Expansion draft discussion

[LostInMosEisley]

Basically having a handshake agreement with Landy and re-signing him after the draft.

Look at Pietrangelo. Drafted with a high pick by St. Louis, he became their captain, and he ended up going to UFA at 30. Most people figured he'd stay, but things change when a player can listen to offers from other teams. Taking a chance on letting Landy go to UFA at age 28 just to avoid having to protect him in an expansion draft doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[PAZ]

Sakic can ask EJ to waive and throw Seattle a 4th to not pick EJ, which is something they'd never consider anyways when Compher, Donskoi, Graves, etc. are on the table.

Look at Pietrangelo. Drafted with a high pick by St. Louis, he became their captain, and he ended up going to UFA at 30. Most people figured he'd stay, but things change when a player can listen to offers from other teams. Taking a chance on letting Landy go to UFA at age 28 just to avoid having to protect him in an expansion draft doesn't make a lot of sense.

Completely different situation. There were reports that Pietrangelo was interested in moving on unless his contract demands were met. There was some behind the scenes stuff that we don't know about either, but it should've been a sign when the Blues traded and signed Faulk.

If Landy is chasing the money, there's a good chance Sakic won't re-sign him anyways as I don't see Sakic willing to give him a 7-8 x 8.5 mil contract anyways.

 

[Richard88]

Yeah but in that scenario we're still stuck with Graves for 2 more years.

Unless Graves completely takes a cliff-dive in form next season I don't think it would be that difficult to trade him next offseason if needed. I mean, look at how highly Stan Bowman rated Zadorov, and then consider that Graves is at least as good as him. There's always going to be at least one GM enamoured with a 6'5'' 225lb Dman that can skate, and at $3.16m x 2 years he has enough term and a low enough caphit to make it worth acquiring him. If Graves has another regular season like this past one we could probably even get back at least one of the 2nd rounders we traded for Toews, if not both.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Clark did it too:

Another risky avenue Sakic and the front office could explore would be Landeskog’s situation. Landeskog is the only skater expected to be protected who will be a UFA after next season. Sakic said earlier this month the organization has already held initial discussions with Landeskog’s representatives about a new contract. Re-signing Landeskog to an extension means the Avalanche would protect him. Hypothetically, the Avs could elect to not re-sign Landeskog or leave him unprotected in the attempt to protect one more player.

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Basically having a handshake agreement with Landy and re-signing him after the draft.

He’s like the only one of our team I’m confident that we could pull that off with.

 

[Balthazar]

Look at Pietrangelo. Drafted with a high pick by St. Louis, he became their captain, and he ended up going to UFA at 30. Most people figured he'd stay, but things change when a player can listen to offers from other teams. Taking a chance on letting Landy go to UFA at age 28 just to avoid having to protect him in an expansion draft doesn't make a lot of sense.

To tell you the truth if Landy were to use that opportunity and sign with someone else I'd not be that sad. We all know it's going to be a bad contract.

Also it's not like we can't find another top 6er with the cap space, especially in the current market.

 

[Hasbro]

Sakic can ask EJ to waive and throw Seattle a 4th to not pick EJ, which is something they'd never consider anyways when Compher, Donskoi, Graves, etc. are on the table.

Not even that. There’s no way Seattle is passing up a more valuable asset to eat up $6M of cap space with EJ.

That’s the kind of contract teams will be paying Seattle to take of their hands.

 

[PAZ]

Not even that. There’s no way Seattle is passing up a more valuable asset to eat up $6M of cap space with EJ.

That’s the kind of contract teams will be paying Seattle to take of their hands.

It's more of a peace of mind/insurance for EJ. Tell him that they negotiated a deal where if he waives Seattle won't pick him because they gave up an asset. A lot easier to convince a player to waive their clause if they know they aren't going anywhere than have the 0.01% possibility that EJ is taken.

 

[Richard88]

To tell you the truth if Landy were to use that opportunity and sign with someone else I'd not be that sad. We all know it's going to be a bad contract.

Also it's not like we can't find another top 6er with the cap space, especially in the current market.

