Post-Game Talk: [EX4] Canucks defeat Oilers | 5-2 (Hughes(2), Kuzmenko, Pettersson, & Di Giuseppe)

[Petey But Really Jim]

Wasn't able to catch all the game, How was McWard?

@M2Beezy says he's ready.

 

[VanJack]

Is it possible that we're seeing Quinn Hughes take his game to yet another level? As brilliant has he has been for the Canucks since the day he arrived, I' m seeing signs that his game is ratcheting up.

Obviously he's shooting more, and there seems to be a lot more mustard on it. And his transition speed through the neutral zone looks to have taken a leap. He's not being caught from behind any more, and his puck battles look much improved.

Seems inevitable that he'll be the first Canuck to ever win a Norris. And it might happen as early as this season.

 

[MarkMM]

Is it possible that we're seeing Quinn Hughes take his game to yet another level? As brilliant has he has been for the Canucks since the day he arrived, I' m seeing signs that his game is ratcheting up.

Obviously he's shooting more, and there seems to be a lot more mustard on it. And his transition speed through the neutral zone looks to have taken a leap. He's not being caught from behind any more, and his puck battles look much improved.

Seems inevitable that he'll be the first Canuck to ever win a Norris. And it might happen as early as this season.

It's too soon to tell but sometimes something like being elevated to captain is both a confidence boost and a maturity boost where someone grows into the role. Psychologists refer to it as the Pygmalion Effect, people often live up or down to how you treat them, if we're treating Hughes as the heart and soul of the team it might have the effect of bringing that mentality out of him, and if he had the natural latent talent (even more than we'd seen previously) then that could be coming out.

 

[arttk]

I had the same problem as a goalie, but it never really bothered me much. There were other things that were far bigger impediments to me going anywhere super serious as a goaltender. Like my lack of obsessive drive and competitiveness to care a lot about being a poor puckhandling goalie. The struggle is real though. So awkward. I remember at some point trying, or being coached to try some weird stuff with just flipping my bottom (left) glove hand the other way around and making it more of a weird press/sweep sort of idk motion. lol. Don't think that was the answer either.

It's actually kind of strange how prevalent it seems to be. How many people who end up being goaltenders, also happen to be the weird "right handed - right shot" skaters.

I think right handed people catch with the left hand like baseball.

 

[Vector]

Wasn't able to catch all the game, How was McWard?

Not good, Bob!

Looked overmatched and behind the play. Reacting instead of anticipating. Took three penalties and although they were a bit weak he put himself in a position to get called.

 

[VanJack]

Not to be too harsh on McWard, but a couple of those calls were cheap...cheap...cheap.

And at one time the penalties were four minors for the Canucks and zero for the Oilers. It'll be interesting to see though if McWard gets another game before the start of the regular season.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

So, I guess we'll be trolling the waivers pretty hard.

 

[alternate]

I know pairings started
Cole-Hronek
Soucy-Myers

But did they finish that way? Seemed to me they switched partners at some point in the 2nd.

 

[Shareefruck]

But why?

The time for screwing around with pairings that aren't serious was back when they sent that ECHL roster out to get murdered. They don't really have time to mess around with Hughes anymore. Find him a partner. Now.


Brisebois has become enough of a player to handle depth #7 sort of minutes. But plugging him on his off side on the top pairing is a complete waste of time. He's not that guy.

Same with randomly forcing two other Lefty's in Soucey - Hirose together. Even if that worked...where does that leave the rest of the defence pairings? Myers plays with Hughes? No thanks. Myers in the press box? lmao that's ridiculous and definitely not happening.

So what is the endgame to tinkering with throwing pairings at the wall like it's a month before camp even opens?


Despite Hughes rising above tonight against 1/4 of an Oilers team at best...this team absolutely cannot afford to be fumbling and futzing around trying to figure out who is going to play with our best defenceman when the season opens very soon.

I'm not suggesting they should actually do it, I'm just curious what it would look like. Honestly, for context, most of what I comment on in these games has nothing to do with competing windows, timing, pragmatism, and things like that. Strengths and weaknesses complementing each other just interest me on a theoretical level. When thinking of a partner for Hughes, Brisebois' overly safe smoothness comes to mind, and he hasn't done too poorly this preseason.

 

[Shareefruck]

Yeah. I think i just really don't agree with almost the majority of how you're viewing these players in question, and their chemistry (or potential chemistry). I also again defer to...the fact that Garland and Suter have in fact looked, alright together to me these past two games. Also had Hoglander playing far more of simplified "around the net" game. Which was a major positive of tonight.


Garland's strength is in that he's actually able to carry the puck and create plays effectively from the wing. It's largely focused around getting to the net, but he's the guy who is actually able to gain the zone, curl up and find a seam to make that happen. He's good at the thing that Hoglander gets himself into deep deep trouble thinking he can be. Like many good offensive players, he's got a little bit of each compass direction in the way he can attack. But to me, Garland's ability to generate offense from the wing is largely about his ability to move the puck east-west from the boards (be that the wing or down low) to the net area. He's very direct about it, but nonetheless...he's far from a North-South head down simple game. He's a desperately underrated passer. I think that makes him plenty well-suited to mesh with Suter...


