GDT: Exhibition • Dec. 20 • Finland 3, Canada 2

[VictorLustig]

That second goal wasn't weak. Subban did not see anything and the shot went into the top corner. The third one was a bit weak but it was not really an easy save either.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

That second goal wasn't weak. Subban did not see anything and the shot went into the top corner. The third one was a bit weak but it was not really an easy save either.

Third save any OHL goalie could make. Even Ballie of the Knights. The second went top corner because it went off Subban that then up and in.

 

[ODAAT]

Subban was hardly pathetic. But a great goalie likely stops 2 of those 3 goals. And we need him to be great. The teams discipline let them down way more than Subban did. They all need to get better for when the games matter.

3rd goal the ONLY goal I fault the kid on, first one on the 5 on 3 was a perfectly executed one timer by Armia, the second one went through 3-4 players and in, not saying we don`t need him to be great however, we hardly need anyone to be great in a game like this, tis why they are called tune ups

 

[smack66]

Quite possible, but hard to believe it could get any worse. That said, Subban has been just awful. Pathetic display between the pipes today.

REALLY!!!!!? Two five on three goals = pathetic? I grant you he didn't play great ( maybe he was focused on the Mayan apocalypse ?? ). Then again, perhaps I shouldn't challenge your assessment seeing as you are a leafs fan and have great knowledge of pathetic goaltending..

 

[Atomos2]

I wouldn't be surprised if you don't. You go on (Again) brining up the -1 which really makes me think you didn't watch it. They talked about it on the broadcast, Wotherspoon screwed up and Subban let in a softie that he should have stopped. The people who's opinion matter thought he was the best.

I may feel like it? Well my opinion doesn't matter, nor does yours. On the other hand, the coaches who picked player of the game think he did.

And no, it's not proof. I'm serious, why the **** do you think those are official Team Canada lineup cards (First of all, they do not have lineup cards, they dress players and scratch others, you will never get full lines published)? Give me a reason besides repeating the same bull over and over. Those are NOT official. They mean as much as the incorrect jersey numbers this thread had in the first post. Murphy was clearly not the 7th defensemen during the game, and not just later on, but right off the bat.



No just a guy who's been hating on Murphy for a long time and saying he sucks when he's had good games for about as long. I just ignore him now, no use arguing with him.

And you know this how? These are international competitions, show me proof if it's exact as you say it is. I've shown you proof and you denied it, so show me. After all, no one can take your assessments of Murphy seriously because of your bias.

Murphy had a good performance in terms of puck possession. He did not create many scoring chances on his own, but he ended up passing off to others that created good scoring chances and he held the puck a good deal and evaded defenders. He had a few giveaways and made a few bad decisions trying to skate his way through the opposing Finnish defence who were using their trap formation to clog up the neutral ice. He was guilty of holding the puck too long couple of times for my viewpoint, but they did not materialiaze into anything except maybe a few tense moments where it looked like he lost the puck.

One of the better canadian defenders. Yes. The best canadain defender. I'd argue against that. The most noticeable canadian player? I'd say aside from RNH and Mackinnon, then most definitely. He played well in that regard.

I don't know if it is your intention to make me dislike Murphy, but I like him. I hope he does well in this tournament along with every other Canadian player. However, this type of personal victory at the expense of the team losing such that he looks better by comparison is not what I want and shouldn't be what you want either.

 

[phillipsj89]

That second goal wasn't weak. Subban did not see anything and the shot went into the top corner. The third one was a bit weak but it was not really an easy save either.

Third goal is an EASY save, from that angle, if he is playing the shot properly, there is no chance it goes in. I have been saying this for a while now, Subban is not that good.

 

[Bjorn Le]

And you know this how? These are international competitions, show me proof if it's exact as you say it is. I've shown you proof and you denied it, so show me. After all, no one can take your assessments of Murphy seriously because of your bias.

Murphy had a good performance in terms of puck possession. He did not create many scoring chances on his own, but he ended up passing off to others that created good scoring chances and he held the puck a good deal and evaded defenders. He had a few giveaways and made a few bad decisions trying to skate his way through the opposing Finnish defence who were using their trap formation to clog up the neutral ice. He was guilty of holding the puck too long couple of times for my viewpoint, but they did not materialiaze into anything except maybe a few tense moments where it looked like he lost the puck.

One of the better canadian defenders. Yes. The best canadain defender. I'd argue against that. The most noticeable canadian player? I'd say aside from RNH and Mackinnon, then most definitely. He played well in that regard.

