Speculation: Expansion Draft Discussion
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Tysonson3
Registered User
- Feb 20, 2017
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I was reminiscing about that trade the other day. I find it hard to believe it was almost 5 years ago
- Aug 13, 2007
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Anyone who thinks Poile leaves Kunin unprotected after what he gave up to get him is delusional. Not gonna happen. Take it to the bank
GoldOnGold
Registered User
I was just saying that I, personally, would not protect Kunin over Arvidsson if it came down to it. I wasn't commenting on whether Poile will decide to do so.
I will note that Poile has felt fine abandoning other trade acquisitions when he wanted to (Hartman, Turris, Granlund (who went to FA before signing with us last summer)).
- Aug 13, 2007
- 35,522
- 15,807
Kunin hasnt underperformed and is still under a good contract. The others you mention all got more than a year and didnt live up to expectations
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
There is no way in the world I'm protecting Arvy over Kunin. I think Arvy is done, at least as this team is constructed.
Arvy is the Girard of forwards now. We know he is good at what he does, but we dont want to do that.
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
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I just don't even think it's an RV vs. Kunin thing. To me Kunin has his protection slot wrapped up. Second youngest forward on the team behind Tolvanen and scored at a 20g-20a pace for the second straight season. You just can't let that go. The question to me is should RV get protection over Johansen/Duchene/Jarnkrok/Trenin etc.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
Duchene I'm not protecting at all. I wouldn't even be mulling that one over.
As underwhelming as Johansen has been, the team can't afford to lose its #1C, not yet, so I'd likely protect him. I would protect Arvidsson over Duchene and Jarnkrok, though. Duchene doesn't need to be protected with that salary of his and scoring 13 points this season and Jarnkrok is serviceable, but more replaceable than what Arvidsson provides, IMO.
What's a little trickier is Trenin, since he's young, was a point per game in the AHL just two years ago and could blossom in the next couple of years, like he did over the course of several years in the AHL. That said, if he blossoms, he probably won't provide more offense than Arvidsson will over the next several years, even assuming that Viktor's 30-goal years are behind him. There's also the fact that Arvidsson's trade value is higher. Finally, Trenin has done so little so far that I'm not sure that Seattle would pick him. I assume that they'll be more interested in the Preds' more seasoned players, like Jarnkrok and Granlund. If it comes down to Arvidsson or Trenin, I think that I'd leave Trenin exposed and take the chance that he won't be taken, rather than expose Arvidsson and know for sure that he will be.
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Granlund can't be taken.
The Trenins of the world should be and probably very much are on Seattle's radar. Sure they'll take some good veterans from teams but you have to figure they know everything about every young/rookie type tweener out there.
The Trenins of the world should be and probably very much are on Seattle's radar. Sure they'll take some good veterans from teams but you have to figure they know everything about every young/rookie type tweener out there.
He can be taken, but he probably won't be because he's an impending UFA, which I forgot about. Thanks for reminding me.
You'd think, but it's a lot of work to look into every similar player on 30 teams and, besides, I imagine that they want to be competitive immediately and will gravitate to experience over youth, kind of like how Vegas chose Fleury over younger goalies that were available.
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True, but they need a fourth line too. If you think Trenin is the best young big bodied fourth liner with upside you take him right? I'm not saying that's the case but to build a team you need a fourth line too. Sure there are free agents or old guys/waiver wire types but you just never know what they could want.
Edit: Also, what else have they had to do this season but scout players?
Have to keep Trenin! His combination of size and speed works well for the offense and the defense.
Watch out! You are about to be trampled by the Herd Line. The so-called 4th line.
Regardless of the outcome, the Hurricanes will be happy not to see those three on the ice anymore.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
Vegas really put Seattle in a bad spot as far as expectations go. Reasonable folks will not believe they should be a year 1 playoff team, but plenty of people such as casual fans and perhaps including those who paid $500M (or was it $600M?) for that team, might believe that Vegas created a blueprint for success under the current expansion draft rules and expect that Francis should turn out an instant winner. If he has the pressure from ownership, he might go with a more veteran lineup for short term success, rather than gambling on potential in guys like Trenin, Jeannot, and Carrier.
