Post-Game Talk: [EX2] Canucks lose to Oilers - 1-2 (OT) (Hughes)
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sting101
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- Feb 8, 2012
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I was just bustin your balls about the giraffe stuff OT.
On a serious note Myers had 6 unforced turnovers was clumsy and too slow to reach pucks or get set up for what was gonna happen next. He's a whipping boy in the GDTs because he's just so damn erratic and awkward. It seems with him when he's off he's like a locomotive driving off a cliff off.
I've done a lot of defending him over the years but since about the mid point of last year he hasnt played like a decent NHLer often enough to get the benefit of much defending. It's hopefully just rust as we have seen 2 yrs ago a player who could actually be useful...we'll see
I wouldn't glean too much from the GDT smack talk.....i learned a long time ago that it's juts reactionary banter nothing to get too attached to
Nucker101
Foundational Poster
- Apr 2, 2013
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Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
I really really hope Brisebois makes the team as a regular.
What a story that would be, a 2015 third round pick after 8 years, became a full time nhler with the team that drafted him
oceanchild
Registered User
I mean, given they let Benning run the show as long as they did, and we have reason to believe that the owner meddles, and the team has been a sh*t show for a decade. I am not sure that this isn’t a Mickey Mouse franchise.
I sure wish I could say something different, but hey, maybe we should use some more futures to make it all better!
Regarding Guillaume Brisebois:
“I love him. Footey (assistant coach Adam Foote) and Gonch (defensive development coach Sergei Gonchar) love his hockey IQ,” said Tocchet.
^that quote is from a couple of days ago
MarkusNaslund19
Registered User
- Dec 28, 2005
- 5,476
- 7,851
Alright, my first watched game of the year.
Petey: Not super sharp (but who cares) but he's a hockey super computer and I just love watching his reads, especially when he has to adjust them on the fly.
Kuzmenko: Looks leaner and maybe a bit quicker. Man is he a menace when he starts spinning off of guys. He also has that star quality of always wanting the puck and always knowing what to do with it immediately when he gets it.
Hoglander: Some good stuff, but he sort of looks like a good drop-in EASHL player where he doesn't really know how to follow the rhythm of the game, but does a lot of small good stuff, and then can't do fundamentals. He will live and die with whether he can be relied on to win the puck/get the puck out when D throw it up his side in the D zone. Today there were still some mistakes.
Bains: This was my first time watching him and I saw what @MS has been talking about. He's got some skill but above all he has really high level hockey sense. Every time he gets the puck, it goes somewhere better than he got it. Whether that's finding a guy in traffic, or just tying up the D he's competing with so that a teammate can come get the puck. Works hard and has a great read for the game.
Raty: Still some developing to do in Abby but looks promising. Can see the flaw in his stride is that after his push he doesn't return his feet directly under him so his stride is really inefficient. I had the same problem when young but taking power skating with Karen Magnussen really corrected that for me. I'm sure it's not that easy (and I was like 13 at the time) but it should be somewhat fixable (and no I'm not saying I skate better than him obviously).
Garland: Looked good, assertive, creative. I still think he's a bit redundant with Kuzmenko and Boeser and to me (and I disagree with many here) i get rid of Garland easily out of those three. His first touches are elite, he knows where the puck should be before he touches it. He hasn't quite found chemistry here, but I can see him getting moved and thriving elsewhere. Or else he's a nice luxury here.
Aman: There's good hockey sense here, a big body, defensively responsible, and a pretty good playmaker. He's still quite young and there's still more here. It will be interesting to see if someone comes out of nowhere and wins a spot we may lose a guy or two on waivers.
Blueger: Stout, occupies his space and wins a lot of battles. This is the type of center we haven't had in a good while. Was giving some of the skill players on Edmonton fits because he has such a good stick and solid body positioning.
