Speculation: Expansion Talk

[ComradeChris]

From another perspective of things the Wings should be looking to lose two of their better complementary players in the next 3 years. Because of that it's important to upgrade the roster spots to best player available for the number of protected spots. The other spots don't matter so much because we have so much depth now and depth coming up.

Basically the wings should have been big buyers at this deadline with the pieces they have, but Holland dropped the ball. They should have been looking for backend help all season.

Our trade assets this season were:
Helm (expiring contract)
Quincey (expiring contract)
One of Nyquist/Mantha (redundant to have both in the lineup)
Pulkkinen, Juco (Prospects with potential but can be replaced)
Kronwall (Available only for a big upgrade)
2nd round and later picks

So if were keeping these guys for sure in 3 years:
Athanasiou
Larkin
One of Nyquist/Tatar
Mantha
Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Abdelkader

Kronwall
Dekeyser
Green

Mrazek

Then that means we have a lot of pieces available for upgrade. One of the biggest pieces being one of Nyquist or Tatar. Add in a 1st round pick and Helm and that could have gotten us a strong defenseman for this season. We have missed out in the past on Burns, Hamilton, Myers, e.t.c. There has to be a defenseman avilable for upgrade for that package. Or add in Kronwall too for an update like a P.K. Subban perhaps?

Note: Next year possible trading pieces because they will be free agents in 2017 include Tatar, Smith, Jurco, and Glendening.

Datysuk or Zetterberg will never be traded. Kronwall highly unlikely as well. Green could be good to trade for an upgrade, but I don't see Holland dealing a UFA signing. Defense is the Red Wings most important need. Since Lidstrom has been gone there has been no consistency or respect to the Detroit backend. The forwards are limited due to the lack of defensive punch. They need defensive support to contend especially with our aging superstars. Can Holland get it done next year? His current track record is suggesting he is not up to the task. Agree or disagree?

 

[obey86]

From another perspective of things the Wings should be looking to lose two of their better complementary players in the next 3 years. Because of that it's important to upgrade the roster spots to best player available for the number of protected spots. The other spots don't matter so much because we have so much depth now and depth coming up.

Basically the wings should have been big buyers at this deadline with the pieces they have, but Holland dropped the ball. They should have been looking for backend help all season.

Our trade assets this season were:
Helm (expiring contract)
Quincey (expiring contract)
One of Nyquist/Mantha (redundant to have both in the lineup)
Pulkkinen, Juco (Prospects with potential but can be replaced)
Kronwall (Available only for a big upgrade)
2nd round and later picks

So if were keeping these guys for sure in 3 years:
Athanasiou
Larkin
One of Nyquist/Tatar
Mantha
Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Abdelkader

Kronwall
Dekeyser
Green

Mrazek

Then that means we have a lot of pieces available for upgrade. One of the biggest pieces being one of Nyquist or Tatar. Add in a 1st round pick and Helm and that could have gotten us a strong defenseman for this season. We have missed out in the past on Burns, Hamilton, Myers, e.t.c. There has to be a defenseman avilable for upgrade for that package. Or add in Kronwall too for an update like a P.K. Subban perhaps?

Note: Next year possible trading pieces because they will be free agents in 2017 include Tatar, Smith, Jurco, and Glendening.

Datysuk or Zetterberg will never be traded. Kronwall highly unlikely as well. Green could be good to trade for an upgrade, but I don't see Holland dealing a UFA signing. Defense is the Red Wings most important need. Since Lidstrom has been gone there has been no consistency or respect to the Detroit backend. The forwards are limited due to the lack of defensive punch. They need defensive support to contend especially with our aging superstars. Can Holland get it done next year? His current track record is suggesting he is not up to the task. Agree or disagree?

Don't you mean Nyquist and Tatar? I don't see how Nyquist and Mantha are redundant. Completely different players.

The problem is, no one would want Kronwall or Ericsson's contracts. And to add significant salary for a defenseman at the deadline you would probably have to move one of those guys. Montreal isn't going to trade Subban for a package around Kronwall. Come on.

 

[8snake]

Don't you mean Nyquist and Tatar? I don't see how Nyquist and Mantha are redundant. Completely different players.

The problem is, no one would want Kronwall or Ericsson's contracts. And to add significant salary for a defenseman at the deadline you would probably have to move one of those guys. Montreal isn't going to trade Subban for a package around Kronwall. Come on.

There is a very real disconnect between the player Kronwall is now and the player some Wings posters on this board still perceive him to be. Honestly this board is actually kinder when it comes to Kronwall's decline than local radio. Listening this afternoon most callers wanted Kronwall to be scratched immediately and put him right there with Ericsson as the worst d-men on the team. I don't know that I would scratch Nik...but admittedly his level of play has certainly been scratch-worthy.