GoldOnGold
Registered User
I like Trenin but I doubt Seattle would take him if exposed. I would think Jarnkrok or Sissons would be more tempting.
I used to think they would consider Ingram, but that now seems unlikely with his struggles this year.
I used to think they would consider Ingram, but that now seems unlikely with his struggles this year.
Well, if you were picking for Seattle, would you purposely select 4th liners because you need 4th liners? No, you'd pick either the 8th-best forward (likely a 3rd liner) or 5th-best forward (likely a 2nd liner), depending on how many forwards the team protected, and put some of them on your 4th line. That's part of what made Vegas good out of the gate.
True.
That's true, but, as I just pointed out, I think that the rules helped Vegas create a more competitive team than past expansion teams. Seattle has the same rules, so they can conceivably put together just as good of a roster. Now, the end result may not be as good for whatever reason, though.
You still need gritty players for the line not Arvidsson, it just depends on were they see the value for their team. Right?Well, if you were picking for Seattle, would you purposely select 4th liners because you need 4th liners? No, you'd pick either the 8th-best forward (likely a 3rd liner) or 5th-best forward (likely a 2nd liner), depending on how many forwards the team protected, and put some of them on your 4th line. That's part of what made Vegas good out of the gate.
True.
If I remember correctly, didn't Vegas flourish because of a mix of veterans and "throw aways" that were stuck in the press box or the AHL that they scouted and picked with a purpose?
Here’s what I would do if I was poile. First I’ve been on the phone with Seattle trying to get them to take one of our larger contracts. If it’s me I’m trying my best to get rid of duchene. I was back and forth between him and Joey but in the end I like what else joey brings to the ice if he’s not putting up points. I’ll easily give up this years first plus another roster player like Grimaldi or cousins. I don’t know what Seattle would want but I would sweeten the pot until he was gone. Now if that doesn’t work and Seattle declines I’m protecting forsberg arvi kunin josi ekholm Ellis fabbro and carrier. I get people want to leave arvi unprotected but I still think he still has stuff left in the tank and still can be a 25 goal scorer. I’m trading Ellis right after the expansion to the highest bidder. I still think you can get something good for him. I’ve been impressed with carrier so far and don’t want to lose him because I see him getting better and better and fabbro is still young and capable of improving more. Ellis has to get traded in my opinion and I think there will be some takers for him. Hopefully granlund signs for cheap
RainyCityHockey
Registered User
Hey there, Seattle fan here again.
Sure, some casual fans(and of course the national media outless) might think we can do what Vegas did but looking at basically every poll or discussion on that topic most Seattle hockey fans hope for a team that is exciting, a bit younger and might compete for a playoff spot.
And to me, the hope for a playoff spot lies in the fact we're in the Pacific Division and the only way to get there is if a couple of younger guys channel their inner William Karlsson.
Francis is known, looking at Carolina, to built through the draft and more thoroughly instead of just taking every opportunity to take on salary and somewhat bigger names.
He's also been given the reigns of the hockey side and with a guy like Tod Leiweke as the CEO of the Kraken, he should get enough support to built it "the right way".
We're also invested pretty heavily on analytics and Francis embrases them which tells me that going for bigger names, with big contracts and declining production, is not really the way this will go.
So most hockey people in Seattle are expecting him to go the more younger route, unless sweeteners are offered, to ice four lines that can skate and keep a good amount of cap flexibility for free agency.
BTW: We've paid $650 million for the team + $1.15 billion for the arena and another $250 million for the AHL arena.
I think there's one thing which helped Vegas that hardly ever gets talked about.
Time
They were announced about a year before they came in which hardly gave teams any time to adjust their rosters for the expansion draft.
We've been announced nearly 2 1/2 years before joining the league which gave teams way more time.
