Former Bruins EX Bruins Discussion Thread

[ON3M4N]

Plenty of players have said they toned it down because there were players on the other side that would take them to task.



HockeyBuzz.com - Sheng Peng - Who's Afraid of Ryan Reaves? 3 Scouts Weigh In

HB: Are you less likely to cheap shot an opposing team's star if Ryan Reaves is his teammate?

Former AHL defenseman: I think he creates space for others. He makes those dirty, cheapshot guys a little more accountable.

The game has changed, so those kind of guys are a little more comfortable out there.

Ryan Reaves gives his teammates comfort and gives his opposition a little discomfort.

Former NHL defenseman: I'm sure some guys are [less likely]. It's a deterrent.

Former NHL forward: 100%.

Lets put some names to these players, who are they?

 

[LouJersey]

Lets put some names to these players, who are they?

Who cares? You have people that played at the highest level saying intimidation exists vs internet message posters that say it doesn't. Do you really think they are the only current or ex players that feel this way? Again, it's not 100%, nothing ever is, you will still have the sociopaths...but even if you reduce some of the other chances?

 

[jgatie]

Which players said it? If were talking about a skill guy vs a goon, sure they are going to change the way they play. If its a goon talking about another goon there is a sliver of merit. So who are the quotes by and who were they talking about?

I don't think [fighting is] a bad thing. I think because there's fighting, there's a form of respect out on the ice and that this game has, and it kind of makes our game what it is today. You look at the people we have in our game. We have good people and well-respected people, and you don't get away with too many freebies out there when you know there's a chance you may have to drop the gloves and go.

- Trevor Daley

I think there's a time and a place for it when you're defending your teammates and not letting guys take liberties. But as far as staged fighting, I don't feel that there's a place for that.

- Cam Ward

You know that if you do something that maybe crosses the line, you know you're going to have to answer for it more than a penalty. ... It keeps guys in check.

- Ian Cole

I think it's still important though because you don't want other teams taking runs at your best players and stuff like that, and get it out of control.

- Mark Giordano

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/18638712/nhl-big-question-players-see-role-fighting-game

 

[jgatie]

If they take fighting out, and guys aren’t worried about answering the bell, I guarantee more people will get hurt from an increase in open-ice body checks.
How do I know for a fact? Because I think about it myself all the time as an enforcer. If I know there’s a guy on the other team who might kick my ass at any second, I’m thinking twice about taking a guy’s head off going across the middle.

- Brandon Prust

Why We Fight | By Brandon Prust

 

[ON3M4N]

Who cares? You have people that played at the highest level saying intimidation exists vs internet message posters that say it doesn't. Do you really think they are the only current or ex players that feel this way? Again, it's not 100%, nothing ever is, you will still have the sociopaths...but even if you reduce some of the other chances?

Sure it matters. You'll deter the guys that you don't typically have to worry about anyways. Does Reeves deter Wilson or vise versa? not really. The players that are notorious for taking liberties are going to take them no matter who is on the ice. Those are the players I'm talking about. Hell Kane fought Chara last year and it didn't stop him from running around against the Bruins this year did it? No because its just his style.

 

[ON3M4N]

https://www.espn.com/nhl/story/_/id/18638712/nhl-big-question-players-see-role-fighting-game

Not a single one of those are guys who are notorious for taking liberties saying that they don't because certain players are on the ice. All you've pointed to is an article that talks about fighting's role in hockey. Again Savy career was basically ended while Boston had some of the most intimidating players in their line-up. Sorry I just don't agree with what your view on this is. With that, there really is much more to discuss so have a great day.

 

[jgatie]

The threat of a fight, or the fear of doing something that might trigger retaliation, is a powerful deterrent. It always has been, and it always will be.

- Bobby Orr

Read the entire article here, it is quite enlightening.

