Expansion Draft Discussion II

[Cash for Nash]

They (the fans) are more than willing to sacrifice him.

The art of the an expansion draft is to get the expansion team to take the player that you want them to. If the FO decides that is Karlsson then so be it. I think it's a mistake. The player(s) that I might leave open to expansion are probably different than others. Heck the players are that available for protection could very well change before the expansion draft. I'm not even convinced that if we expose Karlsson that he will third on the list of priorities from Vegas.

Also all our astute fans think that he will be the player "of value" that we expose and that Vegas will want him.

We love to talk as things exist now, with our own set of values and pretend that is how things are going to be at the expansion draft. To be honest, it's been a dead horse for a while and really should be picked up when the list is set in stone. Not sure how many times and by how many people Karlsson will be the odd man out. Must be at 30+ by now.

Heck there is even talk of signing players just to expose them. Odds are a guy like Quincy would still be here after the draft. Well done, a depth player you might not even want.

I can tell you right now our fans would not be thrilled on who I asked to waive their NMC/NTC and who would end up on the list.

Id ask foligno to waive his nmc as well

 

[DarkandStormy]

Harrington is going to be the healthy scratch extra d-man next season. I think....

If he's here (which is a big IF), he'll be the #8 or #9 Dman, depending on what Vegas does.

 

[cbjgirl]

Each team loses one and only one player. While I haven't done any research concerning who other teams will need to expose, it is a pretty safe bet that who Vegas gets to choose from is the Karlsson, Johnson, Anderson equivalents from EVERY team. Is Karlsson the best "Karlsson" option available? One of the top four "Karlsson" options in the league? Same with Johnson.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Each team loses one and only one player. While I haven't done any research concerning who other teams will need to expose, it is a pretty safe bet that who Vegas gets to choose from is the Karlsson, Johnson, Anderson equivalents from EVERY team. Is Karlsson the best "Karlsson" option available? One of the top four "Karlsson" options in the league? Same with Johnson.

Look up defense on Minnesota, LAK, Nashville, certain other teams. Some teams have 4-5 really good Dmen and they won't be able to protect all of them (unless we see a rash of "here...take this mid-level prospect and/or pick to NOT select player X."

 

[cbjgirl]

Look up defense on Minnesota, LAK, Nashville, certain other teams. Some teams have 4-5 really good Dmen and they won't be able to protect all of them (unless we see a rash of "here...take this mid-level prospect and/or pick to NOT select player X."

This is kind of my point, are the guys from the CBJ that people are concerned about losing the best at their role when you look around the league?

For those of us that have been CBJ fans from the beginning (I know they tweaked the expansion draft rules and there is only one team) the types of guys usually exposed are 2/3 line tweeners for forwards and 2nd pairing defensemen that are "middle-aged" hockey players. That is why you end up with a team full of Dubinsky types the first couple of years (guys with chips on their shoulders who are adequate at everything and not great at anything).

If this team can't handle losing one guy, regardless of who it is, there are severe problems with how the team is constructed. Every team in the league is in the same boat here.

 

[JacketsFanWest]

Each team loses one and only one player. While I haven't done any research concerning who other teams will need to expose, it is a pretty safe bet that who Vegas gets to choose from is the Karlsson, Johnson, Anderson equivalents from EVERY team. Is Karlsson the best "Karlsson" option available? One of the top four "Karlsson" options in the league? Same with Johnson.

It doesn't really matter how many of a position they take. Their scout said they might take 7 goalies. Vegas isn't building their team from the expansion draft. What it seems like their plan is to hold an auction for players available.

If another team wants Jack Johnson, they tell Vegas and Vegas asks them what they'll give them for him. If multiple teams want Johnson, they hold a bidding war. Or if a team wants Karlsson, then they have to offer more than the team that wants Johnson. It doesn't sound like many of the players drafted will actually end up playing for Vegas, that's why announcing the draft results at the awards ceremony seems silly.

 

[SavesEmNot]

Nashville could opt to protect 8 skaters and a goalie. That would allow them to protect Johansen, Forsberg, Arvidsson, Neal, Josi, Subban, Ellis, Ekholm, and Rinne. That doesn't mean they'll do it, but they can protect their most important defensemen. Minnesota is in a tough situation with regards to that position.

 

[cbjgirl]

It doesn't really matter how many of a position they take. Their scout said they might take 7 goalies. Vegas isn't building their team from the expansion draft. What it seems like their plan is to hold an auction for players available.

