F Aito Iguchi - Saitama Warriors, Japan (2021 Draft)

[Huck Cheever]

The top teams in Hokkaido are equivalent to AAA Midget hockey in Canada. I saw all of Ando's games with POE last year. Besides BWC, Northern Alberta Xtreme and Delta Academy none of those E15 CSSHL clubs were better than the top 5 Hokkaido high school teams or Saitama Sakae.

Really doubt that, sorry... but i watch alot more hockey than you

 

[Gordon Graham]

Really doubt that, sorry... but i watch alot more hockey than you

Perhaps you do watch more hockey than I. I have no idea who you are. What I do know is what I've seen. I have a subscription for HockeyTV.com which broadcast every one of POE's games last year which I watched. I've also seen plenty of GTHL AAA hockey live. I posted a clip from 2008, of Saitama Sakae playing a AAA club from Alberta. They played 5 AAA Midget teams and beat 4 of them. That team is nowhere near as strong as Saitama Sakae's current team which is #2 in Japan.

 

[Huck Cheever]

Perhaps you do watch more hockey than I. I have no idea who you are. What I do know is what I've seen. I have a subscription for HockeyTV.com which broadcast every one of POE's games last year which I watched. I've also seen plenty of GTHL AAA hockey live. I posted a clip from 2008, of Saitama Sakae playing a AAA club from Alberta. They played 5 AAA Midget teams and beat 4 of them. That team is nowhere near as strong as Saitama Sakae's current team which is #2 in Japan.

I have a bantam aa team down the street from me and their defence have better gap control than those defenders i seen iguchi deke...

 

[Gordon Graham]

I have a bantam aa team down the street from me and their defence have better gap control than those defenders i seen iguchi deke...

This is AAA Bantam in NA...How is their gap control?

 

[Huck Cheever]

This is AAA Bantam in NA...How is their gap control?

Iguchi's opposition was standing still most of the time and not even tying him up. U can see at the ushl combine defenders control his distance and stick check him way easier.

 

[Gordon Graham]

Iguchi's opposition was standing still most of the time and not even tying him up. U can see at the ushl combine defenders control his distance and stick check him way easier.

Still...AAA Bantam competition. He lit up the combine as well

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Basically every time this thread is bumped, someone has to make it about how superior North American AAA hockey is.

All it does is expose your lack of awareness outside of your backyard and that your bias is clouding your logic.

These kids have literally come over to events with AAA teams/players and competed just fine. It's an indisputable fact. And people still argue it? With claims of AA teams down the street?

I know a lot of Midget AAA players (hell, almost a whole team of them), and I have no doubt every single one of them could make the local Junior B league and the overwhelming majority make Junior A. Only a few will play Major Junior though.

That's called an anecdote. I don't even doubt you on this because I see your location is NB. Unfortunately the Jr. B league and Major Midget league in NB (/PEI) are considered some of the worst standards in Canada and they're perfect candidates to get clobbered from a non-traditional countries top players. But logically, that path isn't common nation-wide.

According to EP there are ~267 Major/Minor Midget AAA teams in Canada alone. If we assume 15 skaters 2 goalies per team, that's ~4539 players. That's only 3 birthyears worth of players.



I've watched midget & bantam hockey long enough to see the vast skill gap. A talented player isn't going to be suddenly shut down in Midget AAA, he just has a couple of adjustments that have to be made and he's fine. How people argue against that is totally beyond me.

 

[Huck Cheever]

Basically every time this thread is bumped, someone has to make it about how superior North American AAA hockey is.

All it does is expose your lack of awareness outside of your backyard and that your bias is clouding your logic.

These kids have literally come over to events with AAA teams/players and competed just fine. It's an indisputable fact. And people still argue it? With claims of AA teams down the street?




That's called an anecdote. I don't even doubt you on this because I see your location is NB. Unfortunately the Jr. B league and Major Midget league in NB (/PEI) are considered some of the worst standards in Canada and they're perfect candidates to get clobbered from a non-traditional countries top players. But logically, that path isn't common nation-wide.

According to EP there are ~267 Major/Minor Midget AAA teams in Canada alone. If we assume 15 skaters 2 goalies per team, that's ~4539 players. That's only 3 birthyears worth of players.



I've watched midget & bantam hockey long enough to see the vast skill gap. A talented player isn't going to be suddenly shut down in Midget AAA, he just has a couple of adjustments that have to be made and he's fine. How people argue against that is totally beyond me.

All players on good AAA bantam and Major midget are capable of playing Jr.b. At the AA level i say about 25% of players on a good team are capable of playing jr.b but most don't want to play because they look at it like a Bush league...

I watch alot of hockey from bantam, major midget, jr b, major jr, and Nhl... trust me

 

[ijuka]

WJC D1B

They got relegated from there last season, did they not? To D2A.

