Post-Game Talk: [EX5] Canucks lose to Kraken | Oct. 4th 7pm | 1-2 (Soucy)

RobertKron

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It's bizarre, he has zero glide...like he takes two strides and hasn't gone anywhere. Maybe he needs to look at his profile.

It's honestly almost hard to watch. The big thing that kind of immediately comes to mind, though, is just imagining him playing in a typical first round playoff game. Like, before attrition and the weight of significance has calmed the games back down and everyone is just absolutely screaming around the ice throwing bodies and causing chaos, and the play is going in five totally unorthodox directions at once. Imagine a guy with that skating trying to be an effective defensive centre in that environment.
 
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Seems to me that part of the strategy in this game was to 'torture test' Cole McWard.

He played big minutes with multiple partners.....most of the time with Brisebois, but also shifts with Wolanin and even Myers, when they tried shifting McWard to his unnatural left side.

There were a few hiccups, which you might expect....but generally I thought he sailed through the adversity with flying colors.

It'll be an interesting final decision.....but unless the Canucks make a deal, McWard starts the season in Vancouver.
Best post of the morning so far. And we haven’t even had breakfast yet!
 

PuckMunchkin

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It's honestly almost hard to watch. The big thing that kind of immediately comes to mind, though, is just imagining him playing in a typical first round playoff game. Like, before attrition and the weight of significance has calmed the games back down and everyone is just absolutely screaming around the ice throwing bodies and causing chaos, and the play is going in five totally unorthodox directions at once. Imagine a guy with that skating trying to be an effective defensive centre in that environment.
This sucks to hear... Not just your post but the general take that his skating is still garbage.

He looked much better in the first preseason game I watched but I believe what people are saying.
 

THRILLHOIAF

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Weird game featuring another very poor start from Vancouver. Beaten to every puck on a chip and chase, turnover, board battle, float pass, you name it...just so slow and late to react.

That being said, the Canucks also did a great job of denying the Kraken ANYTHING off of their strong forecheck. I almost fell out of my chair when they revealed that Seattle had managed just two shots ON DeSmith after 20 minutes to Vancouver's 4.

On the game:
-Hronek and Soucy looked rough to start (who didn't), but woke up during the 2nd and 3rd periods. Felt a lot of the rough start was attributed to poor forward coverage and REALLY unfortunate bounces though. The opening goal after Brisebois' penalty saw Hronek play that entire PK near perfectly, ate a slash, stayed out for the entire two minutes, didn't look worse for wear, outmuscled guys at the net front, cleared the zone...literally perfect. Then, his broken stick off the non-call deflects his clearing pass right to the slot for Poturalski to get the tap in while DeSmith is swimming. Then 17-7 found their rhythm and just took over in the offensive zone. It was actually surreal seeing a Canucks d-pairing without #43 on it controlling and dominating with d-to-d passes and legit shots from the perimeter.

-McWard was honesty about his game after the fact. Appears to know just how far away he is from being a credible NHLer. Which is both great and terrifying. If the kid knows he's punching above his weight, struggling, and still the team's THIRD BEST OPTION on RD, and the only real option for Hughes? THen hoooo boy what a disaster.


- Wolanin had his best game, arguably. But his passing has looked nowhere as good as it was last season.
- Brisebois is steady but essentially the smaller, lighter, left-handed version of Tyler Myers. He can give the team minutes, but there's nothing there, really. If he stayed out of the box, he would've been able to flex the ONE thing this coaching staff would keep him in the NHL for: penalty killing.
- Myers had that awkward fight. Otherwise, I can't say I saw him do a single thing besides PK and a few shot attempts.
- Raty was fine, until he wasn't. Seems to think the game very well, but is also prone to those rookie boneheaded mistakes like lazy puck touches that NHLers feast on.
- Sasson is in the same tier as Raty IMO, just less offensive upside. Could be a good 4th line energy/PK guy. Just needs to shore up on the same lazy puck touches that Raty also struggles with.
- Pius Suter best player for Vancouver last night. Love his game. quietly disruptive every shift. Take a shot every time Suter forces a turnover, denies an entry, or turns an opposing cycle into a rush chance...you'll be tanked by the end of the first period. Sleeper pick for "unsung hero" of the year.
- Höglander was quiet for 99% of the game until the very end when he outworked Ryker Evans along the boards to strip him of the puck and go cross-ice to Brock Boeser for a one-timer. I think he works hard, and Tocchet will love a guy like that.
- Kuzmenko tried a lot of spinny flashy stuff. But only had one real touch during the game where he drove possession for a scoring chance on his own. Skating looks MUCH improved though, and appears to understand the zone coverage much better. Wasn't floating around too often in the d-zone last night.
- Boeser is a solid two-way player. It'll never happen, but I wish the team tried him out on the PK. He's excellent along the walls, uses his frame to box guys out quite well, and is strong enough to take draws, if needed. They need some more utility out of him beyond power play and "can roll with EP40."
-DeSmith was DeSolid DeSpite some DeSwimming in DeCrease

