Post-Game Talk (GBU): f*** off refs

[EmeraldCitySabre]

Ok, it's easier to see on that angle. I was just going by the head whiplash I saw on the replay last night, which is what I'm sure the ref saw as well....as paranoid as everyone is about head injuries I can see why the ref would make that call. That's why I would hesitate to call it a bad call. I can see why he called it- it's not egregious. I would even hesitate to call the Larson penalty before that horrible either. Larsson gave him a mini-shove but it was in a dangerous position in terms of Sergachev's proximity to the boards. That's why Sergachev was so pissed when he came back up.

Good penalty or bad, what the Sabres can control is how they react and I hated the temper tantrum Eichel threw after that penalty.

Come on man, both of those calls we're absolutely terrible calls, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

Ugly: Now we go on a 5 game road trip. Sabres are 1-7-2 in last 9 road games.

 

[Not Sure]

Ok, it's easier to see on that angle. I was just going by the head whiplash I saw on the replay last night, which is what I'm sure the ref saw as well....as paranoid as everyone is about head injuries I can see why the ref would make that call. That's why I would hesitate to call it a bad call. I can see why he called it- it's not egregious. I would even hesitate to call the Larson penalty before that horrible either. Larsson gave him a mini-shove but it was in a dangerous position in terms of Sergachev's proximity to the boards. That's why Sergachev was so pissed when he came back up.

Good penalty or bad, what the Sabres can control is how they react and I hated the temper tantrum Eichel threw after that penalty.

Larsson didn exactly what every player should do in that position. He came up to the pile from behind and instead of railing Sergachev face first into the boards he pushed him sideways into the pile to try and get body position. If Larsson wanted to hurt him he was in a position to do so, instead he showed restraint and got a stick in the mouth as thanks.

It was a bad call by the refs who had already given the Sabres 3 unanswered power plays before putting away the whistle. They didnt want to have penalty differential get out of hand and could have called another half a dozen penalties on the lightning. Its game management plain and simple, they dont want to show bias on the game sheets, and by trying to do that they showed bias on the score sheet.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Nah, we should have made 15 second round draft selections in 4 years, that's realistic /s

We still took 6 more picks in the first 3 rounds than an average team would from 2013-16. The issue is our organizational depth was blown to a billion pieces so that we could tank for the guy who's like 4th in scoring this year from that draft class, and we have never really been able to rebuild it even though every offseason people claim we finally have.

We did all of that for centers, and organizationally, we are running
Eichel
Mittelstadt (22 pt pace)
Sobotka (~12 pt pace)
Larsson
Criscuolo
Asplund
?
?

1st bold - no, but should have traded more of them for the depth they needed to replace, instead of 1st rounders. Instead of going for average depth, TM swung big when he didn't have to when, ironically, the depth he needed could have been drafted with the 1st rounders he traded.

2nd bolded - no, under TM the extra picks were 2nds, 3rds, 5ths and 7ths, with only Cornel (2nd), Pu (3rd) and Glotov (7th) as centers. There was no serious effort to draft an impact C in those years after Reinhart and Eichel. Of course Reinhart isn't a C anymore. In 2013 Compher and Hurley were drafted as quality depth C options. TM traded them away. "Doing it all for centers"...uh, no.

 

[K8fool]

It's been an epic free fall. There hasn't been a team in the history of the sport to be leading the league in November and not make the playoffs. We've fallen out of a playoff spot in two months. That's incredible (lack of Better word).

I get that the team isnt as good as that 10 game win streak advertised, but they've been pitifully bad the last two months. There's no excuse for it.

They are a young team and have proven they can learn from their mistakes (which they have alot to learn from)... Have some patience, I believe the five players involved system of personal resposibility and having the backs of teamates (excellent for evolving league of parity) ...adds more mistakes to wonderful players like Pilut Thompson , Mitts amd Dahlin that also exposes veterans who are frustrated trying to do it all on their own .. The stresk gave them confidence playing with faith in playing as a team against backup goalies and teams that didnt take us seriously.. If they clean up mistakes from last night basically playing with same desire, they will have a real shot at that thing that happens in the middle middle of april.. Mitts and Pom have some chem.. Hopefullt they play well and force Botts to add a toy..They are playing well and not being rewarded.. That crap pass rookie mistake that gave Tampa the tie should be cleaned up etc..