I don't know if it is your intention to make me dislike Murphy, but I like him. I hope he does well in this tournament along with every other Canadian player. However, this type of personal victory at the expense of the team losing such that he looks better by comparison is not what I want and shouldn't be what you want either.

Show you proof? You're the one making the claim they're "official lineup cards". The onus is on you to prove that, and I'm pretty sure that website isn't related to Hockey Canada. You didn't show me proof, you showed me a website that would have no way of knowing the "official lineup card" (Because they don't exist). I've shown you proof, you know, seeing that Murphy wasn't the 7th defensemen.

I guess for your logic, empirical evidence is trumped by a "source" with no connection to the topic in question.

 

[Atomos2]

Show you proof? You're the one making the claim they're "official lineup cards". The onus is on you to prove that, and I'm pretty sure that website isn't related to Hockey Canada. You didn't show me proof, you showed me a website that would have no way of knowing the "official lineup card" (Because they don't exist). I've shown you proof, you know, seeing that Murphy wasn't the 7th defensemen.

I guess for your logic, empirical evidence is trumped by a "source" with no connection to the topic in question.

I never said they were official lineup cards. But when one national website displays a lineup and one international website displays the exact same lineup, you have to admit there is an overlapping theme. Unless you can show me evidence of the contrary (like a website that shows an alternate lineup) aside from just looking with our eyes and guessing/assuming if Murphy is the 7th dman or not, why should I take your word on it?

By your theory, Ellis wasn't the 7th dman back in the day either and neither was Subban or Pietrangelo or Beaulieu. You can make good arguments for all of them but it doesn't change the fact that they are initially slotted as the 7th dman. You seem intelligent so I know you know what I am saying is reasonable and you are just choosing to ignore it. It's your choice, you can desperately believe Murphy is a mainstay on that third pairing with Reinhart, but you won't get me to change my opinion, especially when those same experts on TSN that you said were so complimentary of Murphy's game yesterday have him slotted as the 7th dman.

 

[Nash]

I never said they were official lineup cards. But when one national website displays a lineup and one international website displays the exact same lineup, you have to admit there is an overlapping theme. Unless you can show me evidence of the contrary (like a website that shows an alternate lineup) aside from just looking with our eyes and guessing/assuming if Murphy is the 7th dman or not, why should I take your word on it?

By your theory, Ellis wasn't the 7th dman back in the day either and neither was Subban or Pietrangelo or Beaulieu. You can make good arguments for all of them but it doesn't change the fact that they are initially slotted as the 7th dman. You seem intelligent so I know you know what I am saying is reasonable and you are just choosing to ignore it. It's your choice, you can desperately believe Murphy is a mainstay on that third pairing with Reinhart, but you won't get me to change my opinion, especially when those same experts on TSN that you said were so complimentary of Murphy's game yesterday have him slotted as the 7th dman.

I couldn't find game time stats, but it looked to me like Murphy was playing a regular shift out there. I wonder what his time on ice was compared to Wotherspoon. The game had so many penalties though, who knows what Spott's intentions were for pairings when the tournament starts. He was still juggling combos last game and will likely do so in the next tune up game as well. Why argue over who is the sixth or seventh D when it may not even be settled yet for the coach?

 

[Bjorn Le]

Ellis was at 17, he wasn't at age 18 or 19. Subban started as the 7th defensemen, he evolved into a top 6 role regardless if people called him the 7th defensemen. And Pietrangelo was one of Canada's top defenesemen, I don't know where people got the idea that he was 7th.

Who gives a **** what websites say, the definition of a 7th defensmen isn't a guy who plays (In all situations) more than the 6th defensemen. And that's what Murphy did, from the start of the game untill the end.

 

[Atomos2]

I couldn't find game time stats, but it looked to me like Murphy was playing a regular shift out there. I wonder what his time on ice was compared to Wotherspoon. The game had so many penalties though, who knows what Spott's intentions were for pairings when the tournament starts. He was still juggling combos last game and will likely do so in the next tune up game as well. Why argue over who is the sixth or seventh D when it may not even be settled yet for the coach?

http://bigdata.lahtis-enterprises.com/mem/?cha=873aa5b17f30ba8997850fbd2becbe3b

I don't know about regular shift in terms of consistency, but Spott did play him on a lot. I saw him out a lot when we were down a goal, which makes sense, since he was playing better than a lot of the d. I personally couldn't careless how the defence is slotted, as long as Canada wins, which didn't happen.