 

[bobby183]

They got relegated from there last season, did they not? To D2A.

U20 Japan team got relegated and will play in D2A the coming season.
Both Iguchi and Yusaku Ando who are turning 16 this year are now put on this U20 team Japan roster. They will leave for Czech with the team for the camp this week. There are some notable young Japanese talents developing around their age group but older players are weak.
Women in Japan seem to do much better in the world stages in many sports including hockey.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

All players on good AAA bantam and Major midget are capable of playing Jr.b. At the AA level i say about 25% of players on a good team are capable of playing jr.b but most don't want to play because they look at it like a Bush league...

I watch alot of hockey from bantam, major midget, jr b, major jr, and Nhl... trust me

You saying you watch a lot of hockey doesn't make me trust you.

You made a 2021 top 31 based on CHL draft results (which literally never pan out to be an accurate projection of top NHL prospects) with some Euros sprinkled in.... and you put Aito on that list. Yet in here you're trying to discredit anything he's done based on poor opponents. What kind of credibility is that? You're hedging your bets.

This reminds me so much of Mathias Emilio Pettersen

 

[Killerjas]

He is not gonna get drafted, he is only commercially interesting to get the game bigger in Japan.

 

[Number 57]

If AAA teams in Japan are this good why are there never any players that come over to at least play in CHL? Why are there very few players that end up playing professionally in Europe? Do they all stop playing when they turn 18?

Midget AAA they are what, 15 or 16 years old? Literally just one year later they can come over to play in CHL. Do they all just fall off in one season? They dissapear?

Most players in Quebec who play Midget AAA are talented enough that you see their names come up pretty often. If they don't make NHL, they'll at least be in the conversation in QMJHL, NCAA, USPORTS, ECHL, any European leagues, etc. Where are all the Japanese players?

I'm not trying to discredit, but if they are so good, why arnt NHL teams taking notice? Or KHL, Switzerland, Sweden?

 

[tealhockey]

It'll be interesting to see how Ando does this year. He wowed them at camp and was assured a roster spot to begin the season. Again, I'm certain there will be an adjustment period, but he is a special player and will be an impact player if not this year then next.

Wow, maybe I am underestimating him, only watched a few games and the level of play is unfamiliar to me. Well I wish him the best of luck either way

 

[tealhockey]

If AAA teams in Japan are this good why are there never any players that come over to at least play in CHL? Why are there very few players that end up playing professionally in Europe? Do they all stop playing when they turn 18?

Midget AAA they are what, 15 or 16 years old? Literally just one year later they can come over to play in CHL. Do they all just fall off in one season? They dissapear?

Most players in Quebec who play Midget AAA are talented enough that you see their names come up pretty often. If they don't make NHL, they'll at least be in the conversation in QMJHL, NCAA, USPORTS, ECHL, any European leagues, etc. Where are all the Japanese players?

I'm not trying to discredit, but if they are so good, why arnt NHL teams taking notice? Or KHL, Switzerland, Sweden?

I don't think anyone said that they are so good. The point is that they aren't so bad.

 

[Kranix]

He is not gonna get drafted, he is only commercially interesting to get the game bigger in Japan.

Just give him a chance. Why wouldn't you want to see a good player develop?

 

[3 Minute Minor]

If AAA teams in Japan are this good why are there never any players that come over to at least play in CHL? Why are there very few players that end up playing professionally in Europe? Do they all stop playing when they turn 18?

Midget AAA they are what, 15 or 16 years old? Literally just one year later they can come over to play in CHL. Do they all just fall off in one season? They dissapear?

Most players in Quebec who play Midget AAA are talented enough that you see their names come up pretty often. If they don't make NHL, they'll at least be in the conversation in QMJHL, NCAA, USPORTS, ECHL, any European leagues, etc. Where are all the Japanese players?

I'm not trying to discredit, but if they are so good, why arnt NHL teams taking notice? Or KHL, Switzerland, Sweden?

Well first of all import rules.

CHL only allows 2 imports per team and teams are happier bringing over some meh player from a top European program rather than taking a chance on a kid from a non-traditional program. CHL teams value those import slots and they don't like taking risks with those picks. I've had the conversation with many people within the CHL about this exact concept. Teams miss out on a ton of players because of it.

Oliver True and Stephane Patry were ‘00s drafted in the 2017 import draft and they were out of the OHL a year later. They came from Denmark & Switzerland so it seems safer. Liam Kirk doesn't even get looked at. A year later Kirk gets picked and he's doing fine in the OHL. But he was in a non-traditional market and who wants to take that risk? Even after being an NHL draft pick, many teams wanted nothing to do with him. Peterborough was one of just 5ish teams that reached out.