 

[GellMann]

1st bold - no, but should have traded more of them for the depth they needed to replace, instead of 1st rounders. Instead of going for average depth, TM swung big when he didn't have to when, ironically, the depth he needed could have been drafted with the 1st rounders he traded.

2nd bolded - no, under TM the extra picks were 2nds, 3rds, 5ths and 7ths, with only Cornel (2nd), Pu (3rd) and Glotov (7th) as centers. There was no serious effort to draft an impact C in those years after Reinhart and Eichel. Of course Reinhart isn't a C anymore. In 2013 Compher and Hurley were drafted as quality depth C options. TM traded them away. "Doing it all for centers"...uh, no.

There is no way to overstate how much Black Sunday's impact on our center group and our inability to fix it in free agency after drove the decision to rebuild, and then tank in a season where the last place team got a top 2 pick and there were 2 franchise centers available. It was a HUGE factor in our franchise's decision-making.

And the "...uh, no" as an attempt to flourish your point is kid stuff.

 

[CrankyJay]

Dave is a fool if he saw this replay angle and then said this. Jack clearly hit the back of McD’s shoulder with his elbow tucked against his body.

The guy skating backwards shouldn’t get the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

There is no way to overstate how much Black Sunday's impact on our center group and our inability to fix it in free agency after drove the decision to rebuild, and then tank in a season where the last place team got a top 2 pick and there were 2 franchise centers available. It was a HUGE factor in our franchise's decision-making.

And the "...uh, no" as an attempt to flourish your point is kid stuff.

Well trying to say stuff that isn't true is kind of kid stuff.

The original discussion was about how the team (mostly TM) handled re-building, not what led to that point, which is what your last post is about (and I don't disagree with). Some posters, including you, have characterized the blowing of top draft picks (the best chances at acquiring impact players or at the least, quality depth), as the right decision to restock the roster depth that was blown via the tank. Those trades were not done with just "depth" in mind though, but were obviously attempts to acquire impact players and "accelerate the re-build". Re-stocking depth would've cost 2nds and 3rds while drafting more 1sts, but he spent 1sts while drafting more 2nds and 3rds, without actually targeting centers more than other positions, as you falsely stated.

All told, TM had three drafts and drafted a whole two NHL players. The picks he traded away have resulted in more NHL players than he's actually drafted.

 

[BananaSquad]

Botts is playing this right, don’t make a panic move, team is still a year away. Dahlin is 18/19 for Christ sakes lol.

 

[DapperCam]

Botts is playing this right, don’t make a panic move, team is still a year away. Dahlin is 18/19 for Christ sakes lol.

We need to make the playoffs this year, so we can get the losing in the first round out of the way.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Botts is playing this right, don’t make a panic move, team is still a year away. Dahlin is 18/19 for Christ sakes lol.

Fans freak like their window is now. Drafting well with 4 1sts the next two drafts will result in at least two impact players that can contribute in 2-3 seasons. By then all the bad contracts are gone (Pominville, Sheary, Sobotka, Bogosian, Scandella, Hunwick) except maybe Okposo. At the same time, our best players will be 28 or 29 at the oldest (Skinner, Larsson, Girgensons, McCabe) or totally in their prime at age 24-25 (Eichel, Reinhart, Ristolainen, Pilut, Ullmark) or just hitting their prime (Mittelstadt, Thompson, Dahlin). Not counting current prospects like Smith, Nylander, Olofsson, Asplund, Guhle, Borgen, Samuelsson, Laaksonen, and Luukkonen, who are obviously all young.

2-3 years from now is WAY more promising than what the current roster could do with a few middle-six additions between now and 2020.

 

[Panthaz89]

We need to make the playoffs this year, so we can get the losing in the first round out of the way.

I don't think losing in the first round is something you necessarily have to get out of the way you either make them or you don't. Unless we can get someone that's valuable long term stay put and try to work with what's in the system currently. We can start by not putting Sobotka on the ice.

