News Article: Expansion Draft: Protection list, who Seattle might take

[The Madrigal]

Just my two cents, but while Jake may not play that physical bruising style, he’s probably the highest skill guy we have who can participate in that type of game. And that’s what the playoffs are

How many playoff series do you think the Flyers have won in the 10 seasons that Jake has been on the Flyers.

 

[The Madrigal]

Read a mock today that predicts JVR. New team will need some veteran leaders, but is JVR the type to wear a letter?

Im perfectly fine with them taking either one, but I would actually prefer that they take Jake and leave us with JVR. I would rather have JVR AT 7 million for two years than Jake at 8.25 million for three years.

 

[BernieParent]

@TB87 you better control your fellow ted

Tedious

 

[Curufinwe]

Claude Giroux
Jake Voracek
JVR
Joel Farabee
TK
Oskar Lindblom
Scott Laughton
Wade Allison

Gaping holes on defense, at goalie, and 3C, with little to no cap dollars to fill those needs. Yet we have people legit worried about losing 15-20 goals and around 65 points from an aging player in Voracek who has three years left on his deal, being paid like a superstar at over 8 million per year.

I love Jake the person, like Jake the player. That being said, he has been here for 10 years and the team hasn't won dick over that time period. He is clearly overpaid and they need to allocate those cap dollars to the defense and goaltending a hell of a lot more than they need to have it tied up in a soon to be 32 year old who might continue to be a 65 point winger or could just as easily decline over the next three years.

Seattle taking him in the expansion draft without the Flyers having to give them something of value to do it would be a f***ing gift.

Hayes retiring gives them an extra $7m on the cap. And, unlike Voracek and JVR, Hayes didn’t lead the team in scoring this most recent season.

 

[mdm815]

How many playoff series do you think the Flyers have won in the 10 seasons that Jake has been on the Flyers.

What does that have to do w him being one of the few players we have NOW w skill and the ability to handle the heavy gameplay and clutch and grab of the playoffs?

 

[The Madrigal]

What does that have to do w him being one of the few players we have NOW w skill and the ability to handle the heavy gameplay and clutch and grab of the playoffs?

Because this awesome skill and playoff ability you speak of has helped them win two playoff series in a decade.

 

[mdm815]

Because this awesome skill and playoff ability you speak of has helped them win two playoff series in a decade.

Is this supposed to be a gotcha moment? By that logic every player on the team is worthless.
I dno which fan club you fall into on here (too hard to keep track of all of you regulars) but I can tell you’re anti-Jake. That’s fine. It’s a valid opinion to have if you can back it up. I’m speaking specifically to Jake having the frame to handle clutch and grab. I dont see too many players on our team who can do that, and Jake, when on, is capable of handling it.

 

[StarterHart]

How many playoff series do you think the Flyers have won in the 10 seasons that Jake has been on the Flyers.

How many playoff games did the Detroit Lions win in the 10 years Barry Sanders played? He must have been the reason.

 

[deadhead]

i get what people are saying about voracek but I think he will be a vital part of a playoff run.....if we ever get a long one. We need his offense in those times

A playoff run, but not the playoffs. In his last 4 playoff appearances, at ES, he's scored at a 4th line rate (1.25 pp/60).
Given his defense, or lack of such, that's not acceptable at his pay grade.

JVR is worse. his last good playoff was 2012-13 with Toronto. His last three playoffs, 0.93 pp/60.

Ghost has 1 ES point in 229 PO minutes.

 

[The Madrigal]

How many playoff games did the Detroit Lions win in the 10 years Barry Sanders played? He must have been the reason.

Cool, so now we are so desperate to make a point we are going to compare two totally different sports.

Furthermore, I never once said it was Jake's fault the Flyers haven't had any playoff success over the last decade. Pointing out he hasn't been part of the solution is a completely different concept. Feel free to strawman and make a stupid cross sport comparison if you think it'll get you points with the echo chamber crew though.

 

[The Madrigal]

Is this supposed to be a gotcha moment? By that logic every player on the team is worthless.
I dno which fan club you fall into on here (too hard to keep track of all of you regulars) but I can tell you’re anti-Jake. That’s fine. It’s a valid opinion to have if you can back it up. I’m speaking specifically to Jake having the frame to handle clutch and grab. I dont see too many players on our team who can do that, and Jake, when on, is capable of handling it.