If Landeskog were to leave that would indeed free up a projected ~$8m that can be used to resign Saad and upgrade on one of Donskoi/Compher. Next years UFA class of forwards is pretty good too.

 

[LostInMosEisley]

To tell you the truth if Landy were to use that opportunity and sign with someone else I'd not be that sad. We all know it's going to be a bad contract.

Also it's not like we can't find another top 6er with the cap space, especially in the current market.

Fair, and I probably agree, but I doubt Sakic is thinking that, which is why they're working on an extension.

He’s like the only one of our team I’m confident that we could pull that off with.

I'd be way way more confident they can get EJ to waive for the draft.

 

[The Abusement Park]

I'd be way way more confident they can get EJ to waive for the draft.

Maybe. Why would EJ want to waive while being on a contending team and possibly have his life uprooted? I mean he most likely wouldn’t get picked, but still.

 

[Hasbro]

It's more of a peace of mind/insurance for EJ. Tell him that they negotiated a deal where if he waives Seattle won't pick him because they gave up an asset. A lot easier to convince a player to waive their clause if they know they aren't going anywhere than have the 0.01% possibility that EJ is taken.

EJ isn’t dumb, otherwise he would have gone to North Dakota. He knows damn well Seattle will not take him.

 

[McMetal]

I just can't see Seattle taking an exposed EJ anymore unless we pay a hefty price to entice them. There will be loads of teams begging to dump their bad contracts on Seattle, and it's not like they have infinite space to take on every overpaid player. They'll be choosy about who they take.

Maybe before the flat cap there was a chance they would want EJ, but now that their cap space is their most valuable asset they're more likely to take Jost and use the cap space to burn some other team. They won't take on that salary for free.

 

[PAZ]

Not even that. There’s no way Seattle is passing up a more valuable asset to eat up $6M of cap space with EJ.

That’s the kind of contract teams will be paying Seattle to take of their hands.

EJ isn’t dumb, otherwise he would have gone to North Dakota. He knows damn well Seattle will take him.

Wait, i'm confused...

 

[shadow1]

The Johnson situation might become tricky if he chooses not to waive his NMC, which is well within his right considering it's part of his contract.

The Johnson situation will not become tricky due to Seattle selecting him. He'll be making $6M per year and going on age 34. If the 2017 Expansion draft is any indication, there will be oodles of defensemen available. Here's a quick snap shot of some notable names who were left unprotected, but Vegas did not select:

(Keep in mind Vegas had deals with some teams not to select a certain player. This is just a list of some defensemen who were left unprotected)

Z. Bogosian
B. Chariot
C. De Haan
D. DeMelo
B. Dillon
M. Dumba
D. Kulikov
J. Manson
J. Oleksiak
K. Shattenkirk
M. Weegar
S. Vatanen

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Fair, and I probably agree, but I doubt Sakic is thinking that, which is why they're working on an extension.

Working on an extension now does not mean there couldn't be a handshake agreement until the XD is done. Landy is one NHL player I would be very comfortable doing this with. He is totally committed to the Avs and vice versa. As long as they agree on a number before hand there shouldn't be any risk of Seattle taking him. Why would Seattle waste a selection on a guy they have no chance of signing.

With that said both sides would be taking a pretty big risk. If Landy has a serious injury he would have to trust the Avs to abide by the handshake agreement. The Avs would risk to have to keep their word in that case but they are taking that risk anyway with signing him a year in advance. However there is a big difference in perception between having to pay a contract that was signed as an extension vice paying it because you gave your word. Josh might have something to say about that.

 

[LostInMosEisley]

Maybe. Why would EJ want to waive while being on a contending team and possibly have his life uprooted? I mean he most likely wouldn’t get picked, but still.

Well if they told him they'd have to trade him or buy him out if he didn't waive, then waiving would be the only way his life wouldn't be uprooted. If he needed more assurances than that the Avs can offer Seattle a late round pick not to take a player they probably aren't taking anyway.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Well if they told him they'd have to trade him or buy him out if he didn't waive, then waiving would be the only way his life wouldn't be uprooted. If he needed more assurances than that the Avs can offer Seattle a late round pick not to take a player they probably aren't taking anyway.

