Expansion Hypothetical: Which goalie do we protect?

[VinikToWinIt]

Let's say the league decides to expand to 32 teams. The last time this happened, you were allowed to protect 1 goalie, 9 forwards, and 5 defensemen. You could also choose to protect 2 goalies, 7 forwards, and 3 defensemen. If the league decided to expand after this year, would we give up a possible franchise goalie in the interest of a sure starter in Bishop? Would we give up Bishop in the hopes that Vasya is everything we think he is? Or would we choose to protect both, giving up more forwards and defensemen?

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[garmonbozia]

ELC players needn't be exposed?

Ignoring that, protect Vasi.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Clearly Nabokov

 

[VinikToWinIt]

ELC players needn't be exposed?

Ignoring that, protect Vasi.

Whoops. Everyone ignore that little tidbit. I'm actually curious who we would keep if we had to give one up after the season.

 

[Major4Boarding]

ELC players needn't be exposed?

Ignoring that, protect Vasi.

Last Expansion Draft, and assumedly the next one, there were minimum NHL games played requirements and protection for first and second year players.

Dug this out of the archives here - The 2000 Expansion Draft

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1459435

There's even a mock out there

http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/sto...ock-draft-rules-las-vegas-team-seattle-hockey

 

[The Macho King]

This may be our ticket to unloading Carle, btw.

 

[dbieon12]

This may be our ticket to unloading Carle, btw.

Hire this man.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Let's say the league decides to expand to 32 teams. The last time this happened, you were allowed to protect 1 goalie, 9 forwards, and 5 defensemen. You could also choose to protect 2 goalies, 7 forwards, and 3 defensemen. If the league decided to expand after this year, would we give up a possible franchise goalie in the interest of a sure starter in Bishop? Would we give up Bishop in the hopes that Vasya is everything we think he is? Or would we choose to protect both, giving up more forwards and defensemen?

this isnt even wothy of an debate even if bishop won a couple cups which I believe is in his wheelhouse he is a blocking goalie and vasi is a saver. We would protect if NEEDED vasi. Reasoning is elc money etc.. is just what would happen imho.

 

[VinikToWinIt]

Bumping this now that it might actually be an issue. Who would you keep? Bishop is lights out right now but Vasy is a future star.

Maybe mods can add a poll?

 

[Lovethiscity]

both goalies. Can't survive without a backup.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

even if bishop wins the cup the next two years

we keep vasilevskis

is too many factors that go into this age money etc..

you trade bishop for best return possible etc..


i really dont see this as a debate this kid is being groomed to be the man in the future why bishop only got so many years in last deal

 

[Todd1a]

No way I see yzerman not protecting a stud 21 year old goalie this is not mike gillis lol it's yzerman. My guess is yzerman trades bishops rights before the expansion draft protection.

 

[dechire]

If Bishop isn't signed by the draft date then there's no point in protecting him. Leave him unprotected, let him get picked, then sign him as a UFA on July 1st. Or he won't get picked because as a UFA he won't re-sign with the crappy expansion team anyway so they won't waste a pick on him.

 

[tjs*]

We may not have a choice in the matter. Aside from the question of whether or not players with NMCs will be required to be placed on a team's protected list, there's the additional question of how impending UFAs with NMCs (such as Bishop) will be handled. A worst case scenario could see us being required to protect Bishop due to his NMC, and thus being forced to expose and likely lose Vasy, only to then see Bishop potentially walk via free agency less than a month after the expansion draft. Forget losing one of our goalies due to the draft - we might actually lose them both!

Ideally of course the league would see the ridiculousness of something like this happening and come up with a fair solution to prevent it (the most obvious being not requiring impending UFAs to be protected), but if not we could be in a lot of trouble. We could possibly trade Bishop to another team before the draft (which would theoretically clear his NMC and allow that team to leave him unprotected) in exchange for sending a pick or prospect their way or possibly even returning the favor in kind, but there's no guarantee that Bishop would approve such a move. Or if Bishop is planning to resign with us he might also be able to waive his NMC for the draft so we can keep Vasy as his backup, but even if that is an option who knows if Bishop would be willing to do that to keep his likely eventual replacement around? From a purely selfish point of view his best move would be to force us to protect him so that we lose Vasy, and then hold our feet over the flames in negotiations (either we pay him big money or we lose both our goalies.) Hopefully he wouldn't do that, but depending on how the rules shake out he's going to have all the power.

