Expansion Hypothetical: Which goalie do we protect?

[Hoek]

Isn't Bish one of the guys pushing for smaller pads? There was a story when he first came to the Lightning about how he's actually allowed to use larger equipment than he does currently, but he doesn't. He's one of very few goalies that the equipment changes shouldn't affect much, if at all.

I heard he was supporting it but I figured he was just trying to get ahead of criticism. Didn't know he uses smaller ones than he's allowed to.

 

[Hoek]

I'm not concerned, for one we don't know the exact rules on protection and two expansion teams will be willing to make moves to gain additional assets. We tell the team to take Vasilevskiy and we will trade them Garrison + a 1st/2nd for Vasilevskiy back. Expansion team gets a high picks + top 4 D, they than trade Garrison at the deadline for a pick + prospect. For a team with no pipeline they get a few picks and prospects for working with us to keep who we want.

Wouldn't even necessarily have to be that complicated. Past expansion drafts featured picks traded for not picking certain players or goalies in the first place.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Wouldn't even necessarily have to be that complicated. Past expansion drafts featured picks traded for not picking certain players or goalies in the first place.

I know, was just coming up with something we could do that includes us moving out salary as well. We could just pay them a 2nd for taking a Garrison/Coburn/Filpulla type contract off our hands.

 

[Todd1a]

I'm not concerned, for one we don't know the exact rules on protection and two expansion teams will be willing to make moves to gain additional assets. We tell the team to take Vasilevskiy and we will trade them Garrison + a 1st/2nd for Vasilevskiy back. Expansion team gets a high picks + top 4 D, they than trade Garrison at the deadline for a pick + prospect. For a team with no pipeline they get a few picks and prospects for working with us to keep who we want.

why I'd rather keep vasy plus you think vasy wants to be a back up forever ? There are teams that vasy can start for in this league now.

 

[HoseEmDown]

why I'd rather keep vasy plus you think vasy wants to be a back up forever ? There are teams that vasy can start for in this league now.

We may be forced to protect l Bishop though, nobody knows the rules so far. I'm sure he wants to be one but he needs to realize the guy in head of him is better than him right now, there's several good young goalies out there who probably think they can be a starter but its harder than it looks. Bernier was expected to be a stud who was stuck behind Quick, when given the job he failed, might be better for Vasilevskiy to earn the job with his play which has been inconsistent.

 

[Sky04]

Lightning's #1 trump card is getting bailed out by Bishop, he's not going anywhere with this kind of play. Take out Bishop and you'll see all the defensive flaws in this roster that's heavily covered up by him. I would rather lose Stamkos than Bishop at this point too.

If Vasilevskiy wants to be the #1 he has to outplay Bishop every opportunity he gets, not dropping softies every game. Vasilevskiy is incredibly young and goalies don't usually hit full stride until their mid-late 20's. Unless the Lightning continue finding gems in the draft, all our top guys will be or close to their 30's by the time Vasilevski hits his prime and then we'd just be the New York Rangers.

I would be up for moving him within the next couple years to add another key piece to this current team and their cup window unless he shows he can take over Bishop.

 

[CupsOverCash]

Bishops not going anywhere. Not unless Vasi takes his job.

 

[WeedCrimes]

Vasilevski has elite potential. He could even end up playing as good as Bishop one day.

Protect the guy who was nominated for a Vezina, and could win one this year.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

imho vasy catches at least catches bishop within two years where a decision might have to get made at that point yep that is exactly the time that expansion seems to be rumored which is quite good for us

young goalies need 4-5 years most times to ge there young elite goalies can do it in shorter time frames

i see vasy as young and elite he absolutely has the work ethic now is just hitting the reps gaining the confidence etc...

 

[FinnLightning26]

Potential is intriguing but I'll take the current proven top goalie 10/10 times. Goalie is an underrated position nowadays. A good goalie can steal your team important games it has no place winning. A bad goalie can lose you games you should be winning. We saw that with our very own eyes for too long with this team. Now that we finally have a top goalie I don't want to lose him.

 

[Hoek]

Whatever happens I certainly don't want to lose both like Vancouver did with Luongo and Schneider. What a joke that was.