Studnicka: Number change surprised me. He's fast and tenacious and has good hockey sense. I'm not sure if it's enough to make this team as a regular or not, but he certainly looks like an NHLer. Can see he's taking this seriously as maybe his best shot at a full-time NHL career.
Sasson: Doesn't look out of place until he has the puck in the offensive zone with a bit of time. Then he looked a bit like a dog with an iPhone. I'm not sure that says anything though, he just looks a bit overwhelmed by the moment, like he can't believe he has the puck while RNH or McDavid are on the ice. Will be curious to see his development. Could be a 4th line center down the road, certainly looks like good organizational depth and a fill-in at worst. Let's let him develop a bit. Did see him in amiable chats with several teammates on the bench so may be a good teammate.
Dries: Not a full timer unless he's on a bad team where he gets soft second line minutes, or 2nd pp time on a team that has size and grit but no creativity. Doesn't belong on this team as a regular.
Joshua: They mentioned that when Tocchet referenced 'not getting into everything' about his poor play they meant he showed up to camp in poor shape. I find that hard to forgive knowing the circumstances, but on topic he was a disruptor, threw a couple of good hits, and was in Nurse's kitchen in a way that few Canucks can manage.
-
Hughes: Shooting more. Probably a good thing and will open up passing lanes for him as he becomes less predictable (He's an absolute stud obviously). Sort of cruise control in this one, but that's still a superstar level.
McWard: I was dubious on what I saw in his few games last year, but some guys really thrive on getting a few late games and then knowing what they are training for over the summer. Made poised passes in the offensive zone and used the net to evade a forechecker absolutely masterfully in the 3rd. We have something here and it's possible he even breaks camp with the team and climbs our depth chart this year. Even if not, good signs from him.
Myers: Agree with what @orcatown is saying about the tediousness of the 'memes' around him being chatic and a giraffe. He's clearly not a 6 million dollar D, but as a 3rd pairing guy he is a luxury. He had a couple of unsure moments in this game, but was pretty good overall. Many on these boards absolutely refuse to acknowledge when he does well or give him the benefit of the doubt when something goes wrong with him on the ice.
Soucy: Can see how his long stick really shuts guys down on the rush. Stymied McDavid on a particular rush. Similar to Blueger in that he has a stoutness that teams need. What I mean by that is that they own their lanes/portions of the ice, win battles, make good reads, and don't give up ice to the opposition, forcing them to battle for every inch. We have been woefully short on that in the last decade so this is helpful.
Brisebois: Looking more sure of himself for the most part other than the error in the 3rd. I still think he's probably a good 7 or 8 at best but he's starting to look like something other than a liability out there (earlier in his career he couldn't hang at this level). And lest people think I'm being dismissive, D get hurt frequently so often a good 7 or 8 is playing anywhere from 35-55 games in a year with the big team.
Wolanin: Looked okay, less dynamic than last year but fairly steady. I'm not as high on him as some are here. I think he's an NHL D who has been unlucky with injuries and can find a puck moving role like a Mike Reilly or something somewhere, but he's fairly redundant here and will either be usurped by Hughes, Cole, and (if we play him on the left) Soucy, or else is a placeholder until Hirose is ready.
DeSmith: At some point we will look back and laugh at the level of goaltending we got for 80% of last year. DeSmith makes me feel like that laughter will become mirthful at some point instead of nervous. Felt good to have a non-Demko goalie out there who looked steady and reliable.
Petey: Not super sharp (but who cares) but he's a hockey super computer and I just love watching his reads, especially when he has to adjust them on the fly.
Kuzmenko: Looks leaner and maybe a bit quicker. Man is he a menace when he starts spinning off of guys. He also has that star quality of always wanting the puck and always knowing what to do with it immediately when he gets it.
Hoglander: Some good stuff, but he sort of looks like a good drop-in EASHL player where he doesn't really know how to follow the rhythm of the game, but does a lot of small good stuff, and then can't do fundamentals. He will live and die with whether he can be relied on to win the puck/get the puck out when D throw it up his side in the D zone. Today there were still some mistakes.