If another team wants Jack Johnson, they tell Vegas and Vegas asks them what they'll give them for him. If multiple teams want Johnson, they hold a bidding war. Or if a team wants Karlsson, then they have to offer more than the team that wants Johnson. It doesn't sound like many of the players drafted will actually end up playing for Vegas, that's why announcing the draft results at the awards ceremony seems silly.

From my perspective this doesn't change what I've been saying. It just means that some GM (any GM) in the league thinks that our 3rd line center (insert any position here) is more desirable than that same player position available from any other team in the league.

Vegas is in an interesting position. Could be lots of moving pieces, of which we only lose one.

 

[blahblah]

So that's who "they" is in the age-old "that's what they say".

I said everything you just said here in my post. Except the part about the stupid fans, which I agree with. I mean, any dolt who wastes time on a message board...

Actually I don't think the fans are stupid (not that I think you did either). I just did to think that a lot of fans get caught up the numbers less than watching their play in all three zones. It's why I don't rate a Savard as highly as most of the fans around here.

To be honest, I'm probably wrong with my analysis. Here it goes.

The first player I would ask to move their NMC is Bob. I would also ask Foligno, Hartnell, and Dubinsky. It's not an issue where I don't value those players.

My personal protection list doesn't have a player over 24 outside of Atkinson. I steer them toward Savard or Bob. If Hartnell doesn't bend I'd buy him out (assuming we can before the expansion draft, haven't looked how the dates line up).

Here's the deal, we will only lose one player. But I'd put our veterans on notice that we need more from them. Not one of them did squat in the playoffs (most faded from Feb on). When your best player is Werenski by a mile and your best forward is probably a toss up between Karlsson, Jenner, and Anderson.... Crap forgot Calvert.

My motives are probably different than most around here. This franchise has shown more than enough loyalty to these players.

 

[EspenK]

Actually I don't think the fans are stupid (not that I think you did either). I just did to think that a lot of fans get caught up the numbers less than watching their play in all three zones. It's why I don't rate a Savard as highly as most of the fans around here.

To be honest, I'm probably wrong with my analysis. Here it goes.

The first player I would ask to move their NMC is Bob. I would also ask Foligno, Hartnell, and Dubinsky. It's not an issue where I don't value those players.

My personal protection list doesn't have a player over 24 outside of Atkinson. I steer them toward Savard or Bob. If Hartnell doesn't bend I'd buy him out (assuming we can before the expansion draft, haven't looked how the dates line up).

Here's the deal, we will only lose one player. But I'd put our veterans on notice that we need more from them. Not one of them did squat in the playoffs (most faded from Feb on). When your best player is Werenski by a mile and your best forward is probably a toss up between Karlsson, Jenner, and Anderson.... Crap forgot Calvert.

My motives are probably different than most around here. This franchise has shown more than enough loyalty to these players.

I believe the buyout window opens the later of 6/15 or 48 hours after the end of the SC. I can't believe the league would be so stupid(well, it is the NHL) to schedule the SC finals to possibly end after the expansion draft which is set for 6/18-6/20.

 

[Mayor Bee]

It's worth pointing out that Mike Foligno is a scout with Vegas, and leaving Nick unprotected may create a very unpleasant situation. From an off-ice standpoint, he's gone well above and beyond what previous captains have done and has really become a major part of the community.

Speaking strictly on-ice, I'd keep Foligno over Calvert, Karlsson, Sedlak, etc. The idea to ask him to waive in order to keep one of them protected is foolish. Hartnell waive to keep Anderson? Sure. Dubinsky to keep one of those three? I don't think Dubinsky would be claimed, so sure. Foligno? No way.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'm pretty sure if we exposed Foligno or Dubinsky they would be picked over Karlsson, Johnson, or Korpisalo. We have to remember that Vegas isn't going to pick the youngest roster ever, they're going to need some vets to lead the way. These guys would fit the bill. I am assuming we would ask one of these two to waive to keep Anderson and someone else like Calvert or Karlsson (assuming Hartnell waives), so I would imagine Vegas would pick one of these two and make them captain immediately.

 

[blahblah]

The idea to ask him to waive in order to keep one of them protected is foolish

And yet that wasn't remotely the point of my asking (if I were the GM) Foligno to waive his NMC.

Yeah, I get it... He's a good guy. For some reason you would be afraid to lose him and, yet, I'm not. Nothing like your captain and third most expensive player play at a 30 point pace post all star game. When the PP cooled down he disappeared. Not even sure I want to see another 4 years of our good guy. If Foligno scores around a 10% percentage he's back down to 18 goals.