 

[The Macho King]

Potential is intriguing but I'll take the current proven top goalie 10/10 times. Goalie is an underrated position nowadays. A good goalie can steal your team important games it has no place winning. A bad goalie can lose you games you should be winning. We saw that with our very own eyes for too long with this team. Now that we finally have a top goalie I don't want to lose him.

Yeah - you'd think after 25 years and having three goalies worthy of a starting job in the entire timeframe and a lot more time with **** goalies, we wouldn't be so quick to throw out an elite #1 for a mystery box.

We have to keep Bishop - it just sucks that we have to lose Vasilevskiy if it comes to this.

 

[DFC]

imho vasy catches at least catches bishop within two years where a decision might have to get made at that point yep that is exactly the time that expansion seems to be rumored which is quite good for us

young goalies need 4-5 years most times to ge there young elite goalies can do it in shorter time frames

i see vasy as young and elite he absolutely has the work ethic now is just hitting the reps gaining the confidence etc...

I'm not sure you're giving full appreciation to just how good Bishop has been for us.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

I'm not sure you're giving full appreciation to just how good Bishop has been for us.

i am

i get it i promised last year stephen gregory yzerman will make some moves some people will totally be unhappy with

i think out of necessity bishop is one of those casualties

I will say stevie didnt sound none to pleased for expansion to maybe hit in 2017 and to me that is absolutely the goalie situation

i think bishop is gonna get paid and we wont have the cap for him and vasy will have proven enough reliable enough to move forward

i think stevies plan was 2018

 

[tjs*]

I still don't think we'll be forced to lose one to expansion. It'll be absolutely absurd if teams are forced to protect impending UFAs with NMCs, so assuming that doesn't happen we just protect Vasy and resign Bishop after the draft. I think the issue is going to be the cap: we should be fine keeping both until it's time to pay Drouin big money, but once that happens unless we can shed some additional salary (Callahan and Garrison will be prime candidates) we might be looking at losing Bishop. And even if we don't lose Bish then there's a good chance Vasy gets offer sheeted at some point. I'm all for keeping both as long as we can but eventually we're going to have to make a choice.

 

[Felonious Python]

protect both goalies, if Bishop can't be hidden in UFA or something.

 

[DFC]

If we're forced to make a choice in the short-term, the choice has to be Bishop. The only exception would be if we're already in a crazy cap crunch. But Vasy, right now, would be a significant step down from Bish. Not everything we do can be about planning for 5 years from now.

And, with the way Bish is playing right now, I think any goalie, Vasy included, would be a long shot to reach this level. We're talking about a guy who's, at worst, the third best goalie in the NHL (probably second).

Expecting Vasy to reach that level is just too big of a gamble. Maybe he'll do it, sure, but it's a long shot, and there'll be growing pains.

So yeah, maybe the money forces our hand. But otherwise, Bish is just way too good to give away.

 

[The Gongshow]

A decision I would not want to make. Vasi shows future promise, but Bishop has been amazing and solid for 3 years straight and wins this team games and has become one of the top goalies out there. Plus the way he handles the puck is fantastic

 

[tjs*]

If we're forced to make a choice in the short-term, the choice has to be Bishop. The only exception would be if we're already in a crazy cap crunch. But Vasy, right now, would be a significant step down from Bish. Not everything we do can be about planning for 5 years from now.

And, with the way Bish is playing right now, I think any goalie, Vasy included, would be a long shot to reach this level. We're talking about a guy who's, at worst, the third best goalie in the NHL (probably second).

Expecting Vasy to reach that level is just too big of a gamble. Maybe he'll do it, sure, but it's a long shot, and there'll be growing pains.

So yeah, maybe the money forces our hand. But otherwise, Bish is just way too good to give away.

Again though, how much longer do we think Bishop is going to last? A tall goaltender with a history of groin injury is as much of a longterm risk as an unproven youngster. If we can get 3-4 more years of Cup runs out of Bish then maybe it's worth throwing away our safer longterm solution, but if Bishop drops off two years from now and we've let Vasy go we're going to regret it big time.