I find a lot of value in Murphy as the seventh dman, only in the sense that when we need a goal like yesterday, we can slot him anywhere into the line up and because of his individual puck possesion skills rushes where he can bring the puck up the ice, he has the ability to be with any defensive partner and still be just as effective even with Rielly, while still not disrupting the other lines. Even if he is not 7th dman like, I'm glad Spott is using Murphy efficiently in several different scenarios and partners. If he ends up finding good chemistry with someone, I'm all for it.

 

[Atomos2]

Ellis was at 17, he wasn't at age 18 or 19. Subban started as the 7th defensemen, he evolved into a top 6 role regardless if people called him the 7th defensemen. And Pietrangelo was one of Canada's top defenesemen, I don't know where people got the idea that he was 7th.

Who gives a **** what websites say, the definition of a 7th defensmen isn't a guy who plays (In all situations) more than the 6th defensemen. And that's what Murphy did, from the start of the game untill the end.

This is one of the few times I will agree. I feel Murphy can eventually evolve into a role like Subban did. I don't know why you take offense to Murphy being a 7th dman, I am just stating it in terms of pairings, not in terms that he is the worst dman of all of them. Murphy can usually play his game effectively with every dman in this roster because of his puck possession style, that's why I see him being the 7th dman.

 

[Nash]

http://bigdata.lahtis-enterprises.com/mem/?cha=873aa5b17f30ba8997850fbd2becbe3b

I don't know about regular shift in terms of consistency, but Spott did play him on a lot. I saw him out a lot when we were down a goal, which makes sense, since he was playing better than a lot of the d. I personally couldn't careless how the defence is slotted, as long as Canada wins, which didn't happen.

I find a lot of value in Murphy as the seventh dman, only in the sense that when we need a goal like yesterday, we can slot him anywhere into the line up and because of his individual puck possesion skills rushes where he can bring the puck up the ice, he has the ability to be with any defensive partner and still be just as effective even with Rielly, while still not disrupting the other lines. Even if he is not 7th dman like, I'm glad Spott is using Murphy efficiently in several different scenarios and partners. If he ends up finding good chemistry with someone, I'm all for it.

Thanks for finding that stat sheet. Interesting to see that Murphy only played 3 more shifts than Wotherspoon, but since his shifts were on average 14 seconds longer, he played six and a half more minutes. Also, Tyler played over half his shifts in the first period.

Impossible to call one or the other the seventh defenseman at this point though. The lines clearly aren't set.

I find huge value in Ryan when he plays a more dynamic game. He really can pass through seams well. I just really question his instincts, as he seems to always hold the puck too long and tries to beat one more guy than necessary. He could be one of the best players on the team and a huge asset if he plays as part of the team.

And to me, he is the weakest defenseman in our own zone. He is physically outmatched and coupled with his tendency to want to skate it out, he can be a liability. I really want him to play at his best and be a team player because he could be truly exceptional if he did.

 

[bruinsfan46]

Third goal is an EASY save, from that angle, if he is playing the shot properly, there is no chance it goes in. I have been saying this for a while now, Subban is not that good.

He plays on the worst offensive team in the OHL and they're 19-11-4 as he's got a .932 save percentage and 2.17 GAA. Some of you people are amazing, this is junior hockey, bad goals happen. When Subban has sucked the last couple weeks, Team Canada has really sucked in front of him. I'd be worried if the team was playing well and Subban was really looking like a weak link but the team is playing like ******* which can make it hard on a goalie.

 

[Stats01]

Jordan Eberle ‏@ebs_14
Hey @RNH_93 only one assist today? Stop playing like a girl. What are u some kind of girl or something?

LOL, i hope Ebs keeps this up all tourney.

LOL That's awesome, puts some friendly fire under his butt. RNH should dominate this tournament, no excuses.

 

[Ryker]

I heard that Maatta had a great game on the blueline for Finland.

- Yes he did. He was dominant at both ends. I was a proud Knights fan watching his skill level

He was insanely good, the best player on the ice in my eyes.

As for the rest, the first two Finnish lines looked good, and I guess Armia was the most prominent of the forwards. Salomaki was a bit disappointing, as I really liked his play last year. Well, it was just the first game, so we'll see how it goes as the tournament starts.

On the Canadian end, you could really tell RNH's skill, as some of the stickhandling and sneaky passes were just amazing. I think he was clearly a notch above the rest as far as offense is concerned and I really wonder how this line will look with Huberdeau on it instead of Rattie. Not that Rattie played bad, but still. The other lines looked really underwhelming, with only MacKinnon's one kind of hanging in there. On the defensive end, I thought Ouellet looked pretty bad, and the rest looked alright, but not much more than that.