 

[DarkandStormy]

The first player I would ask to move their NMC is Bob.

I steer them toward Savard or Bob.

Lose Vezina goalie for nothing AND be stuck with Korpisalo as your starter?

 

[theD86]

Lose Vezina goalie for nothing AND be stuck with Korpisalo as your starter?

Or Foresberg? No thank you..... Wouldn't sniff the playoffs for 2-3 years

 

[EspenK]

Friedman speculating on a big deal between Columbus & Vegas

https://www.fanragsports.com/news/friedman-looks-off-season-issues-facing-blue-jackets/

 

[theD86]

Porty had this in his chat yesterday..........

Comment From Jed
Do you see the CBJ making any deals prior to the expansion draft to avoid losing a player without something in return?

Comment From Portzline
Well, every team has talked extensively with Vegas. CBJ GM Jarmo Kekalainen even played tennis with Vegas GM George McPhee recently - presumably at the GM meetings -- and you know deals get done when the racquets come out. I can see them making a deal with Vegas to “steer” them to a certain player on the roster. I don’t see the Blue Jackets trading players they might have to expose just to avoid exposing them.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Give up mediocre to unknown assets (future picks) to guarantee losing a mediocre asset instead of losing one decent asset? Is that the deal? Or like, "hey pick Anderson, but trade him back to us for Calvert and a 5th?" That's not really a "big deal."

Unless Vegas can pick up a player they want, and then they offer them Murray+ for said player? I don't know. Just spitballing.

 

[theD86]

I was thinking Hartnell. But, sure Calvert works as well.

 

[Viqsi]

Give up mediocre to unknown assets (future picks) to guarantee losing a mediocre asset instead of losing one decent asset? Is that the deal? Or like, "hey pick Anderson, but trade him back to us for Calvert and a 5th?" That's not really a "big deal."

Unless Vegas can pick up a player they want, and then they offer them Murray+ for said player? I don't know. Just spitballing.

True, but the report is just "potential for big", not "if it happens it'll be big".

 

[CBJx614]

McPhee open minded to trading for draft picks to protect players.


http://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/19256694

General manager George McPhee says the Vegas Golden Knights are open for business to any teams seeking to protect their players in the upcoming NHL expansion draft.

McPhee told The Associated Press he already had preliminary discussions with most teams over what trades could be made before the draft is held in Las Vegas on June 21, two days before the traditional draft. Without going into much detail, McPhee said talks have focused on which players teams would prefer the Golden Knights either select or don't.

In exchange, McPhee is open to acquiring draft picks to begin stockpiling for depth. The team opens its first season in October.

"If they want to give us draft picks to encourage us to take a certain player or leave another player alone, we're open-minded and we're going to listen to everyone," McPhee said. "You usually build your team, historically, through the entry draft, so we'd certainly be interested in acquiring picks."

 

[CBJSlash]

"Big" and addresses our problems?

Hartnell doesn't classify this way, plus I can't imagine him going to Vegas at this stage.

The only two pieces that are "big" and conceivable would be Saad and Bob.

Bob is curious because LV will have their pickings of some very good goalies. We get the best available goalie in their draft. Shave 7 million. Give up the Vezina. The only thing that feels conceivable and "big".

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

"Big" and addresses our problems?

Hartnell doesn't classify this way, plus I can't imagine him going to Vegas at this stage.

The only two pieces that are "big" and conceivable would be Saad and Bob.

Bob is curious because LV will have their pickings of some very good goalies. We get the best available goalie in their draft. Shave 7 million. Give up the Vezina. The only thing that feels conceivable and "big".

Something like this seems too complicated and based on so many contingencies. Would Bob even waive his NMC? What goalies are available for Vegas to select in the first place? Are any of them justifiable to trade for? Just doesn't seem like a wise move to downgrade on Bob just to save 2-3 million on the cap when $$ will be coming off the books (Johnson, Calvert, Hartnell, etc) in the next year to two.

 

[CBJx614]

I don't think many people understand without Bob there is no streak and possibly no playoffs. There's no way you ask Bob to do anything but repeat what he did in the regular season and we'll worry about the playoffs if and when we get there.

 

[CBJSlash]

I am not advocating the move. I don't think it would be a good idea in principle, but you don't know what else would be in a deal like that. Do we like someone like Ben Bishop for around 5? Lots of unknowns.

What else could be "big" and address cap issues today and in the future?