the pick is on the table, just do it. Bank the asset.

Then you're likley not getting a first or top dollar, that's how it works. I saw what you said, but you asked what they were waiting for and I told you, it's called value. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you don't think that a deal would have already been done if it was on the table? It simply isn't yet.

 

[Durrr]

Yes, this is obvious/was assumed.

Edit: For me, it's clear that Dion is gone. I think we can all agree on that. But Franson might be a tougher call for management.

Franson is as good as gone, it's already been reported that the Leafs cannot meet his expectations.

 

[613Leafer]

Then you're likley not getting a first or top dollar, that's how it works. I saw what you said, but you asked what they were waiting for and I told you, it's called value. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you don't think that a deal would have already been done if it was on the table? It simply isn't yet.

Vanek got more value last season early on (1st + 2nd + Moulson) than he did at the trade deadline (Collberg + conditional 2nd).

Deadline doesn't necessarily drive prices up, and you could argue that some teams might be willing to pay more if they can get the player for an extra month.

 

[Durrr]

Vanek got more value last season early on (1st + 2nd + Moulson) than he did at the trade deadline (Collberg + conditional 2nd).

Deadline doesn't necessarily drive prices up, and you could argue that some teams might be willing to pay more if they can get the player for an extra month.

He got more early in the season because he gives more value earlier in the season to a bubble team, improving that team's chances to make the post season. I'm not going to debate that this isn't the case for Franson, because it still is, but imo he isn't going to be added in the hopes that he becomes a central piece in a winning team (like Vanek was). No bubble team is going to give away a pick that could become a lottery ticket for Franson, it will be the contenders who enter a bidding war for him that will net us a 1st pick, otherwise you likley see a conditional second based on either A. him resigning, or B. playoff round achieved.

 

[613Leafer]

He got more early in the season because he gives more value earlier in the season to a bubble team, improving that team's chances to make the post season. I'm not going to debate that this isn't the case for Franson, because it still is, but imo he isn't going to be added in the hopes that he becomes a central piece in a winning team (like Vanek was). No bubble team is going to give away a pick that could become a lottery ticket for Franson, it will be the contenders who enter a bidding war for him that will net us a 1st pick.

We also traded Kaberle/Versteeg well before the deadline to contenders, and got good value for both of them.

 

[Durrr]

We also traded Kaberle/Versteeg well before the deadline to contenders, and got good value for both of them.

I'm not saying it's not doable, I'm just saying it's a different situation from my point of view. The obvious reason to why he hasn't been dealt is because there hasn't been an offer that was good enough, because at this point their is literally no benefit to keeping him on the roster. Injuries, decline in play, the effect on the teams overall standing, etc all say he should be dealt ASAP.

 

[Antropovsky]

Chuck,

Is there any chance Franson isn't moved?
They've invested a great deal of time in him and he looks like he's a homegrown, top 4 dman.

Interesting to see how they value him.

.. have you not been reading these boards at all? Franson is probably the most talked about trade piece in the NHL, and has been for weeks now.

 

[jmart21]

.. have you not been reading these boards at all? Franson is probably the most talked about trade piece in the NHL, and has been for weeks now.

yes, I realize that.

I'm simply pondering the thought - is there any shred in management that wants to try and keep him? Which I think is a perfectly fair question.

 

[thewave]

He got more early in the season because he gives more value earlier in the season to a bubble team, improving that team's chances to make the post season. I'm not going to debate that this isn't the case for Franson, because it still is, but imo he isn't going to be added in the hopes that he becomes a central piece in a winning team (like Vanek was). No bubble team is going to give away a pick that could become a lottery ticket for Franson, it will be the contenders who enter a bidding war for him that will net us a 1st pick, otherwise you likley see a conditional second based on either A. him resigning, or B. playoff round achieved.

A 40pt pace top hitting big physical defender is very much as important as a Vanek. Considering its a D position 40pts is like a 60pt forward in value. Franson is kind of a big deal and that's why the talk is non stop. HFBoards posters from other teams say he isn't even worth a second. I punched my way through the main board thread on Franson insisting we should keep him and if not his value is absolutely a 1st+ even if a rental, later on the media basically confirmed my speculations of his value.

Franson is not some joke piece and neither is Dion if either leave town! These are hockey players we are talking about here and I cringe at the talks of Dion for a late 1st only or a 2nd and prospect plus a dump. Those values are so off base it's not even funny.

For instance if the leafs did Dion for Semin silly deal but the cap swap is even. I would be saying ok great now add a 1st, good prospect and a 3rd to that.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Then you're likley not getting a first or top dollar, that's how it works. I saw what you said, but you asked what they were waiting for and I told you, it's called value. You can't have your cake and eat it too, you don't think that a deal would have already been done if it was on the table? It simply isn't yet.

If the Leafs got a late first for Franson, and there were some discussion on radio he could. I wouldn't wait, there would not be a better offer IMO.

Truth is, I would accept a 2nd rd pick.