You still have to find a team that can afford to take him on and protect him. A trade isn’t as easy as it sounds.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

That’s a stupid way of doing something. Why would you not have a half hour conversation to resolve the issue and as far as I know end of season exit interviews with every player are standard.



We’re prepared to lose a good player, what we want is the Avalanche to gain an advantage from the expansion draft.7+3 you can steer Seattle to taking $3M + off the cap for the Avalanche (Graves probably). 4x4 the Avs open them selves up to the worse scenarios of losing of losing a better player than Graves OR Seattle taking a cheaper guy like Jost or Nuke and leaving the Avalanche having a harder time clearing out salary.

EJ has absolutely no reason at all to waive his NTC.


I'm sure the Avs will ask(Foolish to even think they've asked him already) when the time comes... But for now, Expansion draft is going to be very far down the list of things Joe Sakic has on his mind.


We're the Stanley Cup favorites, heavy favorites for that matter along with Tampa Bay. Every single decision that gets made right now is being made solely with the goal of winning the stanley cup in 2021. The Expansion draft and what happens with that easily takes a back seat right now and EJ is going to be an important part of whether we win the cup this coming season or not. You do not ask an important player about waiving his NTC in a years time when you're trying to win a cup. You worry about that later on. Just like Tampa and Tyler Johnson, they didn't have a single conversation about his NTC/NMC until after the 2020 season was over and the time had come to make those tough calls.

 

[henchman21]

Is it even important to ask EJ to waive his NTC right now? He can be traded to 19 teams that he has to provide a list for. There are less than a handful of teams in the league that would be willing to protect EJ in an expansion draft due to having better or more preferred players. If there is overlap on those lists, then that is where you'd trade EJ. If there isn't overlap, EJ is well within his rights to not waive. The guy was stuck on shitty teams for most of his career, don't blame him a bit to want to control his situation. Worst case he gets bought at 2/3 his salary and has to make up 1/3... considering he's still a useful player, that's reasonable... and he'd have full control as to where.

 

[LostInMosEisley]

You still have to find a team that can afford to take him on and protect him. A trade isn’t as easy as it sounds.

A trade doesn't even sound easy and I'm not implying it is. In this context telling EJ they'd have to look at trading him or buying him out is just a way to get leverage to get him to agree to waive. If they actually had to resort to it because EJ wouldn't a buyout is more likely but they can still explore trade options first.

 

[Hasbro]

Wait, i'm confused...

Will not.

 

[Hasbro]

EJ has absolutely no reason at all to waive his NTC.

Avoiding a buyout and insuring he's on a the best team possible going forward are good reasons.

 

[TruePowerSlave]

The only way EJ is traded is if the Avs add a 1st or something very tempting. You are getting an expensive injury prone veteran who needs to be protected in the expansion draft. Nobody is searching for that.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Avoiding a buyout and insuring he's on a the best team possible going forward are good reasons.

Avoiding a buyout isn't a reason at all. If he gets bought out, he earns 2/3s of his salary anyway, and then he's free to literally sign a contract with any of the other 31 teams in the league. Considering he is still a useful player, lots of cup contenders would definitely be interested in signing him and he would be able to pick and chose where he wants to go.


Agreeing to waive his NMC does exactly the opposite of what you just said. He loses all control of his situation by doing that, it opens himself up to being selected by Seattle.

 

[Hasbro]

Is it even important to ask EJ to waive his NTC right now?

Good to knlw before you trade for Toews and it would suck for him playing under a shadow all year.[/quote]

He can be traded to 19 teams that he has to provide a list for.

Which means there are 12 teams he can block a trade to and at the moment there are 11 teams with $6million in cap space and the Avalanche would have to pay to get another team to take him.

Worst case he gets bought at 2/3 his salary and has to make up 1/3... considering he's still a useful player, that's reasonable... and he'd have full control as to where.

Except it wouldn't be in Denver by rule AND a historically bad situationfor free agents.