 

[vcv]

Ok, it's easier to see on that angle. I was just going by the head whiplash I saw on the replay last night, which is what I'm sure the ref saw as well....as paranoid as everyone is about head injuries I can see why the ref would make that call. That's why I would hesitate to call it a bad call. I can see why he called it- it's not egregious. I would even hesitate to call the Larson penalty before that horrible either. Larsson gave him a mini-shove but it was in a dangerous position in terms of Sergachev's proximity to the boards. That's why Sergachev was so pissed when he came back up.

Good penalty or bad, what the Sabres can control is how they react and I hated the temper tantrum Eichel threw after that penalty.

You shouldn't because there's no disadvantage to it if you do it sparingly. Some of the better players do it.[/QUOTE]

 

[Aladyyn]

Botts is playing this right, don’t make a panic move, team is still a year away. Dahlin is 18/19 for Christ sakes lol.

Yeah let's be bad for 5 more years, great plan!

 

[sabremike]

We need to make the playoffs this year, so we can get the losing in the first round out of the way.

While I'm not going to argue to make a stupid move there are certainly things that can be done to prevent yet another season going down the toilet. Just standing there and watching a reenactment of the Hindenburg is a horrible idea. This is about the organization's credibility and legitimacy. How could you sell a collapse that would be unprecedented where a team with the best record in the league as late as we did has never failed to make the playoffs? The team blew a 12 point advantage in a little over a month. Do you know how completely insane that is? Do you know how hard it is in the modern NHL to do that even in several months? How can they with a straight face say things are getting so much better if that happens? This would be year 8 of nothing in a league where even the most incompetent and badly run teams seldom go more than half that time without reaching the postseason. Only one team has been worse and that took being owned by a guy who literally had to raid his kid's trusts funds just to keep things going. It's Lucy telling Charlie Brown this time I won't yank the football. People can argue about moves but I don't want to hear that failing to make the playoffs is perfectly acceptable and not a complete and ridiculous failure that would demoralize the hell out of this fanbase.

 

[Snippit]

While I'm not going to argue to make a stupid move there are certainly things that can be done to prevent yet another season going down the toilet. Just standing there and watching a reenactment of the Hindenburg is a horrible idea. This is about the organization's credibility and legitimacy. How could you sell a collapse that would be unprecedented where a team with the best record in the league as late as we did has never failed to make the playoffs? The team blew a 12 point advantage in a little over a month. Do you know how completely insane that is? Do you know how hard it is in the modern NHL to do that even in several months? How can they with a straight face say things are getting so much better if that happens? This would be year 8 of nothing in a league where even the most incompetent and badly run teams seldom go more than half that time without reaching the postseason. Only one team has been worse and that took being owned by a guy who literally had to raid his kid's trusts funds just to keep things going. It's Lucy telling Charlie Brown this time I won't yank the football. People can argue about moves but I don't want to hear that failing to make the playoffs is perfectly acceptable and not a complete and ridiculous failure that would demoralize the hell out of this fanbase.

St.Louis was 2nd in the league last year and ended up missing the playoffs..

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

We need to make the playoffs this year, so we can get the losing in the first round out of the way.

This is now a thing? Someone should have told Vegas.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

While I'm not going to argue to make a stupid move there are certainly things that can be done to prevent yet another season going down the toilet. Just standing there and watching a reenactment of the Hindenburg is a horrible idea. This is about the organization's credibility and legitimacy. How could you sell a collapse that would be unprecedented where a team with the best record in the league as late as we did has never failed to make the playoffs? The team blew a 12 point advantage in a little over a month. Do you know how completely insane that is? Do you know how hard it is in the modern NHL to do that even in several months? How can they with a straight face say things are getting so much better if that happens? This would be year 8 of nothing in a league where even the most incompetent and badly run teams seldom go more than half that time without reaching the postseason. Only one team has been worse and that took being owned by a guy who literally had to raid his kid's trusts funds just to keep things going. It's Lucy telling Charlie Brown this time I won't yank the football. People can argue about moves but I don't want to hear that failing to make the playoffs is perfectly acceptable and not a complete and ridiculous failure that would demoralize the hell out of this fanbase.

Maybe I've been misreading your stuff the last few weeks, but you seem to take it way to personally. It's cringy, just try to breath, it's only a game. A game we aren't even playing in, or professionally involved in.

If you were to actually believe that the Sabres as an organization had no legitimacy you'd look for them to trade Skinner, otherwise what premium UFA would sign with such an outfit?

