F Riley Heidt - Prince George Cougars, WHL (2023, 64th, MIN)

[landy92mack29]

I'd be absolutely floored if he made the NHL team next season. Which would mean he's forced back into the WHL, a league where he's currently scoring 2 points per game. Exceptional status or not, it's basically the same situation as Wright. He's outgrown the WHL, it doesn't serve the player, or the Wild, to have him back there again.

After Wright got granted permission, I thought I read something about it being decided on a case by case basis, possibly coming from Bill Daly himself. I think Heidt has as good a case as anyone, given the number of games/seasons played that I outlined above, and his performance this year.

For more reference, Wright played 156 OHL games, and Heidt has played 201 WHL games (and likely finishes with at least 230+, if not 240+).

no player has ever outgrown the WHL if they don't make the nhl and even then there's cases where they should've been back like with Dach, Korchinski, Sillinger, etc. I don't think he would next year but he's a lot better than Poitras, probably as a 20yr old. But hey some people still buy into the ahl being a development league vs a adjustment league. Teens are much better off playing vs their peers than trying to survive but improve at the same time vs men.

 

[thestonedkoala]

no player has ever outgrown the WHL if they don't make the nhl and even then there's cases where they should've been back like with Dach, Korchinski, Sillinger, etc. I don't think he would next year but he's a lot better than Poitras, probably as a 20yr old. But hey some people still buy into the ahl being a development league vs a adjustment league. Teens are much better off playing vs their peers than trying to survive but improve at the same time vs men.

The biggest issue is that they tend to get 'lazy' and pick up bad habits. Some of the goals that Heidt scored or assisted on, the defense was a joke. Some, to a lot, of his offensive skills may not cut it in the AHL initially. The better players adapt and the younger they are, the better it is.

 

[57special]

I think he’s going to be a very good junior scorer. dont think he has what it takes to be a legit nhl scorer.

Really going out on a limb, here.

 

[57special]

no player has ever outgrown the WHL if they don't make the nhl and even then there's cases where they should've been back like with Dach, Korchinski, Sillinger, etc. I don't think he would next year but he's a lot better than Poitras, probably as a 20yr old. But hey some people still buy into the ahl being a development league vs a adjustment league. Teens are much better off playing vs their peers than trying to survive but improve at the same time vs men.

Couldn't agree more. Guys like Turcotte jumped ship for the pros too early, and their overall development suffered for it. Heidt is not a man child like a Nathan Mackinnon, as big as Dach, or even a guy like Ryan O'Rourke, who was considered a bigger, tougher, more physical player than Heidt in juniors(he played AHL early due to covid shutting down the OHL). ROR looked pretty timid in his first year in the AHL, and is still adjusting to the physicality of the AHL. The AHL is kinder and gentler than it used to be, but make no mistake, it's a tough league filled with men who will do whatever they have to to win, and get noticed. The refs tend to let a lot go, also.

Heidt is average size and strength. He can certainly benefit with another year of playing in the WHL. The extra year of physical maturity is not to be underestimated. It will allow him to better protect himself when he finally does play pro hockey. If he does finish the year scoring at his present rate, then next year he can set himself new goals, whether it be scoring even more points, or shooting more/working on his shot, or being a better two way player. He will still have Pescarak to play with next year, too.

Overwhelming a player when they are not physically or otherwise ready for it is not always a good idea. Nor is sending them away to another continent, in a completely different culture, surrounded by people who speak another language. That's cool for some, usually mature adults who have a yen to experience such things, but teens like Heidt are laser focussed on being hockey players, not history and world culture.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

He's not getting into the AHL a year early. Savoie tried to use the games played argument, and it didn't work.

Wright got the exemption because he was Exceptional Status, and one of the benefits of Exceptional Status is allowing that, if the player is not yet in the NHL.