Anyways, I recapped the game for CA, if anyone missed it.

 

THRILLHOIAF

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On Tolvanen: I was frustrated last night watching Studnicka do his usual "skate hard/accomplish nothing" routine that plays well in preseason for NHL coaches.

When Tolvanen was thrown on waivers last December, the Kraken were 10th in the NHL, the Canucks were 22nd. Nashville was 23rd. The big "issue" at that time was he carried a $1.45m cap hit. At that time, the Canucks had $2.7m in their LTIR pool available to them.

Sure enough 22 teams passed on Tolvanen, allowing the Kraken and their bountiful cap space to snag him. He'd go on to score 16 goals and 27 points, plus 9 more during the playoffs.

Two months after Tolvanen is snagged for free, becoming an instant contributor for Seattle, after it's already been plainly obvious that he's not working for the Canucks, they trade Riley Stillman for one of the Sabres whatever blue-chip prospects. Not four months after flipping Jason Dickinson and a 2nd for him. Now the trade wasn't FOR Stillman, it was for the $1.3m in cap relief. But what's the point of gaining that space if it's all in the service of trading assets out for win-now pieces that result in another bottom-10 finish in the league? Hindsight? whatever, sure. They were 7th last in the NHL in January, lol.

Anyways, instead of Stillman for another "young guy who works hard/4th line types that are on the open market every year for free" why not Stillman for Tolvanen? The extra 100k really too much to stomach?

Anyways, it's only worse when you consider the club's other "age gap" trades like, RD prospect and a goaltender for a guy who's only ever shown to be a 13th forward on a contender. Or Will Lockwood and a 7th rounder 3 years from now for a Russian prospect who has shown absolutely nothing in the NHL, ever and will likely play fewer NHL games than Lockwood over the coming decade.

All this is to say, it was frustrating to watch Tolvanen move with greater speed than any of the Canucks bona fide NHLers, play with more heart/grit than any of the Studnicka/Joshua/Aman types, show more two-way aptitude than any Canucks prospect, and score more than any of the guys vying for NHL jobs over two preseason games against the Canucks alone.

This:
Jason Dickinson and a 2024 2nd round pick
2023 5th-round pick
Will Lockwood and a 2026 7th round pick
Jonathan Myerneberg
Michael DiPietro

For this:
32 games of Riley Stillman
Jack Studnicka
Ethan Bear
11 NHL games and 16 AHL games of Lane Pederson
16 games of Vitali Kravtsov
Josh Bloom

There's one real NHL contributor on a contender here and he's out until December with a shoulder injury, lol. And calling him an NHL contributor on a contender is a stretch, considering Carolina had no place for him as their 7th D.

And yes, I'm aware that turning 3 picks, 3 guys who didn't have a future here, and 1 prospect into a bunch of guys and a prospect ultimately doesn't matter. But let me yell at the sky like an old man over this, hahaha
 

WetcoastOrca

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I didn’t watch the full game, but from what I watched Soucy and Hronek were really impressive. I haven’t seen that level of calm defensive play since the days of Chris Tanev.
I’ve gotten so used to most of our D chasing the play in the D zone and then using the glass and out play the last number of years that it was fun to watch a couple of D not named Hughes who can actually play the puck.
The forwards didn’t seem to get a whole lot done offensively and couldn’t really sustain much pressure when I was watching. We still need more size up front. Miller, PDG and Mikheyev will help but one of the smaller wingers really needs to be moved.
 