I don't think anyone is saying that Japan has a long standing tradition of developing top players. They obviously don't have the numbers of Canada or in your example, even Quebec. Saying 1 or 2 teams can compete in Midget AAA doesn't mean they have 250 QMJHL draft worthy players.

It's also been specific talk about a class of players coming up in the '02-'03 age groups like Sato (Quebec Remparts) Ando (Top scorer in CSSHL E15 among WHL draft picks) and Aito.


Saying 1 or 2 players have potential and that their midget AAA team can compete with some Canadian clubs isn't the same as saying they have hundreds of prospects ready to take over

 

[I am toxic]

Gordon, do you know if Ando has a younger sister competing in rhythmic gymnastics?

 

[bobby183]

Well first of all import rules.

CHL only allows 2 imports per team and teams are happier bringing over some meh player from a top European program rather than taking a chance on a kid from a non-traditional program. CHL teams value those import slots and they don't like taking risks with those picks. I've had the conversation with many people within the CHL about this exact concept. Teams miss out on a ton of players because of it.

Oliver True and Stephane Patry were ‘00s drafted in the 2017 import draft and they were out of the OHL a year later. They came from Denmark & Switzerland so it seems safer. Liam Kirk doesn't even get looked at. A year later Kirk gets picked and he's doing fine in the OHL. But he was in a non-traditional market and who wants to take that risk? Even after being an NHL draft pick, many teams wanted nothing to do with him. Peterborough was one of just 5ish teams that reached out.





I don't think anyone is saying that Japan has a long standing tradition of developing top players. They obviously don't have the numbers of Canada or in your example, even Quebec. Saying 1 or 2 teams can compete in Midget AAA doesn't mean they have 250 QMJHL draft worthy players.

It's also been specific talk about a class of players coming up in the '02-'03 age groups like Sato (Quebec Remparts) Ando (Top scorer in CSSHL E15 among WHL draft picks) and Aito.


Saying 1 or 2 players have potential and that their midget AAA team can compete with some Canadian clubs isn't the same as saying they have hundreds of prospects ready to take over

I agree. Another reason is the money. It's very difficult for most families to finance their kid to go abroad. Most young descent players come from Northern Japan regions where average families make much less than from the big cities. Language is another issue...without a support system to take care of and guide these young non-English speakers it's another hurdle/concern. Most will opt to stay in Japan to get at least educated rather than take that difficult and expensive route to possibly play in CHL or other similar NA leagues.

It is true that seems like there are more talented players developing at 2002 and younger age group recently. Older players have not been as good...which is apparent by watching Japan's Junior and Senior national teams as well as their semi-pro jitsuguodan league games...I would say that they are equivalent to Canadian junior B level at best.

 

[Number 57]

Well first of all import rules.

CHL only allows 2 imports per team and teams are happier bringing over some meh player from a top European program rather than taking a chance on a kid from a non-traditional program. CHL teams value those import slots and they don't like taking risks with those picks. I've had the conversation with many people within the CHL about this exact concept. Teams miss out on a ton of players because of it.

Oliver True and Stephane Patry were ‘00s drafted in the 2017 import draft and they were out of the OHL a year later. They came from Denmark & Switzerland so it seems safer. Liam Kirk doesn't even get looked at. A year later Kirk gets picked and he's doing fine in the OHL. But he was in a non-traditional market and who wants to take that risk? Even after being an NHL draft pick, many teams wanted nothing to do with him. Peterborough was one of just 5ish teams that reached out.





I don't think anyone is saying that Japan has a long standing tradition of developing top players. They obviously don't have the numbers of Canada or in your example, even Quebec. Saying 1 or 2 teams can compete in Midget AAA doesn't mean they have 250 QMJHL draft worthy players.

It's also been specific talk about a class of players coming up in the '02-'03 age groups like Sato (Quebec Remparts) Ando (Top scorer in CSSHL E15 among WHL draft picks) and Aito.


Saying 1 or 2 players have potential and that their midget AAA team can compete with some Canadian clubs isn't the same as saying they have hundreds of prospects ready to take over

Gordon has showed us exemples of AAA teams in Japan beating AAA teams in Canada. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that means at least a couple of players on those Japan teams are pretty dang good, but obviously not all 250 players are good like you said. But still, my question is that you never see these Japanese players end up playing pro anywhere.

Well if some of them are so good at the Midget AAA level, what happens to them after they turn 18? They stop developping? I mean, you are using Liam Kirk and the CHL exemple which I have talked about of course, but I have also talked about the rest of Europe, ECHL, etc. If you are any good like those Japanese and Liam Kirk you will end up playing pro somewhere for sure unless you quit. Kirk is a solid OHL player already. So where are all these pro Japanese players then?