Where Suter...i don't think he's got any particular offensive style at all. He just goes with the flow. Like you said, he's got a decent feel for finding soft areas and making little "facilitator" passes. That's what he's good at, and that's pretty much all he's good at. But that's what makes him adaptable and flexible to plug in and play higher up the lineup than you'd like if you have a deep healthy roster. He's able to read somewhat reasonably off of better, more creative players and just...facilitate. He's a "conduit" player. Just exists in between one linemate and the other. Which is why it could potentially fit with...


Hoglander...is basically only an effective player when he barely has the puck on his stick at all. Just buzzing around, use his darting quickness and shiftiness to clean up around the general net area. When he fancies himself a Garland...yes, he can cross the blueline with the puck...but i can't count high enough to tally the number of instances where he's done so only to buttonhook himself into a box, turn the puck over...and not actually effectively gain the zone entry. Especially if you add in all the times he gets a pass inside the zone from a linemate, and does the exact same thing to just completely kill the offensive flow and create a turnover in a very dangerous part of the ice.



I just think it makes sense to explore something like that, which could make three misfits simultaneously "better" together. Where Bluegers...that simple North-South game, i think we've seen already...can basically exist at a similar level, even if his linemates are not particularly skilled playmakers or offensive players in general. It becomes more a mission of getting the puck to the other end and keeping it there. Scoring optional...when they essentially just mash it into the net by grinding away. He's more...that kind of player to me.

Garland might be an intriguing fit with him because of the way he can actually take a second to create more of a play...while still both liking to muck it up around the net. But i don't know that you're actually going to get much of any more productivity out of either of them for it. Marginal relative gains. Whereas Suter without someone like Garland...well...he's not going to do anything. Massive net deficit in play driving and the resultant production.

So on the average...take the option that significantly boosts the weaker Center (Suter) results, with marginal consequence to the stronger Center (Bluegers) results. Seems like easy math to me.

Yeah, I think Garland being a "desperately underrated passer" is where we differ. I think he's fine at distributing along the boards, sustaining pressure, and then taking it to the net, but I don't consider him a particularly strong chance-creating playmaker beyond that (when there's an obvious pass to make, he can make it, though). I see him more as a better Mason Raymond in that regard, and I guess I think Suter needs something a bit more creative than that to be effective (and I didn't find him to be that effective in these two games, personally, so I'm not seeing the same potential you are).

I also don't think I agree that Hoglander is best when he doesn't touch the puck at all, nor do I really think of him as an on-his-stick-off-his-stick player (the way I did someone like early Hansen, for example). I think he's at his best when he's involved with worming the puck along the boards, making chip plays, and taking it to the net from there, despite struggling to actually do that the past few seasons for whatever reason. His surprisingly strong board play and elusiveness in tight areas was the main reason he was able to be effective that first year, IMO (and it hasn't been bad these last few games either). If he's not able to bring that back in some capacity, it's going to be rough for him, in my view. Him finding Suter in soft areas is also very unlikely.

So with that in mind, I'd kind of expect Suter to be stuck in no-man's land a lot of the time while playing with these two, and often lost/confused by the one-man show that Garland tends to put on (same way Boeser usually is when playing with Garland, another complete mismatch), and Blueger more of a complementary board-support, net-crashing garbageman for the chances the other two could conceivably create.

But we can agree to disagree on that, and admittedly, I made similar assessments about Mikheyev's complements (thinking he'd be another Garland/Raymond) and ended up being completely wrong about that.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Is it possible that we're seeing Quinn Hughes take his game to yet another level? As brilliant has he has been for the Canucks since the day he arrived, I' m seeing signs that his game is ratcheting up.

Obviously he's shooting more, and there seems to be a lot more mustard on it. And his transition speed through the neutral zone looks to have taken a leap. He's not being caught from behind any more, and his puck battles look much improved.

Seems inevitable that he'll be the first Canuck to ever win a Norris. And it might happen as early as this season.

this is where i think we’re going to see hiring sergei gonchar pay off

 

[BluesyShoes]

Is it possible that we're seeing Quinn Hughes take his game to yet another level? As brilliant has he has been for the Canucks since the day he arrived, I' m seeing signs that his game is ratcheting up.

Obviously he's shooting more, and there seems to be a lot more mustard on it. And his transition speed through the neutral zone looks to have taken a leap. He's not being caught from behind any more, and his puck battles look much improved.

Seems inevitable that he'll be the first Canuck to ever win a Norris. And it might happen as early as this season.

I think the biggest thing is he spent the last couple years focusing on not giving anything up defensively, which he was successful at last year. He was generating offense from the blue line while being the last man back, or at least in a position to break up plays on the back check if the other team got an unexpected transition.