I never said Jake is worthless, nor am I ''anti-Jake.'' You are the one talking about how he is such a great playoff performer based on his frame and how we couldn't easily replace that, and I simply pointed out a fact about how little playoff success they have had in the decade he has been here. Kind of simple point for me to make and you to understand. People around here are extremely selective about what facts they choose to acknowledge though and which they choose to ignore.

 

[mdm815]

I never said Jake is worthless, nor am I ''anti-Jake.'' You are the one talking about how he is such a great playoff performer based on his frame and how we couldn't easily replace that, and I simply pointed out a fact about how little playoff success they have had in the decade he has been here. Kind of simple point for me to make and you to understand. People around here are extremely selective about what facts they choose to acknowledge though and which they choose to ignore.

Or which they choose to make up..
I never said the words “jake is a great playoff performer.” I said i like his frame for clutch and grab playoffs like the one we’ve seen. I think he is suited for that type of hockey if he comes engaged. You’re arguing w your own imagination.

 

[The Madrigal]

Or which they choose to make up..
I never said the words “jake is a great playoff performer.” I said i like his frame for clutch and grab playoffs like the one we’ve seen. I think he is suited for that type of hockey if he comes engaged. You’re arguing w your own imagination.

Just when I thought your points couldn't get any weaker you turn to arguing over semantics. Congrats.

 

[mdm815]

Just when I thought your points couldn't get any weaker you turn to arguing over semantics. Congrats.

Lol what? Reread our convo. My initial comment was literally “i think Jake is built well for the recent playoff meta” and you come in w “hurr durr two series bro.” There isn’t an argument here.

 

[StarterHart]

Cool, so now we are so desperate to make a point we are going to compare two totally different sports.

Furthermore, I never once said it was Jake's fault the Flyers haven't had any playoff success over the last decade. Pointing out he hasn't been part of the solution is a completely different concept. Feel free to strawman and make a stupid cross sport comparison if you think it'll get you points with the echo chamber crew though.

The point applies to nearly any team sport. The point being that blaming the highest performing players for the team's lack of success is ludicrous. The thinking that moving on from your best players is how to change that lack of success is not unique to this team. It happens over and over and over again, and it's always stupid and never works.

I wasn't seriously comparing the two sports here, I was merely point out how insanely ridiculous it to use team playoff series wins as a barometer for any single player.

ITS DUMB AS HELL AND NEEDS TO STOP. But what do I know, I don't have an imaginary 1000 NHL game playing friend to tell me who's smart.

 

[The Madrigal]

But what do I know, I don't have an imaginary 1000 NHL game playing friend to tell me who's smart.

You can make this stupid ass comment a hundred times and it's still not going to be funny or make it valid. For the record, I never said I was friends with a former NHL player. It was a friend of a friend situation and I was lucky enough to get to hang out with this former player and my friend a few times. But hey, if it makes you feel better to accuse me of being a liar and make stupid jokes about it, knock yourself out.

 

[flyerslducks]

A playoff run, but not the playoffs. In his last 4 playoff appearances, at ES, he's scored at a 4th line rate (1.25 pp/60).
Given his defense, or lack of such, that's not acceptable at his pay grade.

JVR is worse. his last good playoff was 2012-13 with Toronto. His last three playoffs, 0.93 pp/60.

Ghost has 1 ES point in 229 PO minutes.

flyers in general have been bad in the playoffs so im pretty sure you can provide numbers for half the team. If we are going to ever win, our top guys are going to have to produce (or at least some of them)...thats pretty much reality.

 

[deadhead]

flyers in general have been bad in the playoffs so im pretty sure you can provide numbers for half the team. If we are going to ever win, our top guys are going to have to produce (or at least some of them)...thats pretty much reality.

Hayes had 9 points in 13 PO games in 2019-20 (ignoring the 3 exhibition games).
Before that he had 10 points in 40 PO games. Mostly from age 22-24.