 

[AKL]

Couldn't agree more. Guys like Turcotte jumped ship for the pros too early, and their overall development suffered for it. Heidt is not a man child like a Nathan Mackinnon, as big as Dach, or even a guy like Ryan O'Rourke, who was considered a bigger, tougher, more physical player than Heidt in juniors(he played AHL early due to covid shutting down the OHL). ROR looked pretty timid in his first year in the AHL, and is still adjusting to the physicality of the AHL. The AHL is kinder and gentler than it used to be, but make no mistake, it's a tough league filled with men who will do whatever they have to to win, and get noticed. The refs tend to let a lot go, also.

Heidt is average size and strength. He can certainly benefit with another year of playing in the WHL. The extra year of physical maturity is not to be underestimated. It will allow him to better protect himself when he finally does play pro hockey. If he does finish the year scoring at his present rate, then next year he can set himself new goals, whether it be scoring even more points, or shooting more/working on his shot, or being a better two way player. He will still have Pescarak to play with next year, too.

Overwhelming a player when they are not physically or otherwise ready for it is not always a good idea. Nor is sending them away to another continent, in a completely different culture, surrounded by people who speak another language. That's cool for some, usually mature adults who have a yen to experience such things, but teens like Heidt are laser focussed on being hockey players, not history and world culture.

Give it one more year in the WHL, he'll still be the same size he is now, with the same amount of experience against grown men as he has now. An extra year scoring 2 points per game in a league that doesn't know what proper defense is isn't going to help him make that jump. He's already playing in every situation in Prince George.

Offensively he's in the same spot Stankoven was, but a year sooner in his development. He's ahead of Savoie, also a year sooner. Ahead of Peyton Krebs a year sooner. The last time a guy had a season this good in the WHL and then went back the next year was Sam Steel, and he saw his production plummet, and ended up becoming nothing worth noting. I could just as easily make the case that going back to a kids league that he already reached the pinnacle of at 19 stunted his development because it was a year of no challenges, a wasted year of development. He didn't vastly improve his shot, his defense, or anything else, he was stuck in a hamster wheel.

If this was a pedestrian season by D+1 standards (1.5ppg, roughly what Savoie was at last year and he still started his AHL career with 5 points in 6 games), I'd be all for sending him back. But the WHL is clearly not challenging enough for him, and you develop skills by being challenged. The only things you develop in a situation where you have to make your own challenges are bad habits. If you summit Denali, you don't keep climbing Denali to see all the different ways you can climb Denali, you move on to a taller, tougher mountain.

 

[57special]

Give it one more year in the WHL, he'll still be the same size he is now, with the same amount of experience against grown men as he has now. An extra year scoring 2 points per game in a league that doesn't know what proper defense is isn't going to help him make that jump. He's already playing in every situation in Prince George.

Offensively he's in the same spot Stankoven was, but a year sooner in his development. He's ahead of Savoie, also a year sooner. Ahead of Peyton Krebs a year sooner. The last time a guy had a season this good in the WHL and then went back the next year was Sam Steel, and he saw his production plummet, and ended up becoming nothing worth noting. I could just as easily make the case that going back to a kids league that he already reached the pinnacle of at 19 stunted his development because it was a year of no challenges, a wasted year of development. He didn't vastly improve his shot, his defense, or anything else, he was stuck in a hamster wheel.

If this was a pedestrian season by D+1 standards (1.5ppg, roughly what Savoie was at last year and he still started his AHL career with 5 points in 6 games), I'd be all for sending him back. But the WHL is clearly not challenging enough for him, and you develop skills by being challenged. The only things you develop in a situation where you have to make your own challenges are bad habits. If you summit Denali, you don't keep climbing Denali to see all the different ways you can climb Denali, you move on to a taller, tougher mountain.

A year makes a huge difference in a young man's body. It's not like there aren't bigger, stronger players in the WHL as is. It really makes no difference what we think, though, as the AHL simply isn't an option, and I will be really surprised if he makes the NHL team over Marat, Yurov, Ohgren, Bankier, etc..