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Nucker101

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Might as well just dress the actual NHL lineup next game, none of the Abby/bubble guys have really stood out, depth is still an issue here. Sad contrast compared to the Kraken who have guys like Wright/Kartye/Evans all looking pretty good but the team doesn't have enough minutes available for them to all make the NHL club.
 

krutovsdonut

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watched the first two periods as first hockey watched this year. even when we pushed a little in the second it was a dull messy hockey game.

soucy is the only guy who stood out to me in an unexpected way. he looked a lot more mobile than i expected but perhaps it was the opposition.

hronek and wolanin looked good when they had the puck. i was not superstoked about hronek's defensive play. overall we looked very passive on defence. myers was barely there maybe trying not to get injured.

suter looked ok. studnicka was maybe gassed because i saw nothing. nobody on offence was separating themselves.

seattle systems play is really consistent but also really predictable. their neutral zone walk the line interference on pp entries is hilarious. they definitely get the most out of their fast skaters. ours get bogged down by line mates.
 

RobsonStreet

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Anyways, instead of Stillman for another "young guy who works hard/4th line types that are on the open market every year for free" why not Stillman for Tolvanen? The extra 100k really too much to stomach?
In a vacuum, sure, but why would Nashville have done this?
 

THRILLHOIAF

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In a vacuum, sure, but why would Nashville have done this?

save $100k...then trade for Josh Bloom :laugh:

lol fair point. But could entice them into getting something instead of losing a former 1st rounder for free, simply because he's not fitting in the system of a poorly coached team
 

Breakers

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I didnt see the calgary game

but since then shots in the first period of games
3 sog
4 sog
5 sog
4 sog

these guys are sleep walking into these pre-season games...... hopefully it doesnt continue in the regular season.
 

TomWillander1RD

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I missed the game, but judging from the comments, it seems like there wasn't much to miss.
It appears that Hronek and Soucy made a solid pairing. Can they consider testing out the Hughes-Cole pairing before the regular season begins?
 

Diamonddog01

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It's bizarre, he has zero glide...like he takes two strides and hasn't gone anywhere. Maybe he needs to look at his profile.

I mentioned this in a previous GDT but Tomlinson said he could hear his skating from where he was sitting in the arena as it was extremely loud. He suggested he needs to be lighter on his skates or "quieter" which is a bit vague to a non-skating expert such as myself.

Unlike some I don't see him becoming an NHL regular until he sorts this out. It's better than last season but it's still bad.
 

MS

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I mentioned this in a previous GDT but Tomlinson said he could hear his skating from where he was sitting in the arena as it was extremely loud. He suggested he needs to be lighter on his skates or "quieter" which is a bit vague to a non-skating expert such as myself.

Unlike some I don't see him becoming an NHL regular until he sorts this out. It's better than last season but it's still bad.

Eh, I don't know if skating is the same for everyone.

The loudest skater I think I've ever heard is Jay Bouwmeester - I remember watching him during his draft year when he was with Medicine hat, and I could have watched the game with my eyes closed and told you where Bouwmeester was on the ice based on the sound his strides made which were just so much longer and louder than anyone else on the ice.

To me Raty's feet get very splayed and he's not pushing off from an optimal position, but then I'm not a skating expert either.
 
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MS

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Is that the right way to frame it? I haven't seen anyone hype him up recently since he had that poor game against the Oilers, and the last time he WAS hyped, I thought you in on that as well, no?

I'm under the impression that most people appropriately 180'd on him after his play 180'd. At best there's just a bit of residual hope, but I wouldn't call it hype.

Edit: Nevermind, just looked back at the EX2 thread, and I guess you weren't as sold on him as others were at that point. Maybe you're referring to the initial hype being unwarranted as well?

People are talking about this guy like he's had a brilliant camp and has forced his way onto the team, and has looked great every night. And I ... don't see that at all.

Prospect camp : he was good but he was the 2nd best defender behind Hirose.

1st game : wasn't one of the goats in the 10-0 loss but didn't really distinguish himself either

2nd game : played pretty well next to Quinn Hughes. Wasn't crazy good, but pretty solid, moved the puck well..

3rd game : struggled with the pace and took a bunch of penalties.

4th game : again struggled with the pace and looked frazzled, was the worst of the team's 6 defenders.

Like, compared to the preseasons guys like Hutton and Stecher had to force their way onto the team, or something like Edler in 2007, this isn't even close. I don't think he's looked remotely NHL ready and I think the notion of him playing with Hughes is absolutely ridiculous.
 