Last night he was taking more chances, skating the puck into more risky areas where a quick transition would lead to an odd man break against. He is picking his spots well though, and overall I think his reads and puck protection are good enough to start pushing the offense in ways like this. Last couple years he wasn't skating to areas where he was a shooting threat to score, i.e. the area just above the hashmarks and at the left fringe of the slot; last year he was more letting his shot off looking for deflections and rebounds from way back at the top of the blueline. If teams start respecting his shot, its going to open up space and options.

The powerplay was also interesting last night. Miller was working the same area Hughes was working even strength. Hughes would pull the high defender away from Miller either by passing it to Petey or dangling near the high-right slot, and then giving it to Miller who had a headstart skating into the left high slot which was now open. The other Canucks reacted to this and gave him a whole lot of timed options. Depending on how the defense was playing it, there was at least one odd man chance available each time, or he had a shot available and almost always an outlet to Hughes. It was really interesting and was all about getting in behind the highest defender in the diamond and into the high slot to find an open man down low.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Isnt that supposed to be Joshua's job?

Joshua isn’t an enforcer.

 

[biturbo19]

I think right handed people catch with the left hand like baseball.

Yes. Typically. As i did. It's reasonable and logical. Your "catching hand" is your "catching hand". It's just weird how many of them who are goalies also seem to naturally shoot Right as a skater. Where it's more typical for for right handed people to shoot left.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Joshua isn’t an enforcer.

but he can play hockey..and he will drop the gloves and hit.

There must be some reason that Nick Ritchie's NHL career is practically over..?

 

[arttk]

Yes. Typically. As i did. It's reasonable and logical. Your "catching hand" is your "catching hand". It's just weird how many of them who are goalies also seem to naturally shoot Right as a skater. Where it's more typical for for right handed people to shoot left.

Yeah that’s weird, I never quite understand why right handed folks shoot left. I shoot right, maybe because I suck and should shoot left instead

 

[Canuckle1970]

Was attending a birthday celebration last night with the game on in the background. Watched the game this morning.
Stinko 1st period, and then the new captain led the way. They were skating, passing and shooting. Two more to go.

I hope Mikheyev will be okay to start those first 2 games against the Oil, and hopefully he still has the speed needed to try to cope with McDavid. All you can do is try.

 

[Jay26]

You think Hronek can be Hughes' partner, if he can keep up? Or do we need him more on 3/4 second D pair?

I think that would be a disaster for the team (not for the pairing) in there long run. They don't have the depth for that.

 

[Yultron]

Should we be really concerned about Hoglander ??

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Yeah that’s weird, I never quite understand why right handed folks shoot left. I shoot right, maybe because I suck and should shoot left instead

i shoot right and when i played goal i caught with my left hand.

but i wonder if for a lot of right shooters it isn’t so much that holding the stick with your right hand and catching with your left is natural per se, so much as that goal equipment is pretty scarce and you learn with what’s around, which is almost always RH blocker, LH catcher.

 

[arttk]

i shoot right and when i played goal i caught with my left hand.

but i wonder if for a lot of right shooters it isn’t so much that holding the stick with your right hand and catching with your left is natural per se, so much as that goal equipment is pretty scarce and you learn with what’s around, which is almost always RH blocker, LH catcher.

I don’t know, I catch much better with my left than right.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I don’t know, I catch much better with my left than right.

i do too, but is that just a random baseball thing where because we have to throw with our right hands we learn to catch with our left?

 

[David Bruce Banner]

but he can play hockey..and he will drop the gloves and hit.

There must be some reason that Nick Ritchie's NHL career is practically over..?

Yeah, because we didn't pick him over Virtanen.

 

[biturbo19]

i shoot right and when i played goal i caught with my left hand.

but i wonder if for a lot of right shooters it isn’t so much that holding the stick with your right hand and catching with your left is natural per se, so much as that goal equipment is pretty scarce and you learn with what’s around, which is almost always RH blocker, LH catcher.

idk...i think that's pretty weird. Unless you're actually Left-handed and shoot right. Which would then fairly conventionally "catch right" in goal.

I'm sure there are a few people who just catch left out of convenience. But i doubt the number is very high. Lefty throwers - Right Catchers are pretty rare. Even more rare for actually right-handed people. For me, it was very much about being far more natural to catch with my dominant catching hand. It also gives you better control over your stick with your dominant right hand.

Being right handed and catching right is...way outside the norm.

 

[tyhee]

... The Soucy thing with Hughes is just weird at this point. Like...there must've been something behind the scenes with Foote or something, where they just weren't comfortable with it for some reason? It's bizarre how reluctant them seem to even just try it. In preseason...when it doesn't even matter. ...

I didn't see the training camp nor the scrimmage so this is only my recollection from reading reports, but I thought they did try Hughes-Soucy right at the start of training camp and in the scrimmage, with the result that they did fine defensively (except for turnovers) but that in the scrimmage Soucy had several instances of trouble receiving and giving the puck on his offside and that was the last we've seen of Hughes-Soucy.

It seems a little surprising in that iirc he'd played a fair bit on the right side with the Kraken in 2021-2022 with reasonable results.