 

[Number 57]

I agree. Another reason is the money. It's very difficult for most families to finance their kid to go abroad. Most young descent players come from Northern Japan regions where average families make much less than from the big cities. Language is another issue...without a support system to take care of and guide these young non-English speakers it's another hurdle/concern. Most will opt to stay in Japan to get at least educated rather than take that difficult and expensive route to possibly play in CHL or other similar NA leagues.

It is true that seems like there are more talented players developing at 2002 and younger age group recently. Older players have not been as good...which is apparent by watching Japan's Junior and Senior national teams as well as their semi-pro jitsuguodan league games...I would say that they are equivalent to Canadian junior B level at best.

NHL teams have invested a lot of money into their scouting. Are you telling me that some top AAA players from Japan do not continue playing hockey and developing because their families lack the funding? Sounds weird when some NHL teams are worth more than a billion. If these kids are that good why arnt NHL teams at least signing 1 or 2 of them and giving them signing bonuses and try to develop them? I mean Midget AAA is what, 15-16 years old? That is only one year removed from NHL draft. These kids can be signed if they get drafted OR invited to training camp and signed by NHL teams. Absolutely no reason why there has been zero Japanese at NHL camps recently, if they are this good. They would at least get invited and/or signed.

Imagine Quebec sucked as a hockey nation... but a couple of their AAA players were actually pretty good. Think Joe Veleno, Alexis Lafreniere. You're telling me these talented kids would just drop hockey when they are playing AAA at 15 and 16 and being just as good as anyone else in Canada? No, NHL teams would find these kids and draft them, invite them or sign them.

 

[bobby183]

NHL teams have invested a lot of money into their scouting. Are you telling me that some top AAA players from Japan do not continue playing hockey and developing because their families lack the funding? Sounds weird when some NHL teams are worth more than a billion. If these kids are that good why arnt NHL teams at least signing 1 or 2 of them and giving them signing bonuses and try to develop them? I mean Midget AAA is what, 15-16 years old? That is only one year removed from NHL draft. These kids can be signed if they get drafted OR invited to training camp and signed by NHL teams. Absolutely no reason why there has been zero Japanese at NHL camps recently, if they are this good. They would at least get invited and/or signed.

Imagine Quebec sucked as a hockey nation... but a couple of their AAA players were actually pretty good. Think Joe Veleno, Alexis Lafreniere. You're telling me these talented kids would just drop hockey when they are playing AAA at 15 and 16 and being just as good as anyone else in Canada? No, NHL teams would find these kids and draft them, invite them or sign them.

In theory yes, in practice still no. As I said it has been more recently that we began to see better players being developed there and Japan being a non-traditional market and relatively small pool, I have a hard time imagining NHL franchises investing there. There has been no in roads there for such. Perhaps if Iguchi and Ando succeed they might pave the way for the future subsequent talents from Japan? Let's watch and see.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Gordon has showed us exemples of AAA teams in Japan beating AAA teams in Canada. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that means at least a couple of players on those Japan teams are pretty dang good, but obviously not all 250 players are good like you said. But still, my question is that you never see these Japanese players end up playing pro anywhere.

Well if some of them are so good at the Midget AAA level, what happens to them after they turn 18? They stop developping? I mean, you are using Liam Kirk and the CHL exemple which I have talked about of course, but I have also talked about the rest of Europe, ECHL, etc. If you are any good like those Japanese and Liam Kirk you will end up playing pro somewhere for sure unless you quit. Kirk is a solid OHL player already. So where are all these pro Japanese players then?

And like I said, the discussion around Japanese hockey right now is mainly based on this '02-'03 age group which seems to be booming. None of them are old enough to be playing pro.

To use an example from another sport/league - back in 2010 there were basically no Canadians in the NBA. Some people were aware of this "golden generation" of talented NBA players that were about to boom from Canada and obviously there were also naysayers because it had never happened before. Pointing to the pro ranks while the "golden generation" are still teenagers doesn't make much sense. Just to clarify because I know someone will take this out of context, I'm not comparing the Canadian "golden generation" in basketball to these Japanese lads. We're talking about a much much smaller scale. But discrediting these young up n comers based on a generation before them makes absolutely no sense.

If hfboards was loaded with overhype of Japanese prospects for the last decade and none of them were panning into pros, I'd have 0 beef with your point. There would be a pattern of overhype. Atlantic Canada gets that knock in Canada because they have overhyped at least 1 player every year since Crosby and I think MacKinnon is really the only one to hit the mark... and if you look closely on hfboards you can find posts of people suggesting Michael Lyle was the best '95 in Canada back then so even when the overhype works there was overhype elsewhere.

 

[LTIR Trickery]

I watch alot of hockey from bantam, major midget, jr b, major jr, and Nhl... trust me

No thanks.

 

[Gordon Graham]

They got relegated from there last season, did they not? To D2A.

I was referring to Ando's U18 team, that won the WJC D1B