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Vector

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People are talking about this guy like he's had a brilliant camp and has forced his way onto the team, and has looked great every night. And I ... don't see that at all.

Prospect camp : he was good but he was the 2nd best defender behind Hirose.

1st game : wasn't one of the goats in the 10-0 loss but didn't really distinguish himself either

2nd game : played pretty well next to Quinn Hughes. Wasn't crazy good, but pretty solid, moved the puck well..

3rd game : struggled with the pace and took a bunch of penalties.

4th game : again struggled with the pace and looked frazzled, was the worst of the team's 6 defenders.

Like, compared to the preseasons guys like Hutton and Stecher had to force their way onto the team, or something like Edler in 2007, this isn't even close. I don't think he's looked remotely NHL ready and I think the notion of him playing with Hughes is absolutely ridiculous.

Well not here. And not really in the media either. I think only the team has pushed that and the majority of other people have gone "he's looked better than expected but really should be in the AHL".
 
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MS

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Well not here. And not really in the media either. I think only the team has pushed that and the majority of other people have gone "he's looked better than expected but really should be in the AHL".

Yeah, I'm largely referring to the hype from the team and media. Even in the broadcast last night they kept talking about how good he was doing and I was like ... what?
 
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Vector

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Yeah, I'm largely referring to the hype from the team and media. Even in the broadcast last night they kept talking about how good he was doing and I was like ... what?

Watching him live and he was not impressive. Was playing to not make mistakes and had a couple of really bad giveaways and reads against soft competition.

I liked him more than most last season. Management has been patient with their prospects so this fast tracking they are doing is out of character. Not sure I get what the goal is anyway since at least one of McWard, Juulsen, Brisebois, and Wolanin have to get sent down/waived and they haven't played Juulsen much compared to the other three.
 
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MS

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Watching him live and he was not impressive. Was playing to not make mistakes and had a couple of really bad giveaways and reads against soft competition.

I liked him more than most last season. Management has been patient with their prospects so this fast tracking they are doing is out of character. Not sure I get what the goal is anyway since at least one of McWard, Juulsen, Brisebois, and Wolanin have to get sent down/waived and they haven't played Juulsen much compared to the other three.

Agreed - this McWard push is one of the weirdest things I've seen happen since they've been hired. One of the few legitimately weird things, really, other than the ownership-driven Boudreau mess.

As for McWard last night ... yeah. I thought he looked basically the D equivalent of Sasson/Bains in terms of performance, which is not good and not close to NHL level. A few moments of promise, but nothing that remotely merited any sort of consideration for playing next to Quinn Hughes.
 
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Vector

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Agreed - this McWard push is one of the weirdest things I've seen happen since they've been hired. One of the few legitimately weird things, really, other than the ownership-driven Boudreau mess.

As for McWard last night ... yeah. I thought he looked basically the D equivalent of Sasson/Bains in terms of performance, which is not good and not close to NHL level. A few moments of promise, but nothing that remotely merited any sort of consideration for playing next to Quinn Hughes.

They did fast track Aman last year but he already had two full seasons in the SEL and was playing pretty low leverage minutes. I'm not convinced they are going to do something but going into next season with McWard as Hughes partner would be such a strange decision.
 

PuckMunchkin

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They did fast track Aman last year but he already had two full seasons in the SEL and was playing pretty low leverage minutes. I'm not convinced they are going to do something but going into next season with McWard as Hughes partner would be such a strange decision.
I've honestly not considered they would actually start the year with McWard on the NHL roster.
 

Vector

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I've honestly not considered they would actually start the year with McWard on the NHL roster.

They've sent pretty much everyone else down. It's just between Wolanin/Brisebois/McWard/Juulsen for 1-3 spots depending on Mikheyev's status. Still lots of time to add someone and they completed the Dickinson-Stillman trade 5 days before the season opener.

Coincidentally, the schedule starts off exactly the same. Last pre-season game is on a Friday and the first game of the season, also vs the Oilers, is the following Wednesday. Then a two day break before the next game.
 
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MS

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They did fast track Aman last year but he already had two full seasons in the SEL and was playing pretty low leverage minutes. I'm not convinced they are going to do something but going into next season with McWard as Hughes partner would be such a strange decision.

4th liner obviously is just a little a bit different from a top-4 D, though.

I'm sure they MUST be making a move and McWard will be getting sent down, but it doesn't make it any less weird.
 
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