And you can clearly see that by how rosters are structured and by how GM's acted after that(for example there are only 52 NMC's this time around compared to 66 while Vegas was coming in) announcement.
I'm pretty sure this years first rounder and Grimaldi/Cousins won't entice Francis to take on five more years at $8M for Duchene.
That would take way more and I doubt both sides would find a deal.
Johansen, on the other hand, might be a possibility but that would also cost you quite a bit(at least a first rounder, if you believe what other GM's said about Francis demands during the deadline) IMO and you'd have to decide if that's worth it.
Sure, some casual fans(and of course the national media outless) might think we can do what Vegas did but looking at basically every poll or discussion on that topic most Seattle hockey fans hope for a team that is exciting, a bit younger and might compete for a playoff spot.
And to me, the hope for a playoff spot lies in the fact we're in the Pacific Division and the only way to get there is if a couple of younger guys channel their inner William Karlsson.
Francis is known, looking at Carolina, to built through the draft and more thoroughly instead of just taking every opportunity to take on salary and somewhat bigger names.
He's also been given the reigns of the hockey side and with a guy like Tod Leiweke as the CEO of the Kraken, he should get enough support to built it "the right way".
We're also invested pretty heavily on analytics and Francis embrases them which tells me that going for bigger names, with big contracts and declining production, is not really the way this will go.
So most hockey people in Seattle are expecting him to go the more younger route, unless sweeteners are offered, to ice four lines that can skate and keep a good amount of cap flexibility for free agency.
BTW: We've paid $650 million for the team + $1.15 billion for the arena and another $250 million for the AHL arena.
I think there's one thing which helped Vegas that hardly ever gets talked about.
Time
They were announced about a year before they came in which hardly gave teams any time to adjust their rosters for the expansion draft.
We've been announced nearly 2 1/2 years before joining the league which gave teams way more time.
And you can clearly see that by how rosters are structured and by how GM's acted after that(for example there are only 52 NMC's this time around compared to 66 while Vegas was coming in) announcement.
I'm pretty sure this years first rounder and Grimaldi/Cousins won't entice Francis to take on five more years at $8M for Duchene.
That would take way more and I doubt both sides would find a deal.
Johansen, on the other hand, might be a possibility but that would also cost you quite a bit(at least a first rounder, if you believe what other GM's said about Francis demands during the deadline) IMO and you'd have to decide if that's worth it.
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
To me, it's between Carrier and Ellis right now (Carrier, of course, for me). Then it's:
Forsberg, Joey, Kunin, Arvy
Josi, Ekholm, Fabbro, Carrier.
If they take Trenin or Jeannot, so be it. We'll still have the other. That forces them to take one of the bigger deals like Ellis or Sissons but I still think they'll end up taking Jarnkrok.
Forsberg, Joey, Kunin, Arvy
Josi, Ekholm, Fabbro, Carrier.
If they take Trenin or Jeannot, so be it. We'll still have the other. That forces them to take one of the bigger deals like Ellis or Sissons but I still think they'll end up taking Jarnkrok.
Armourboy
Hey! You suck!
- Aug 13, 2007
- 35,522
- 15,807
Protecting Arvy at this point is silly. Hes damaged goods and a shell of his former self. Ellis is the same, not as big a dropoff in play but a much worse contract than Arvy.
I appreciate the insight of the Seattle fan that Francis wouldnt want Duchene. If true that makes life much easier.
Protect Forsberg, Joey, Kunin and Jarnkrok.
Josi, Ekholm, Carrier, Fabbro.
Francis either releives us of a bad contract or a player in decline, or he takes a replaceable player like Sissons.
I appreciate the insight of the Seattle fan that Francis wouldnt want Duchene. If true that makes life much easier.
Protect Forsberg, Joey, Kunin and Jarnkrok.
Josi, Ekholm, Carrier, Fabbro.
Francis either releives us of a bad contract or a player in decline, or he takes a replaceable player like Sissons.