There is a place for fighting in hockey: Bobby Orr

 

[jgatie]

Not a single one of those are guys who are notorious for taking liberties saying that they don't because certain players are on the ice. All you've pointed to is an article that talks about fighting's role in hockey. Again Savy career was basically ended while Boston had some of the most intimidating players in their line-up. Sorry I just don't agree with what your view on this is. With that, there really is much more to discuss so have a great day.

See the Brandon Prust quote just below that one. Certainly Brandon Prust was known for "taking liberties", no?

 

[LouJersey]

Sure it matters. You'll deter the guys that you don't typically have to worry about anyways. Does Reeves deter Wilson or vise versa? not really. The players that are notorious for taking liberties are going to take them no matter who is on the ice. Those are the players I'm talking about. Hell Kane fought Chara last year and it didn't stop him from running around against the Bruins this year did it? No because its just his style.

Nobody is saying they do. Maybe Reaves deters Hathaway and Gudas from playing their A game physically? Maybe Wilson does the same to Carrier or whatever other dirt bag they have.

Kane is the same type player, so that's a bad example. The point of the whole thing is NHL players, current and Ex say it is a deterrent to some players, and since it's unquantifiable keyboard jockeys say nah, doesn't matter, NHL players don't feel like that.

 

[LouJersey]

Read the entire article here, it is quite enlightening.

There is a place for fighting in hockey: Bobby Orr

What does Bobby Orr know?

 

[LouJersey]

See the Brandon Prust quote just below that one. Certainly Brandon Prust was known for "taking liberties", no?

I remember playing pick up hockey in HS.... We had a ":neighborhood" hockey league and played on each others lakes...Some of the teams you knew you could steamroll physically and some had some big guys who were not afraid to throw down....I guess it's not human nature and I'm just a cherry because I certainly played differently...

 

[LSCII]

Agree to disagree Lonnie. I'll take the word of actual players, not to mention the traits of human nature, over your pure speculation.

Right on, man. Not trying to change anyone's opinion of this. Just giving my take. And the way I see it a guy like Reaves doesn't deter the true asshats like Wilson, but is simply there for when that guy does do something stupid. I've been pretty consistent with regards to this argument in that I'm sure some of the less physical/softer players are intimidated by other players like Chara or Reaves. I just don't think it necessarily applies to the complete morons like the Matt Cooke's, Rafi Torres', Tom Wilson's of the game since they've clearly got issues to start with.

 

[jgatie]

I remember playing pick up hockey in HS.... We had a ":neighborhood" hockey league and played on each others lakes...Some of the teams you knew you could steamroll physically and some had some big guys who were not afraid to throw down....I guess it's not human nature and I'm just a cherry because I certainly played differently...

I played too. I would be lying if I said the presence of a big guy with a mean streak on the other side didn't change my game one bit.

 

[jgatie]

Right on, man. Not trying to change anyone's opinion of this. Just giving my take. And the way I see it a guy like Reaves doesn't deter the true asshats like Wilson, but is simply there for when that guy does do something stupid. I've been pretty consistent with regards to this argument in that I'm sure some of the less physical/softer players are intimidated by other players like Chara or Reaves. I just don't think it necessarily applies to the complete morons like the Matt Cooke's, Rafi Torres', Tom Wilson's of the game since they've clearly got issues to start with.

I never claimed it stopped every incident or every player. I do think Wilson is susceptible, for I've seen what appears to be him going from tiger to p***ycat after a talking to from Chara. His actions when Chara was out of the lineup also point to that.

But again, agree to disagree.

 

[ON3M4N]

Why We Fight | By Brandon Prust

He said he'd think twice, but didn't say he wouldn't do it lol. He's also talking about why fighting needs to be in hockey and I don't disagree. What I disagree with is that your going to stop the guys who you consistently need to worry about ie the Wilson's of the world. The guys that are borderline can be deterred by guys like Chara.

Like I said previously, we wont agree so we'll just it at that. You and @LouJersey enjoy talking about it though you seem to be on the same page.

 

[ON3M4N]

What does Bobby Orr know?