 

[Sky04]

Again though, how much longer do we think Bishop is going to last? A tall goaltender with a history of groin injury is as much of a longterm risk as an unproven youngster. If we can get 3-4 more years of Cup runs out of Bish then maybe it's worth throwing away our safer longterm solution, but if Bishop drops off two years from now and we've let Vasy go we're going to regret it big time.

He's 29 and only became a starter 2 years ago.. I'll put a safe bet on 3-4 years over gambling on Vasi next year when Bishop's contract is up.

Tampa riding Vasi as a starter this year would be drafting in the top-10.

 

[The Gongshow]

Bishop is in the prime goalie age. Usually late twenties to early thirties is when goalies get going. they take the longest to develop, with a few exceptions of course. I wouldn't want to lose Bish right now, but having a young amazing goalie for a decade would also be great. Goaltending has been an issue with the Lightning for years, now we actually have one, we shouldn't be so eager to get rid of him to make room for a not sure thing, just yet.

 

[tjs*]

He's 29 and only became a starter 2 years ago.. I'll put a safe bet on 3-4 years over gambling on Vasi next year when Bishop's contract is up.

Tampa riding Vasi as a starter this year would be drafting in the top-10.

Can't disagree with that. I'm a huge fan of Bishop and like Yzerman I want to hang onto both for as long as possible; it's just a difficult decision with risk regardless of which way we go and I'm just concerned that if we let Vasy go and Bish drops off sooner than expected that we'll be back in the dark ages of horrible goaltending again.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

when decision is forced at least after 2018 if can drag that long

bishop is gonna get paid in tune of 7.5 range if he continues to play at this level?

if is disagreement ok we will agree to disagree

this is going to force a serious cap crunch lets take out stamkos even though YES todd im saying he signs lol

kucherov 6x6 tyjo 6x6 and palat 6x66 drouin 3 years 5 million bridge deal hedman 8.5 million

stralman 5 million
garrison 4.6 million
coburn 3.75 million

killorn 3.75 million
boyle 2 million
sustr 2.75 million
vladdy 2.25 million
nesterov 1.5 million

koekkoek 1.5 million

vasy 2 million

thats 60.6

filppula 5 million callahan 6 million paquette 1.5 12.5 total or 72.5

19 of our 23 three guys will have on roster probably puts us at 72.5

which maybe we get to 75 before expansion draft and These numbers im sure you will all agree COULD be LOW or im hoping they work lol

is pretty dammed tight with this working perfectly

now you add stamkos 10 million? GOOD LUCK

if we sign stamkos we cant really keep bishop if he gets 7.5


P.S. a SECRET?

THE 72.5 THAT IS WITHOUT A RESIGNED BISHOP

so you let me know how you are going to get this done?

GOOD LUCK

 

[DFC]

Again though, how much longer do we think Bishop is going to last? A tall goaltender with a history of groin injury is as much of a longterm risk as an unproven youngster. If we can get 3-4 more years of Cup runs out of Bish then maybe it's worth throwing away our safer longterm solution, but if Bishop drops off two years from now and we've let Vasy go we're going to regret it big time.

29 is relatively young for a goalie, particularly an elite one. He's got at least 2-3 good years left in him (that's a bare minimum). Vasy's not the safer option in short-term OR long-term. Yes, Vasy's career will still be going strong when Bishop's has ended, but there's nothing close to a guarantee that he'll ever be at the level Bishop is at right now, or the level Bishop will be at even when he takes a step back.

A lot of the best goalies we've seen in recent times were complete unknowns until their late twenties/early thirties. Goalies are a whole different thing.

 

[DFC]

Can't disagree with that. I'm a huge fan of Bishop and like Yzerman I want to hang onto both for as long as possible; it's just a difficult decision with risk regardless of which way we go and I'm just concerned that if we let Vasy go and Bish drops off sooner than expected that we'll be back in the dark ages of horrible goaltending again.

The other side of that risk is that Vasy doesn't develop as we'd hoped. I think we've seen a stutter in his development this year (i.e. he doesn't do anything better this year than he did last year). If we lose Bishop, we're losing a known quantity--a Vezina caliber goalie--in hopes that an unknown will someday develop into just that.

But we'd be throwing away a few years while Vasy learns the job. Given the age of our team right now (pretty much everyone coming into their prime together) that's not something I want to do.