Speculation: Expansion Draft Discussion Part III - The Final Haul

[417]

KHL reporter claiming Dandanov is going to Vegas

Does anyone still really think Radulov is going there?

 

[Belial]

You say this...

Yet you argue that he can have a bounce back season

under WHAT circumstances?

Stop dancing around my question, either admit you have no idea or answer it

What are we even arguing here? Bounce back on the Habs or bounce back in Vegas?

Because the way he was used on the Habs this season, in the role of a shutdown center with defensive assignments ~30 points is nothing to sneeze at!

I'm going to give you a shot at explaining your stance here...

If you're saying "who cares" how many minutes he played because all of those minutes were 'tough' minutes in defensive situations.

Are you suggesting that the Habs should remove those difficult assignments and instead, give him easy minutes in order for him to have a bounce back year?

In other words, are you arguing to have Tomas Plekanec as a top 6C on this team next year>?

So how will this change in order for him to be able to bounce back? Should he start 75% of his shifts int he offensive zone?

So explain what your alternative is as it relates to Plekanec? How can the Habs best position him in order for him to have a 'bounce back season'?

If I understand correctly, and please, correct me if I'm wrong...

You want the Habs to change Plekanec's role from a tough minute-eating center to a #1 or #2C who gets easy matchups and offensive zone starts?

If Vegas doesn't pick him he will be our third line center and his role will remain the same, tough minutes, defensive zone starts, PK galore!

Why are you talking about a bounce back?

Considering how he was used he didn't have an abysmal season!

The only reason people crap on him it's because he's making 6M per year. Give me Plekanec at 3M per year on my third line any day of the week!

 

[Habaneros]

For the weekend? Or the whole week?

forever

Aivis Kalniņš‏ @A_Kalnins

Appears Vegas Golden Knights and Evgeni Dadonov have resumed contract talks and he is likely to end up playing in Vegas next season.

 

[417]

What are we even arguing here? Bounce back on the Habs or bounce back in Vegas?

Oh in Vegas you're talking about?

Sure, he could bounce back there...they can give him the icetime he NEEDS to produce points. He can go over there and center their 2nd line, get some PP time, etc and maybe bounce back with 35-40pts and be a decent asset at the deadline for VGK.

But the Habs can't afford to give him that same kind of role...so he's not going to bounce back WITH the Habs.

Because the way he was used on the Habs this season, in the role of a shutdown center with defensive assignments ~30 points is nothing to sneeze at!

It's something to cry about, be ashamed about...sure

If Vegas doesn't pick him he will be our third line center and his role will remain the same, tough minutes, defensive zone starts, PK galore!

We can get all of this from Danault at a fraction of the cost

Why are you talking about a bounce back?

Huh? YOU brought up him having a bounce back season lol

Considering how he was used he didn't have an abysmal season!

Abysmal would be putting it lightly

The only reason people crap on him it's because he's making 6M per year. Give me Plekanec at 3M per year on my third line any day of the week

He doesn't make 3M per year, he makes 6M...so this is irrelevant

 

[Belial]

Oh in Vegas you're talking about?
Sure, he could bounce back there...they can give him the icetime he NEEDS to produce points. He can go over there and center their 2nd line, get some PP time, etc and maybe bounce back with 35-40pts and be a decent asset at the deadline for VGK.
But the Habs can't afford to give him that same kind of role...so he's not going to bounce back WITH the Habs.
It's something to cry about, be ashamed about...sure
We can get all of this from Danault at a fraction of the cost
Huh? YOU brought up him having a bounce back season lol
Abysmal would be putting it lightly
He doesn't make 3M per year, he makes 6M...so this is irrelevant

I think Vegas picks him up and uses him in an offensive role to pump up his value and then trades him at the TDL by retaining his full salary. Anyways this is what I would do if I would be McPhee.

You're saying Danault can do all that for a fraction of the price, while I agree I don't think Danault is as good defensively yet but definitely could get there with more games.

The problem with this scenario is that you apparently got 2 top 6 centers somehow....

I hope we get one! But two? I mean, it's wishful thinking IMO.

 

[417]

I think Vegas picks him up and uses him in an offensive role to pump up his value and then trades him at the TDL by retaining his full salary. Anyways this is what I would do if I would be McPhee.

You're saying Danault can do all that for a fraction of the price, while I agree I don't think Danault is as good defensively yet but definitely could get there with more games.

The problem with this scenario is that you apparently got 2 top 6 centers somehow....

I hope we get one! But two? I mean, it's wishful thinking IMO.

It doesn't matter because Tomas Plekanec is not going to be a top 6C for this team moving forward.

 

[Habaneros]

Chris Nichols‏ @NicholsOnHockey 35m35 minutes ago

LeBrun: "Unless our information is completely wrong, Marc-Andre Fleury is the pick for Vegas - which means all those other guys are safe."