He might decide to try out the EU, but going over there might be more trouble than it's worth for him.

I see a smart, skilled player in Heidt, but not one who is too strong and fast for the league.

 

[AKL]

A year makes a huge difference in a young man's body. It's not like there aren't bigger, stronger players in the WHL as is. It really makes no difference what we think, though, as the AHL simply isn't an option, and I will be really surprised if he makes the NHL team over Marat, Yurov, Ohgren, Bankier, etc..

He might decide to try out the EU, but going over there might be more trouble than it's worth for him.

I see a smart, skilled player in Heidt, but not one who is too strong and fast for the league.

And I think there's no reason the AHL shouldn't be an option. If he ends up needing to go back to the CHL after a stint in the AHL, fine, but there should be an option to try it out for a player in Heidt's position. He may not be the strongest or fastest player in the WHL, but those are just singular aspects of what makes a player a whole. And again, an extra year goes by and he still won't be the strongest or fastest player in the WHL, so it's not something worth waiting for.

The transfer agreement provides no value to the player or the NHL team who could otherwise have the choice between the NHL, the AHL or the CHL, depending on where they deem the player is at. And maybe the Wild would think Heidt should be back in the CHL next year anyway, but the player and team should have the option for the AHL.

Ultimately my point is that we need to stop pretending the black and white nature of the transfer agreement is a good thing in every case. There needs to be exceptions at times if there are going to be rules. Especially considering there aren't restrictions like this on players drafted out of any other league.

 

[MrCreamm]

I think redditors in general, tend to overvalue the AHL too much, as they see it as the best development league if they're not a physical beast at 18 like MacKinnon who can go straight to the NHL. Too many fans want their prospects to try to jump the gun into the AHL, and aren't prepared for the physicality. I think the AHL has benefitted Wright more than the OHL, but he seems fairly physically read, and has improved quite a bit since his rookie pre-season.

Heidt turns 19 this March, I really don't think it'd be the best idea for him to somehow go to the AHL, especially if he just ends up playing a limited role where he has to play a more risk averse style of hockey. I think either way the cons of him lighting up the WHL another year isn't terrible, it's not like he can't become more creative and improve his skills. I do think though if he made the AHL next year, in this fantasy scenario, it's possible some of the negative outcomes are that he has to play a checking role, take longer to physically adjust, and become less confident.

If he lights up the CHL another year, the worst thing is he probably continues some junior habits, and even then good players still have to adapt to the pro leagues. Even Bedard took a couple games to figure out what ways he can/can't attack in the NHL and is still learning that, although I think he pretty much gets it now. I think due to his size being 5'11, aprox 180, another year in the CHL won't be a burden and is actually the best route for him.

I guess ideally from a purely developmental standpoint, the transfer rules would allow him to play in the NHL and AHL then send him to the CHL if they want, but currently that's not how it works.

 

[kyle44]

A year makes a huge difference in a young man's body. It's not like there aren't bigger, stronger players in the WHL as is. It really makes no difference what we think, though, as the AHL simply isn't an option, and I will be really surprised if he makes the NHL team over Marat, Yurov, Ohgren, Bankier, etc..

He might decide to try out the EU, but going over there might be more trouble than it's worth for him.

I see a smart, skilled player in Heidt, but not one who is too strong and fast for the league.

I can't fathom a situation where Prince George would let the one of the best players in the WHL walk for free.

 

[GAGLine]

Ultimately my point is that we need to stop pretending the black and white nature of the transfer agreement is a good thing in every case. There needs to be exceptions at times if there are going to be rules. Especially considering there aren't restrictions like this on players drafted out of any other league.

If they make exceptions, they might as well do away with the rule entirely, as the exceptions are the ones the CHL is trying to keep.