 

[The Zermanator]

There is a very real disconnect between the player Kronwall is now and the player some Wings posters on this board still perceive him to be. Honestly this board is actually kinder when it comes to Kronwall's decline than local radio. Listening this afternoon most callers wanted Kronwall to be scratched immediately and put him right there with Ericsson as the worst d-men on the team. I don't know that I would scratch Nik...but admittedly his level of play has certainly been scratch-worthy.

It's his low cap hit, that's why he deserves less heat. He's still adequate in that role. But he was the only semblance of a #1 and now he can't perform to that level. That's the problem. Not his fault.

But obviously he would not be in the discussion for a Subban deal. Larkin is likely the major ask in that scenario, maybe with DeKeyser or something. But that's not happening from either side so who really cares.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

From another perspective of things the Wings should be looking to lose two of their better complementary players in the next 3 years. Because of that it's important to upgrade the roster spots to best player available for the number of protected spots. The other spots don't matter so much because we have so much depth now and depth coming up.

Basically the wings should have been big buyers at this deadline with the pieces they have, but Holland dropped the ball. They should have been looking for backend help all season.

Our trade assets this season were:
Helm (expiring contract)
Quincey (expiring contract)
One of Nyquist/Mantha (redundant to have both in the lineup)
Pulkkinen, Juco (Prospects with potential but can be replaced)
Kronwall (Available only for a big upgrade)
2nd round and later picks

So if were keeping these guys for sure in 3 years:
Athanasiou
Larkin
One of Nyquist/Tatar
Mantha
Zetterberg
Datsyuk
Abdelkader

Kronwall
Dekeyser
Green

Mrazek

Then that means we have a lot of pieces available for upgrade. One of the biggest pieces being one of Nyquist or Tatar. Add in a 1st round pick and Helm and that could have gotten us a strong defenseman for this season. We have missed out in the past on Burns, Hamilton, Myers, e.t.c. There has to be a defenseman avilable for upgrade for that package. Or add in Kronwall too for an update like a P.K. Subban perhaps?

Note: Next year possible trading pieces because they will be free agents in 2017 include Tatar, Smith, Jurco, and Glendening.

Datysuk or Zetterberg will never be traded. Kronwall highly unlikely as well. Green could be good to trade for an upgrade, but I don't see Holland dealing a UFA signing. Defense is the Red Wings most important need. Since Lidstrom has been gone there has been no consistency or respect to the Detroit backend. The forwards are limited due to the lack of defensive punch. They need defensive support to contend especially with our aging superstars. Can Holland get it done next year? His current track record is suggesting he is not up to the task. Agree or disagree?

The problem with your premise is that while UFA Helm and Quincey would be decent for us to move, they have much lower value as rentals to another team than they do to us. And just because you like the value and think it's something good that you're giving up... That means very little when it actually comes to a deal. The team you're trading with has to want what you're offering for what you want to give up. And seriously, you aren't going to get a wart-free upgrade to the D by trading rentals and picks. You'll get a Dennis Wideman who would make the D better, I suppose, but is really more akin to shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic because you'd have to give up something of value to get a slight upgrade.

The value will be okay for 1st, UFA Helm, and UFA Nyquist/Tatar for a guy like Shattenkirk, but if you're St. Louis why do you do that? You don't need a 3C, a small winger, nor to trade a #2/3 D like Shattenkirk for those two pieces and a mid 1st.

Basically, most of the Wings trade assets you talk about up there have very little value because of contract/production balance. The only ones with huge value are the guys we don't want to deal.

 

[Henkka]

The problem with your premise is that while UFA Helm and Quincey would be decent for us to move, they have much lower value as rentals to another team than they do to us. And just because you like the value and think it's something good that you're giving up... That means very little when it actually comes to a deal. The team you're trading with has to want what you're offering for what you want to give up. And seriously, you aren't going to get a wart-free upgrade to the D by trading rentals and picks. You'll get a Dennis Wideman who would make the D better, I suppose, but is really more akin to shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic because you'd have to give up something of value to get a slight upgrade.

The value will be okay for 1st, UFA Helm, and UFA Nyquist/Tatar for a guy like Shattenkirk, but if you're St. Louis why do you do that? You don't need a 3C, a small winger, nor to trade a #2/3 D like Shattenkirk for those two pieces and a mid 1st.

Basically, most of the Wings trade assets you talk about up there have very little value because of contract/production balance. The only ones with huge value are the guys we don't want to deal.

Good post.

I think Tatar has the best contract/production value from our player which could be trade baits.

But we also need that good value per cap space.

Any trade for a defensive upgrade like Shattenkirk should include at least 1st and Tatar. And then probably a young defenceman.

Add Russo in the deal and proably then Blues could have some interest?

Then they would have Bouwmeester, Pietrangelo, Parayko, Edmunson, Russo to build around.

Russo and Tatar would give them capspace for their other payrises which are becoming a problem when Shattenkirk needs a new deal.

 

[FissionFire]

Teams like St. Louis and Anaheim with an abundance on defense will be making moves before the expansion draft to cut down the numbers. I could see trades of established D for guys with high upside who are 1st or 2nd year pros definitely happening.