Bains: This was my first time watching him and I saw what @MS has been talking about. He's got some skill but above all he has really high level hockey sense. Every time he gets the puck, it goes somewhere better than he got it. Whether that's finding a guy in traffic, or just tying up the D he's competing with so that a teammate can come get the puck. Works hard and has a great read for the game.
Raty: Still some developing to do in Abby but looks promising. Can see the flaw in his stride is that after his push he doesn't return his feet directly under him so his stride is really inefficient. I had the same problem when young but taking power skating with Karen Magnussen really corrected that for me. I'm sure it's not that easy (and I was like 13 at the time) but it should be somewhat fixable (and no I'm not saying I skate better than him obviously).
Garland: Looked good, assertive, creative. I still think he's a bit redundant with Kuzmenko and Boeser and to me (and I disagree with many here) i get rid of Garland easily out of those three. His first touches are elite, he knows where the puck should be before he touches it. He hasn't quite found chemistry here, but I can see him getting moved and thriving elsewhere. Or else he's a nice luxury here.
Aman: There's good hockey sense here, a big body, defensively responsible, and a pretty good playmaker. He's still quite young and there's still more here. It will be interesting to see if someone comes out of nowhere and wins a spot we may lose a guy or two on waivers.
Blueger: Stout, occupies his space and wins a lot of battles. This is the type of center we haven't had in a good while. Was giving some of the skill players on Edmonton fits because he has such a good stick and solid body positioning.
Studnicka: Number change surprised me. He's fast and tenacious and has good hockey sense. I'm not sure if it's enough to make this team as a regular or not, but he certainly looks like an NHLer. Can see he's taking this seriously as maybe his best shot at a full-time NHL career.
Sasson: Doesn't look out of place until he has the puck in the offensive zone with a bit of time. Then he looked a bit like a dog with an iPhone. I'm not sure that says anything though, he just looks a bit overwhelmed by the moment, like he can't believe he has the puck while RNH or McDavid are on the ice. Will be curious to see his development. Could be a 4th line center down the road, certainly looks like good organizational depth and a fill-in at worst. Let's let him develop a bit. Did see him in amiable chats with several teammates on the bench so may be a good teammate.
Dries: Not a full timer unless he's on a bad team where he gets soft second line minutes, or 2nd pp time on a team that has size and grit but no creativity. Doesn't belong on this team as a regular.
Joshua: They mentioned that when Tocchet referenced 'not getting into everything' about his poor play they meant he showed up to camp in poor shape. I find that hard to forgive knowing the circumstances, but on topic he was a disruptor, threw a couple of good hits, and was in Nurse's kitchen in a way that few Canucks can manage.
-
Hughes: Shooting more. Probably a good thing and will open up passing lanes for him as he becomes less predictable (He's an absolute stud obviously). Sort of cruise control in this one, but that's still a superstar level.
McWard: I was dubious on what I saw in his few games last year, but some guys really thrive on getting a few late games and then knowing what they are training for over the summer. Made poised passes in the offensive zone and used the net to evade a forechecker absolutely masterfully in the 3rd. We have something here and it's possible he even breaks camp with the team and climbs our depth chart this year. Even if not, good signs from him.
Myers: Agree with what @orcatown is saying about the tediousness of the 'memes' around him being chatic and a giraffe. He's clearly not a 6 million dollar D, but as a 3rd pairing guy he is a luxury. He had a couple of unsure moments in this game, but was pretty good overall. Many on these boards absolutely refuse to acknowledge when he does well or give him the benefit of the doubt when something goes wrong with him on the ice.
Soucy: Can see how his long stick really shuts guys down on the rush. Stymied McDavid on a particular rush. Similar to Blueger in that he has a stoutness that teams need. What I mean by that is that they own their lanes/portions of the ice, win battles, make good reads, and don't give up ice to the opposition, forcing them to battle for every inch. We have been woefully short on that in the last decade so this is helpful.