The only way it can work is if they agree upon some form of compensation for the CHL team to release the player early.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

And I think there's no reason the AHL shouldn't be an option. If he ends up needing to go back to the CHL after a stint in the AHL, fine, but there should be an option to try it out for a player in Heidt's position. He may not be the strongest or fastest player in the WHL, but those are just singular aspects of what makes a player a whole. And again, an extra year goes by and he still won't be the strongest or fastest player in the WHL, so it's not something worth waiting for.

The transfer agreement provides no value to the player or the NHL team who could otherwise have the choice between the NHL, the AHL or the CHL, depending on where they deem the player is at. And maybe the Wild would think Heidt should be back in the CHL next year anyway, but the player and team should have the option for the AHL.

Ultimately my point is that we need to stop pretending the black and white nature of the transfer agreement is a good thing in every case. There needs to be exceptions at times if there are going to be rules. Especially considering there aren't restrictions like this on players drafted out of any other league.

Then the NHL will have to pay transfer fees to the CHL franchises to cover the lost value from said CHL franchises losing top players to the A.

Additionally, taking some of the best players out of the CHL will weaken each league even more, so it would harm major junior and those NHL prospects going that route further. If you were to do that, you'd probably have to adjust the import limit from 2 to 3 to help increase quality, and I know that would be a hard sell.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I think it’s extremely impressive to be leading the dub in scoring as an 18year old regardless of situation. That being said, his production is no doubt inflated by playing with some other WHL studs. PG has, currently, 4 players in the top 7 in scoring in the league. Their powerplay is at something like 33%. He’s got good offensive skills, but I don’t think the conversation on him has really changed all that much from when he was drafted. Is the skating, strength, compete combo good enough at his size to make it? He’s not going to be on a grind line.

 

[57special]

I can't fathom a situation where Prince George would let the one of the best players in the WHL walk for free.

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Then the NHL will have to pay transfer fees to the CHL franchises to cover the lost value from said CHL franchises losing top players to the A.

Additionally, taking some of the best players out of the CHL will weaken each league even more, so it would harm major junior and those NHL prospects going that route further. If you were to do that, you'd probably have to adjust the import limit from 2 to 3 to help increase quality, and I know that would be a hard sell.

Which would benefit the richer clubs like Toronto, helping create an uneven playing field, which is the reason we have a salary cap in the first place.

 

[Hockeyville USA]

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Which would benefit the richer clubs like Toronto, helping create an uneven playing field, which is the reason we have a salary cap in the first place.

The transfer fee amount you'd have to pay likely wouldn't be that much. The NHL already props up the CHL as is, the hypothetical likely doesn't create an even further uneven playing field

 

[57special]

I think it’s extremely impressive to be leading the dub in scoring as an 18year old regardless of situation. That being said, his production is no doubt inflated by playing with some other WHL studs. PG has, currently, 4 players in the top 7 in scoring in the league. Their powerplay is at something like 33%. He’s got good offensive skills, but I don’t think the conversation on him has really changed all that much from when he was drafted. Is the skating, strength, compete combo good enough at his size to make it? He’s not going to be on a grind line.

I would also say that HE is a big part of why the team is so good, rather than the other way around. Both Funk and Parascak are getting great looks every game because of his vision and passing abilities.

As for the bolded, are scouts really saying, "Oh we knew he could do this, but we just don't like ___________ (f***ed if i know what)? If so, i would love to hear their reasoning. Not being picked till 63rd after co-leading the WHL in assists, with Bedard, no less, certainly has to be seen as a plus.

 

[57special]

The transfer fee amount you'd have to pay likely wouldn't be that much. The NHL already props up the CHL as is, the hypothetical likely doesn't create an even further uneven playing field

TBH, I don't know much about the finances of CHL clubs. Nabbing an exceptional player off a junior team for 25K seems light, 1M too much. Maybe somewhere around 250K, but I don't know if that would make up for the lost revenue and prestige of competing for a Memorial Cup for the team.