The previous GM took everything that DR sold out of the team and got nothing productive for it. Nothing at all, Eichel and Reinhart were not proceeds from the sales, they were the team's draft picks. When Buffalo traded RoR and Kane they mulliganed the rebuild. But at least this time they're starting with Reinhart, Eichel and Dahlin. Before they only had Risto.

 

[Aladyyn]

I would be very down for some Murray trades at forward.

 

[Hasek]

Dave is a fool if he saw this replay angle and then said this. Jack clearly hit the back of McD’s shoulder with his elbow tucked against his body.

I missed most of the game. Did Eichel get called for this?
So one guys is skating backwards, putting himself in a possibly dangerous position, while another guy tries to evade him and is called.

 

[Hasek]

I would be very down for some Murray trades at forward.

Oh hell no. I was upset when we acquired both Kane and ROR because we gave up so much. I'm happy Botterill is not the type to unload all his bullets in one shot and is more patient.

 

[Icicle]

Unlike most games during the skid, they’ve looked good the last two games. Just a series of bad bounces and bad penalty calls undermining these efforts. If they continue to play like this I’m not worried about a wild card spot. They can’t regress to what they were doing though.

I do agree we need an upgrade over Sobotka, but that doesn’t mean Botterill is some dismal failure? Or that Elie being the healthy scratch over some AHLer is unbecoming of a GM? Holy hell we have some insufferable fans.

 

[Beerz]

Unlike most games during the skid, they’ve looked good the last two games. Just a series of bad bounces and bad penalty calls undermining these efforts. If they continue to play like this I’m not worried about a wild card spot. They can’t regress to what they were doing though.

I do agree we need an upgrade over Sobotka, but that doesn’t mean Botterill is some dismal failure? Or that Elie being the healthy scratch over some AHLer is unbecoming of a GM? Holy hell we have some insufferable fans.

Nothing Murray traded has amounted to anything to get worked up about with the exception of maybe the 1st for Robin Lehner. People will say ZOMG Colin White even tho we probably take Samsonov with that pick. The Lehner trade was bad from the get so it doesnt really matter but still. Nothing wrong with being aggressive.

I'll take a GM who actually isnt afraid to try and get to next level as opposed to one who just sits on his hands.

 

[Leclerc]

Botts is playing this right, don’t make a panic move

I freaking hate this excuse. What about trading to increase your odds of making playoffs is a panic move? They’d obviously played out of their depth and are now treading water against teams they should be winning against. It isn’t a panic move to want to increase the depth of your team.

They’re playing inconsistently because they are not a well trained team. Botteril and Housely need to have a sit down if they haven't already, and discuss the goal of this season. Is it to make playoffs? Or develop their younger players.

There are teams with young players that are succeeding right now, so why not now? Make a move.

 

[Jim Bob]

I freaking hate this excuse. What about trading to increase your odds of making playoffs is a panic move? They’d obviously played out of their depth and are now treading water against teams they should be winning against. It isn’t a panic move to want to increase the depth of your team.

They’re playing inconsistently because they are not a well trained team.

It's not an excuse, it is a line of thinking.

If you look around the league, most GMs are waiting until closer to the trade deadline to make meaningful moves.

Maybe Botts is being proactive and asking around and other GMs want to wait and see if the market heats up.

It takes two to tango. And it's not like adding Jordan Weal would improve their depth at all.

Strome getting moved by the Yotes is about the only guy that has moved so far this season that I wish the Sabres would have been in on. But, the Sabres didn't have a Schmaltz type player to give up.

 

[Dreakon13]

I freaking hate this excuse. What about trading to increase your odds of making playoffs is a panic move?

Selling the future to win now (ie. 1sts for rentals) is a panic move for a team that is still a ways away from anything serious. No one wants to see them do that. Making a move for the sake of making a move and keeping the fans complacent is also panicking.

Minor moves bring minor returns. The team needs more than minor returns. Major moves are risky for a team in need of both cheap, effective depth and top 6 scoring that four 1st rounders could easily contribute towards. The answer here is patience, both for the right moves to come around and for draft picks to be picked/developed. That 10 game win streak and the idea of playoffs really messed with fans expectations.