Brisebois: Looking more sure of himself for the most part other than the error in the 3rd. I still think he's probably a good 7 or 8 at best but he's starting to look like something other than a liability out there (earlier in his career he couldn't hang at this level). And lest people think I'm being dismissive, D get hurt frequently so often a good 7 or 8 is playing anywhere from 35-55 games in a year with the big team.
Wolanin: Looked okay, less dynamic than last year but fairly steady. I'm not as high on him as some are here. I think he's an NHL D who has been unlucky with injuries and can find a puck moving role like a Mike Reilly or something somewhere, but he's fairly redundant here and will either be usurped by Hughes, Cole, and (if we play him on the left) Soucy, or else is a placeholder until Hirose is ready.
DeSmith: At some point we will look back and laugh at the level of goaltending we got for 80% of last year. DeSmith makes me feel like that laughter will become mirthful at some point instead of nervous. Felt good to have a non-Demko goalie out there who looked steady and reliable.
David Bruce Banner
Nude Cabdriver Ban
Maybe if McWard can hack being Hughes' partner, Soucey can team up with Myers to stabilize his game?
Seems like a waste to have Soucey on the 3rd pairing, though.
Seems like a waste to have Soucey on the 3rd pairing, though.
The fact that we're even 'talking' about Soucy and Myers on a 'third' pairing would be unheard of a season or so ago. And we're not even factoring Hronek into the mix.
The blueline's not there yet. But is leaps and bounds ahead of where it's been.
It’s pretty crazy to think that 5 of our top 7 D will all be new guys, given that Hronek hardly played last year. Not a bad off season for Allvin. The D needs some work but that’s a great start.
Soups On
Registered User
- Apr 27, 2012
- 3,793
- 1,994
Right, my bad.
Regardless, not a large loss considering the circumstances. DeSmith is solid and Pearson wasn't gonna play here anymore.
Diversification
Registered User
- Jun 21, 2019
- 3,009
- 3,737
I really wish that were the case. But going off last night's performance - and it's all we have to go by so far - he didn't perform as a 3rd pairing defenseman last night. Certainly not one that can anchor a 3rd pairing. Instead, for every good play he made (there were perhaps 4 or 5), he made nearly twice as many bad ones. These include flubbed passes to wingers and his own partner that put them in poor positions to push the puck up ice or out of his zone, bizarre coverage choices that were ineffective and was fortunate that they were covered up by DeSmith's strong performance in net, and just awful pinches in the ozone that lead to everyone scrambling to head off an odd man rushes going the other way.
If this is the way he's going to play, I want him off the damn team. He's not an asset, he's not a luxury. He's a liability plain and simple and will (not may) cost us critical points in the standings that will almost certainly tip the balance between a playoff spot and again coming up short.
It seemed like last night we played the most coherent, structured, and technical hockey I’ve seen us play in pretty much 2 years. And that’s with a veteran sprinkled line up.
Alvin’s free agent acquisitions (Kuzmenko, McWard, Soucy, Hirose, Cole, Wolanin/Bains/Nielsen) have been A+ additions. It’s like a breath of fresh air in an early morning autumn day.
Alvin’s free agent acquisitions (Kuzmenko, McWard, Soucy, Hirose, Cole, Wolanin/Bains/Nielsen) have been A+ additions. It’s like a breath of fresh air in an early morning autumn day.
Yeah. I hate it, because he was such a fun exciting little player when he first arrived. But really have to echo these sentiments and concerns about Hoglander. It'd be an overreaction to a single preseason game...but at the end of the day, the problem isn't new. Same old story. Looks like the same misfit player who can't find a real spot in our lineup.
I don't really think plugging him into that "top line" role is the best thing for him any more than sticking him on a "bottom line" grinder role. But that's sort of the problem that has emerged with him and persisted for quite a while now.