It could be just as bad if the draft is moved back a year to 2018. Aside from the additional young prospects who would be exposed, if we've resigned Bishop at that point (which would almost certainly require giving him a NMC again) we'd have absolutely no way of protecting Vasy. At least we wouldn't lose both goalies in that scenario, but we'd also have no way of keeping both (unless we somehow bribe the expansion team(s) with enough picks/players for them to pass on an immensely talented future franchise goalie, which is both unlikely and could potentially be even worse than losing Vasy.) The more likely scenario is that we simply wouldn't resign Bishop, which would still suck but at least allow us to keep the younger and cheaper of the two.

In short this draft is could put us in a VERY tight spot.

 

[Todd1a]

Bishop or vasy expansion ?

We all know the Lightning will have both vasy and bishop next season. But before the expansion draft who would you protect ? Should we extend bishop a new contract extension this summer ? Trade vasy before the expansion draft ? Bishop has made this decision very difficult for now with his play. This is most likely going to be yzerman and his staff most difficult decision since he has been gm in Tampa bay ! What does yzerman do ?

 

[Stammertime91]

We know what we have with Bishop. He's good for 40 wins and performing in the playoffs. Just because there's a young guy in your system with great potential doesn't mean you discard what you KNOW you have. If it came down to protecting one, protect Bishop. Vasy will be a great goalie I'm sure, but we have plenty of years left with Ben playing the way he has, no reason to end such a good thing because of fear of losing what could be.

 

[The Macho King]

I feel like these rules were written to **** us.

 

[Five Alarm Fire]

Start negotiating with Bishop this summer. If his asking price is too ridiculous, trade him or keep him around for one last cup run. I would sign him to anything <= $7.5 million/year. If not, hold on to Vasilevskiy as long as possible and then trade him.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

hard to not choose a vezina candidate goalie... you know Vasi has the potential to be that and will be cheaper for some years but anyway anything could happen to him... losing Bish, and Vasi not meeting the expectations would be a disaster... at this point we have to do something to keep both as long as possible

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

ive said we will move bishop when have to always thought would get a new contract

bishop is a great player and lightning representative im sure we will not get screwed per fears

bishop would let us sign and trade him imho if needed so can protect vasy

 

[LightningStrikes]

As long as we don't know what the situation with NMCs is gonna be we can only speculate. I'd be surprised if teams had to "waste" a protection pick for players with a NMC. So all we have to do is re-sign Bish and give him a NMC. Oh, and pray that the expansion draft is after his new contract.

 

[tjs*]

We know what we have with Bishop. He's good for 40 wins and performing in the playoffs. Just because there's a young guy in your system with great potential doesn't mean you discard what you KNOW you have. If it came down to protecting one, protect Bishop. Vasy will be a great goalie I'm sure, but we have plenty of years left with Ben playing the way he has, no reason to end such a good thing because of fear of losing what could be.

Depending in how the rules shake out we may be able to get away with protecting Vasy and resigning Bishop after the expansion draft (since he will be a UFA that summer.)

I'm a huge Bishop fan and I hear what you're saying, but Bishop is a tall goalie with a history of groin problems so I'm concerned about his durability longterm. If we let Vasy go and Bishop starts having major issues a couple years from now we'll be in trouble.

I say we keep them both if we can and get another 2-3 years out of Bish, then make a decision. If he resigns with us then there will obviously be a discussion beforehand about his future with the team, and it's quite possible that he wouldn't mind sticking around for a few years before potentially being traded somewhere with his approval. The only risk there (but it's a dangerous one) is that Bishop could get injured before we can move him, in which case we'd be stuck with an injured expensive goalie and likely lose Vasy when it comes time to give him a raise.

 

[Hoek]

Depending in how the rules shake out we may be able to get away with protecting Vasy and resigning Bishop after the expansion draft (since he will be a UFA that summer.)

That's what I'm hoping for. It's what the Rangers did with Richter.

One other thing to consider is any possible rule changes about goalie pad size. Bishop might struggle with smaller pads and Vasi might be able to show his athleticism more as a result. Tough call in any case.

 

[DFC]

That's what I'm hoping for. It's what the Rangers did with Richter.

One other thing to consider is any possible rule changes about goalie pad size. Bishop might struggle with smaller pads and Vasi might be able to show his athleticism more as a result. Tough call in any case.

Isn't Bish one of the guys pushing for smaller pads? There was a story when he first came to the Lightning about how he's actually allowed to use larger equipment than he does currently, but he doesn't. He's one of very few goalies that the equipment changes shouldn't affect much, if at all.

 

[HoseEmDown]

I'm not concerned, for one we don't know the exact rules on protection and two expansion teams will be willing to make moves to gain additional assets. We tell the team to take Vasilevskiy and we will trade them Garrison + a 1st/2nd for Vasilevskiy back. Expansion team gets a high picks + top 4 D, they than trade Garrison at the deadline for a pick + prospect. For a team with no pipeline they get a few picks and prospects for working with us to keep who we want.