.........

 

[Scotianhab]

Are they going to announce any trades involving Vegas during the award show as well?

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Are they going to announce any trades involving Vegas during the award show as well?

Well they are revealing the Vegas roster so they wouldn't really have much choice.

 

[Belial]

Are they going to announce any trades involving Vegas during the award show as well?

Interesting question, I guess they'll have no choice but to announce trades if a team sent picks in order to protect someone or to select a player in particular.

Because if McPhee says: from New York Islanders we're proud to select Mikhail Grabovski when there's Nelson, Strome, and de Haan unprotected, without announcing a trade it will be quite weird.

 

[Scotianhab]

Well they are revealing the Vegas roster so they wouldn't really have much choice.

I wasn't sure. I thought maybe they'd announce the 30 players and then Thursday morning announce any deals involving picked players and any conditions attached. I know the rest of the league can complete/announce trades Thursday as well. Just curious.

 

[No More Subban]

For the weekend? Or the whole week?

If Dadonov loves to party, he could also go to Buffalo.

Nate's there.

 

[Wats]

I was talking about 5yrs ago

I don't get your point then. If he's a good center that's worth a lot, why trade him unless the plan is a tank/full rebuild? He's a 30 yr old 5 years ago, 2 years younger than Weber is now.

The concept of trading for a top 6 C has yet to happen even though we've known it to be an issue for years. If we trade Plekanec, it would have only made sense coupled with a rebuild because the likelihood of Habs having a replacement is fantasy.

 

[dannyfinn22]

Expansion Draft comments of the Day

"If this team was the Quebec Nordiques, Bettam would make sure they drafted 10th overall and the Unprotected list would only be composed of players 35 and over."

"With todays report LV's George McPhee has two side deals, one with the NY Islanders and one with the Rangers, watch his moves with those teams, as he has former ties to both"

 

[MasterDecoy]

Plek is the guy that everyone said he was done 5 years ago and when he's finally on the decline, everyone can say 'see? Told you he was done'.

He would be a good choice for vegas if they want to compete now

 

[vokiel]

Plek is the guy that everyone said he was done 5 years ago and when he's finally on the decline, everyone can say 'see? Told you he was done'.

He would be a good choice for vegas if they want to compete now

At 6 million for ~30 points, no. Still really not convinced at all. Vegas can get better centers for cheaper and they are going to have problems fitting their picks under the cap as opposed to have problems reaching the floor. Vegas selecting Plekanec is wishful thinking at best.

 

[BigHabs]

At 6 million for ~30 points, no. Still really not convinced at all. Vegas can get better centers for cheaper and they are going to have problems fitting their picks under the cap as opposed to have problems reaching the floor. Vegas selecting Plekanec is wishful thinking at best.

TSN projected the other day that with an expensive defense they will draft and goaltending they will just reach above the cap floor and that's drafting decent forwards and that's including brock nelson.

They will have room to take on contracts no problem.

To say taking Plekanec is wishful thinking is wrong. The rumored deal has Vegas taking on Kulemin + Grabovski for a 1st. Now the Habs woldnt need to offer a first as both of those players are much more done than Plekanec. Grabovski isn't even playing. So don't downplay Plekanec being not value able to Vegas.

 

[417]

I don't get your point then. If he's a good center that's worth a lot, why trade him unless the plan is a tank/full rebuild? He's a 30 yr old 5 years ago, 2 years younger than Weber is now.

The concept of trading for a top 6 C has yet to happen even though we've known it to be an issue for years. If we trade Plekanec, it would have only made sense coupled with a rebuild because the likelihood of Habs having a replacement is fantasy.

That's my point...when Bergevin took over hebl should of cleaned house

Furthermore, after the back to back elimination and BEFORE Plekanex contract extension, he should of maximised his value THEN.

This isn't revisionist theory either... I argued, vehemently and was shredded for it, that he should of moved him THEN.

 

[417]

Plek is the guy that everyone said he was done 5 years ago and when he's finally on the decline, everyone can say 'see? Told you he was done'.

He would be a good choice for vegas if they want to compete now

I never argued he was done 5yrs ago...that's just something some people have decided to make up because I've ended up being 100% right when it comes to Plekanex.

What I argued THEN was that his value would never be higher than what it was THEN and given the Habs were a team that had just finished 3rd last overall, it was the perfect opportunity to reshape your roster.

The assets we would of gotten for Plekanex THEN could of been used to build the team today.

Look at what a guy like Antoine Vermette got traded for a few years ago...1st round pick and a prospect.

Plekanex was better...see what the Yotes for Hanzal at the deadline this year?

The Habs could of positioned themselves similarly...instead we've got a washed up Plekanex making top 6 money for bottom 6 production.