 

[Durrr]

A 40pt pace top hitting big physical defender is very much as important as a Vanek. Considering its a D position 40pts is like a 60pt forward in value. Franson is kind of a big deal and that's why the talk is non stop. HFBoards posters from other teams say he isn't even worth a second. I punched my way through the main board thread on Franson insisting we should keep him and if not his value is absolutely a 1st+ even if a rental, later on the media basically confirmed my speculations of his value.

Franson is not some joke piece and neither is Dion if either leave town! These are hockey players we are talking about here and I cringe at the talks of Dion for a late 1st only or a 2nd and prospect plus a dump. Those values are so off base it's not even funny.

For instance if the leafs did Dion for Semin silly deal but the cap swap is even. I would be saying ok great now add a 1st, good prospect and a 3rd to that.

This board is pretty ridiculous overall, not only do leaf fans undervalue their pieces, but the rest of the board does as well.

I would not advocate trading Dion for nothing, but at this point if you want to build a team properly, there isn't much you can do with Kessel/Dion except trade them. They bring this team into the bubble region, but we have no way of adding another significant player to bring us over the top without trading one away due to their production and cap hits. Pretty ****** situation we find ourselves in, and no one to blame but management.

As for Franson, I would like to agree. Problem with him vs a Vanek or Kabs, is that this is really his first year putting up this type of overall impact. Last year he was awful in a defensive role on both ends of the ice, and the year before he was a 3rd pairing defender. Do all teams want to throw assets and cap at a player who is all over the map like that? If this were a business investment, Franson would be the type of business I would try and stay away from due to unpredictable earnings and unstable growth, and I suspect the Leafs saw him the same way due to the contracts they've handed him. .

 

[thewave]

If the Leafs got a late first for Franson, and there were some discussion on radio he could. I wouldn't wait, there would not be a better offer IMO.

1st and good prospect no problem. Conditional signing pick as well.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

1st and good prospect no problem. Conditional signing pick as well.

Detroit acquired Kyle Quincey for a first. Granted it is not the same draft, but I can see Franson fetching a first. A right handed shooting D man. yep.

 

[thewave]

This board is pretty ridiculous overall, not only do leaf fans undervalue their pieces, but the rest of the board does as well.

I would not advocate trading Dion for nothing, but at this point if you want to build a team properly, there isn't much you can do with Kessel/Dion except trade them. They bring this team into the bubble region, but we have no way of adding another significant player to bring us over the top without trading one away due to their production and cap hits. Pretty ****** situation we find ourselves in, and no one to blame but management.

As for Franson, I would like to agree. Problem with him vs a Vanek or Kabs, is that this is really his first year putting up this type of overall impact. Last year he was awful in a defensive role on both ends of the ice, and the year before he was a 3rd pairing defender. Do all teams want to throw assets and cap at a player who is all over the map like that? If this were a business investment, Franson would be the type of business I would try and stay away from due to unpredictable earnings and unstable growth .

I understand your last point but hockey is a sport of riding the hot hands. When it comes down to it the hot hand of Franson this season gives you a better chance of a contender being put over the top. They want a cup they planned for this and have the organization depth to pad there chances. Franson is the kicker, Kaberle no matter what Boston fans said helped put them over the top. His point totals in the PO were about the same as Chara etc. it helped, they won and for it hindsight will remain they would do the Kaberle trade again.

 

[Durrr]

I understand your last point but hockey is a sport of riding the hot hands. When it comes down to it the hot hand of Franson this season gives you a better chance of a contender being put over the top. They want a cup they planned for this and have the organization depth to pad there chances. Franson is the kicker, Kaberle no matter what Boston fans said helped put them over the top. His point totals in the PO were about the same as Chara etc. it helped!

In the short term yes, I was just trying to point out why I thought Franson was different then Vanek or Kaberle in terms of value. Both of those players were traded with the intention of the receiving team attempting to resign them, where as I'm sure many teams are very unsure if resigning Franson to a large UFA deal is the right move, and thus unsure if it is appropriate to pay up assets to get him (if the longer term fit isn't there). That, to me, is the difference between a mid-high (conditional) 1st + prospect, or just a conditional 2nd/1st at the TD for a rental.

 

[thewave]

In the short term yes, I was just trying to point out why I thought Franson was different then Vanek or Kaberle in terms of value. Both of those players were traded with the intention of the receiving team attempting to resign them, where as I'm sure many teams are very unsure if resigning Franson to a large UFA deal is the right move, and thus unsure if it is appropriate to pay up assets to get him (if the longer term fit isn't there). That, to me, is the difference between a mid-high (conditional) 1st + prospect, or just a conditional 2nd/1st at the TD for a rental.

Then you can look to Cali and say. We either have to get him... Or neutralize him because let's face it he is Cali bound and those teams are damn stiff competition.

Don't kid yourself here, Franson is a force to be reckoned with. He has all the reasons to do everything in his power to win and he is not letting up on his pay day.