 

[Circulartheory]

I personally was skeptical of Heidt so wasn't too surprised he fell (still had him in 40s). But you can't discount what he's doing. For me who wasn't overly impressed by his points on draft year, there wasn't much that was going to impress but being the #1 scorer in the WHL is definitely a good signal and an impressive feat. It's a strong post-draft statement. Now, we will see what else has to offer as he keeps progressing.

 

[AKL]

If they make exceptions, they might as well do away with the rule entirely, as the exceptions are the ones the CHL is trying to keep.

The only way it can work is if they agree upon some form of compensation for the CHL team to release the player early.

Works for me, considering I couldn't care less about the CHL. Like I said, they're the only ones that benefit from the transfer agreement, and they're the only league that gets that benefit for some reason.

 

[kyle44]

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Which would benefit the richer clubs like Toronto, helping create an uneven playing field, which is the reason we have a salary cap in the first place.

He's under contract with Prince George. He can't just leave to play in Europe unless they release him.

 

[Bubbles]

As for the bolded, are scouts really saying, "Oh we knew he could do this, but we just don't like ___________ (f***ed if i know what)? If so, i would love to hear their reasoning. Not being picked till 63rd after co-leading the WHL in assists, with Bedard, no less, certainly has to be seen as a plus.

Scouts/NHL teams miss all the time. Judd Brackett couldn't believe it when he saw that Heidt was available.

How many GMs missed out on Brayden Point? He had 91 points and was consensus 1st rounder. Not saying they are the same player but the point is that teams/professional scouts miss all the time.

 

[GAGLine]

Works for me, considering I couldn't care less about the CHL. Like I said, they're the only ones that benefit from the transfer agreement, and they're the only league that gets that benefit for some reason.

They are the primary feeder league to the NHL. Last draft, there were 224 players selected. 80 of them came out of the CHL.

If the NHL wants to do away with the rule, they will have to compensate the CHL in some other way.

BTW, the CHL isn't the only league that has age-related rules.

NHL PLAYER TRANSFER AGREEMENT HIGHLIGHTS: NHL AND SWEDEN - Beyond the Glass

Sweden is one of the top countries providing quality hockey players to the NHL. A player transfer agreement guides that relationship.

beyondtheglasshockey.com

Much like the intricacies involved in NHL teams sending young CHL players to the AHL, this Agreement has its own rules that apply to Swedish players. An NHL team may freely send a 1st round draft pick to the AHL. Players selected in the 2nd round or later require consultation with the player’s Swedish team. If a player (not including a 1st round pick) is younger than 24, he should be sent back to Sweden. While the Swedish team could waive its rights to this, the NHL team cannot offer anything of value to entice the Swedish team to do so. In fact, it is the NHL’s position that this could amount to salary circumvention. However, there is nothing stopping the NHL team from speaking with the Swedish team about its intentions.

This was important to the SHA as they wanted young players coming back to Sweden to develop versus playing in the AHL. As part of the negotiations, the SHA gave up this rule applying to all players (including 1st round picks). In exchange, the NHL agreed to increase the required age from 21 to 24.

Maybe the NHL and CHL can agree to exclude 1st round picks from the rule, but the CHL doesn't have the luxury of keeping players until they are 24, so some other form of compensation would be needed.

 

[57special]

He's under contract with Prince George. He can't just leave to play in Europe unless they release him.

Pretty sure he can. Are you saying that if he makes a NHL club, he can't play there because he is under contract to PG?

 

[LeProspector]

Look at Jordan Dumais. Saying he’s too good for the WHL is flat out wrong. Junior scoring doesn’t always equate to success at higher levels. Wild fans should know this with Adam Beckman.

 

[kyle44]

Pretty sure he can. Are you saying that if he makes a NHL club, he can't play there because he is under contract to PG?

Yes, unless he is 20 years old (by Dec. 31 of that season) or has played four CHL seasons (Heidt will be 3 games shy). If a player does not meet these criteria and is not going to be playing in the NHL, they must be sent back to their junior team under the CHL-NHL transfer agreement.