He just doesn't seem to mesh with anyone, or fit any particular role on the team. He has a hard time reading off linemates and seems inclined to try to do "too much" himself. He overhandles the puck when he should really be making quick, simple one-touch plays to just keep possession alive, work the cycle, get the puck down low, get to the net or do a better job of rotating to a position that supports the cycle.
He's just not a skilled enough, creative enough, or strong and fast enough player to make the sort of moves and plays he seems to want to make. That results in too many plays that just effectively die on his stick and kill any momentum his linemates might be making. He also tends to float himself too often to positions that don't give his linemates a good option to cycle the puck. Kind of strands them on an island attempting to work a 2-man cycle that gets outmanned and again...the possession tends to die.
We saw as a rookie that with the right sort of linemate (Bo Horvat) and the right sort of simple straightforward game, he has the potential to be a really useful, pesky little middle-6er who pots 20G for you. But he seems to have regressed from that player, and doesn't really have a clear fit on this roster.
I think it's time to seriously start examining what to do with Hoglander. I guess in the short-term, you just plug him in to a couple other spots and see if some random chemistry pops up. Maybe he randomly works with Pius Suter or something?But ultimately, i think you've gotta start looking at whether you can even get anything useful for him in trade. I'm not sure you can, but it's pretty clearly coming time to find out.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly where I'm at with Hoglander. He just doesn't fit anywhere.
He isn't a top-6 forward. Just not good enough offensively and doesn't have a high enough IQ to work with other skill players. And he also isn't the sort of 'less skilled' top-6 guy who can be plugged in there for his defensive conscience or puck retrieval skills.
His skill level is best suited for a 3rd line (I think the C he would compliment best offensively is probably Blueger), but he can't be used there really because he's too poor defensively and his puck management skills suck.
That basically leaves '4th line energy guy' as his only real role, and Tocchet seems to want two reliable checking lines so even that's a bit of a stretch. Plus he's incredibly inconsistent in bringing his skating and energy - completely disappeared for long stretches even in the AHL last year.
Plus he offers very limited PP utility and zero PK utility.
I'm ready to move on, but I don't think there's a lot of trade value there. Maybe a 5th round pick or another struggling prospect.
I feel like it's ripe for a positional swap with a team that has a struggling D prospect who has become waiver eligible recently
Mr. Canucklehead
Kitimat Canuck
Only saw parts of this game - but I see Darnell Nurse remains one of the most spectacularly stupid athletes in the NHL.
Breakers
Make Mirrored Visors Legal Again
On the Myers thing :
I agree with @orcatown that he wasn't *that* bad last night. Wasn't on the ice for a goal, was OK-ish defensively. We've seen him be a lot worse.
But that was a 'good' Myers game and it was still painful to watch. Lots of fumbling with the puck on his stick, poor passes and decision-making, weird positioning. The play where we were on an extended-pressure shift (maybe our best of the game) and then he awkwardly took a pass on his backhand and knocked it out of the zone to kill the pressure basically summed up his night.
The comparison with another tall defender in Soucy - who always seemed to be in the right place, using his stick well, making smart safe plays - was jarring.
Some players give you confidence when you watch them. Myers always does the opposite.
I agree with @orcatown that he wasn't *that* bad last night. Wasn't on the ice for a goal, was OK-ish defensively. We've seen him be a lot worse.
But that was a 'good' Myers game and it was still painful to watch. Lots of fumbling with the puck on his stick, poor passes and decision-making, weird positioning. The play where we were on an extended-pressure shift (maybe our best of the game) and then he awkwardly took a pass on his backhand and knocked it out of the zone to kill the pressure basically summed up his night.
The comparison with another tall defender in Soucy - who always seemed to be in the right place, using his stick well, making smart safe plays - was jarring.
Some players give you confidence when you watch them. Myers always does the opposite.
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