Furthermore, we can't bring in another top center without moving his contract... not to mention the 5yrs of development wasted for a guy like Galchenyuk.

Again...I often go back and read those old Plekanex threads, some real gems

 

[417]

TSN projected the other day that with an expensive defense they will draft and goaltending they will just reach above the cap floor and that's drafting decent forwards and that's including brock nelson.

They will have room to take on contracts no problem.

To say taking Plekanec is wishful thinking is wrong. The rumored deal has Vegas taking on Kulemin + Grabovski for a 1st. Now the Habs woldnt need to offer a first as both of those players are much more done than Plekanec. Grabovski isn't even playing. So don't downplay Plekanec being not value able to Vegas.

Kulemin much more done than Plekanex?

Perhaps so...but Kulemin scored more goals than Plekanex and he 5 less points in 6 less games but with MUCH less icetime than our resident Selke candidate.

If you think Kulemin is done...Plekanex isn't too far behind

 

[japhi]

At 6 million for ~30 points, no. Still really not convinced at all. Vegas can get better centers for cheaper and they are going to have problems fitting their picks under the cap as opposed to have problems reaching the floor. Vegas selecting Plekanec is wishful thinking at best.

They are not going to have any trouble staying under the cap. The team I picked had 47mm in total cap. The two TSN teams had 45mm. They aren't going to take guys with big deals and term like Gaborik.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Kulemin much more done than Plekanex?

Perhaps so...but Kulemin scored more goals than Plekanex and he 5 less points in 6 less games but with MUCH less icetime than our resident Selke candidate.

If you think Kulemin is done...Plekanex isn't too far behind

Kulemin has 1 30 point season in the last 6 years where Plekanec has 1 season under 30 points...

Plekanecs career is coming to a close, he will be 35 in October. Only this passed season can you even compare the two, but they have 4 years difference.

 

[417]

Kulemin has 1 30 point season in the last 6 years where Plekanec has 1 season under 30 points...

Plekanecs career is coming to a close, he will be 35 in October. Only this passed season can you even compare the two, but they have 4 years difference.

I was just responding to the poster who indicated that Kulemin is done...

If he's done, then Plekanec isn't that far behind.

I wasn't comparing their career accomplishments.

 

[Andy]

I never argued he was done 5yrs ago...that's just something some people have decided to make up because I've ended up being 100% right when it comes to Plekanex.

What I argued THEN was that his value would never be higher than what it was THEN and given the Habs were a team that had just finished 3rd last overall, it was the perfect opportunity to reshape your roster.

The assets we would of gotten for Plekanex THEN could of been used to build the team today.

Look at what a guy like Antoine Vermette got traded for a few years ago...1st round pick and a prospect.

Plekanex was better...see what the Yotes for Hanzal at the deadline this year?

The Habs could of positioned themselves similarly...instead we've got a washed up Plekanex making top 6 money for bottom 6 production.

Furthermore, we can't bring in another top center without moving his contract... not to mention the 5yrs of development wasted for a guy like Galchenyuk.

Again...I often go back and read those old Plekanex threads, some real gems

A few points:

Aside from last season, Plekanec was the team's most productive centre during the MB regime. Actually, he was one of the team's most productive forwards in general.

Keeping Plekanec didn't result in the 5 years of wasted development of Galchenyuk, the pigeon holing of DD next to Pacioretty for 4 years was a far greater contributor to this. Putting Galchenyuk at centre and keeping Plekanec were not even close to being mutually exclusive options.

Trading Plekanec would have left a gaping hole at centre for a team whose mandate was to make the playoffs. While trading would have returned some nice pieces, it would have put a dent in the organizations plans. Whether or not you agree with those plans is a different question, but when you take into account, trading Plekanec isn't so clear cut.

The problem with Plekanec is the same as the one with Koivu, he was a secondary offensive centre being miscast as a 1b guy. He would have been perfectly fine in a secondary role playing second fiddle to a 70-80 point first line centre.

Your hyperbole regarding Plekanec seldom matched reality. Sure, he could have garnered a good return, but several players on the club could as well. As such, they are not sufficient reasons for trading him. He was the team's best centre, and while that is a problem for a team that wants to win a cup, the only solution isn't to trade him, make a hole and hope someone replaces it. Trading him would have hurt the Canadiens in the short term and guaranteed nothing in the long-term.

Plekanec didn't prevent the team from succeeding. Instead not getting a bonafide first line centre was one of the reasons the team has seen little success in the playoffs, and similar to what I mentioned, getting a bonafide centre and keeping plekanec weren't two mutually exclusive options at the time.

 

[donghabs98]

This would have never happened due to Bergy's attachment to Shaw but the smart thing to do would have been to protect Hudon and leave Shaw unprotected, basically Vegas has to take either a bad contract in Pleky, Emelin or Shaw or a minor player in Davidson