Couts has 12 points in his last 17 PO games.
Giroux 7 points in his last 19 PO games
Provorov 8 points in 19 PO games

 

[bennysflyers16]

I doubt Seattle would take Jake due to age and contract, has nothing to do with ability imo. If exposed this is the order I think Seattle takes our guys.
1 . Patrick
2. Ghost
3. JVR
4. Braun
5. Hogg

IMO it is one of those 5 if they are not protected.

 

[GoFightWin16]

Is this supposed to be a gotcha moment? By that logic every player on the team is worthless.
I dno which fan club you fall into on here (too hard to keep track of all of you regulars) but I can tell you’re anti-Jake. That’s fine. It’s a valid opinion to have if you can back it up. I’m speaking specifically to Jake having the frame to handle clutch and grab. I dont see too many players on our team who can do that, and Jake, when on, is capable of handling it.

I see it differently. Jake , to me , is not a gritty player, and one I would not forecast of having success in the playoffs when everything is tougher to come by. Except for the PP where he has some room. I don't see him winning board battles, although he is strong on the puck when he has it. What really bothers me is that he's not selected for SO. I sorry, you're an Offensive , skilled player making $8.25M......where's the leadership, clutch performance/moment?

 

[Curufinwe]

I see it differently. Jake , to me , is not a gritty player, and one I would not forecast of having success in the playoffs when everything is tougher to come by. Except for the PP where he has some room. I don't see him winning board battles, although he is strong on the puck when he has it. What really bothers me is that he's not selected for SO. I sorry, you're an Offensive , skilled player making $8.25M......where's the leadership, clutch performance/moment?

He was a regular in the SO for many years until he hit a cold streak and lost his place. But it’s frankly bananas to asses a star player’s worth by how they do in the shootout. Ovechkin is at 31.2% for his career, Giroux is 30.6%, Jake is 30%, and Bergeron is only at 27.8%.

 

[mdm815]

I see it differently. Jake , to me , is not a gritty player, and one I would not forecast of having success in the playoffs when everything is tougher to come by. Except for the PP where he has some room. I don't see him winning board battles, although he is strong on the puck when he has it. What really bothers me is that he's not selected for SO. I sorry, you're an Offensive , skilled player making $8.25M......where's the leadership, clutch performance/moment?

I definitely don’t think he’s the type to initiate the physical stuff, at least regularly. I do think he manages himself well in the physical game though.
Edit- to add on, we do need to see snarly Jake for this to happen. I’m cautiously optimistic he’s at the point in his career where he knows his personal window is closing and that’s what it will take.

 

[The Madrigal]

The proof is in the production. Jake has 9 goals and 28 points in 49 playoff games as a Flyer. That comes out to 15 goals and 47 points over an 82 game season. There is no excuse making for that because it simply isn't anywhere near good enough from a player making 8.25 million. His usual regular season production of 20 goals/65 points doesn't quite match his salary, his playoff production is horrible based on what he is getting paid.

 

[flyerslducks]

Hayes had 9 points in 13 PO games in 2019-20 (ignoring the 3 exhibition games).
Before that he had 10 points in 40 PO games. Mostly from age 22-24.

Couts has 12 points in his last 17 PO games.
Giroux 7 points in his last 19 PO games
Provorov 8 points in 19 PO games

I knew you would bring up hayes haahahah. just knew it. Either way...my point stands. If we want to win...at least 2 of these guys: giroux, couts, voracek, jvr (if they are all here) are going to have to produce a lot. We cant win without them and this also means other players like hayes, tk, lindblom, frost contributing off g/voracek/couts passing

 

[Striiker]

The point applies to nearly any team sport. The point being that blaming the highest performing players for the team's lack of success is ludicrous. The thinking that moving on from your best players is how to change that lack of success is not unique to this team. It happens over and over and over again, and it's always stupid and never works.

I wasn't seriously comparing the two sports here, I was merely point out how insanely ridiculous it to use team playoff series wins as a barometer for any single player.

ITS DUMB AS HELL AND NEEDS TO STOP. But what do I know, I don't have an imaginary 1000 NHL game playing friend to tell me who's smart.

It’s the go-to action of angry emotional fans who don’t know enough about the sport to understand what’s actually causing the team to lose.

Scapegoating the people least at fault is just pathetic and lazy.