No one is arguing that there isn't a place for fighting in hockey though lol

 

[jgatie]

He said he'd think twice, but didn't say he wouldn't do it lol. He's also talking about why fighting needs to be in hockey and I don't disagree. What I disagree with is that your going to stop the guys who you consistently need to worry about ie the Wilson's of the world. The guys that are borderline can be deterred by guys like Chara.

Like I said previously, we wont agree so we'll just it at that. You and @LouJersey enjoy talking about it though you seem to be on the same page.

Nobody said the psychos would be deterred every time. It's you and Lonnie who said nobody is ever deterred by anyone. Which just isn't true (by your own goal post moving admission above).

 

[ON3M4N]

Nobody said the psychos would be deterred every time. It's you and Lonnie who said nobody is ever deterred by anyone. Which just isn't true (by your own goal post moving admission above).

Where did I say this?

Just because it's there doesn't mean it's going to stop everyone.

^That's a direct quote from when we started talking about this. Its still valid, it wont stop everyone. The Wilson's and Kane's of the world are still going to run around and take their liberties and those are the guys I'd worry about. The guys that play on the edge and sometimes cross the line are not as much of a concern and fall into a category that could think twice.

Sounds like you're arguing with me about something I didn't say.

 

[jgatie]

Where did I say this?



^That's a direct quote from when we started talking about this. Its still valid, it wont stop everyone. The Wilson's and Kane's of the world are still going to run around and take their liberties and those are the guys I'd worry about. The guys that play on the edge and sometimes cross the line are not as much of a concern and fall into a category that could think twice.

Sounds like you're arguing with me about something I didn't say.

If that is the case, then mea culpa. Lonnie has certainly said that nobody has ever been deterred by anyone. It's his mantra.

 

[LSCII]

If that is the case, then mea culpa. Lonnie has certainly said that nobody has ever been deterred by anyone. It's his mantra.

Nope. Not even close, but why stop being wrong when you can misrepresent something I post??

What I said (and have consistently said) is that intimidation only works on softer non-physical players and not on the types that have a screw loose. And the crazy ones are the real problem, not the 10 ply (Letterkenny rules, btw) tissue types. So what are you truly intimidating? A guy like Frolik from not fighting even though he's never had a fight in this league? Is there value in that, really?

 

[jgatie]

Nope. Not even close, but why stop being wrong when you can misrepresent something I post??

What I said (and have consistently said) is that intimidation only works on softer non-physical players and not on the types that have a screw loose. And the crazy ones are the real problem, not the 10 ply (Letterkenny rules, btw) tissue types. So what are you truly intimidating? A guy like Frolik from not fighting even though he's never had a fight in this league? Is there value in that, really?

Are you going to tell me you have never said the threat of a fight has never stopped dirty play? Really Lonnie? Don't make me search:

You can't really be this obtuse and think having physical players stops anything, since it's been proven it doesn't.

It's already been proven that having a fighter on the roster doesn't prevent any of these kinds of things because the people that do them are clowns like Wilson. So given there's no actual value in a so called deterrent, what can be done? Anything like signing a fighter or an enforcer would be really for the aftermath, and not for preventing the incident, so is that truly worth it?

Do you honestly think that a guy that fights on the other team is really going to stop Wilson from doing what he wants? Nah. Never has, never will. I love fights and physical play too. I just don't need to attach my liking of fights and physical play to some false narrative of it being a deterrent.

 

[LSCII]

Are you going to tell me you have never said the threat of a fight has never stopped dirty play? Really Lonnie? Don't make me search:

Yeah, two out of the three posts you tried to use to prove your false narrative specifically mention Wilson and clowns like Wilson. Hmm. Weird, right?

 

[jgatie]

Yeah, two out of the three posts you tried to use to prove your false narrative specifically mention Wilson and clowns like Wilson. Hmm. Weird, right?

No, it's a misnomer that enforcers stop anything. They don't. At all. They may ultimately try to engage with the offending party at some point (usually well after the fact), but it never stops it from actually happening like the pro goon crowd wants to sell everyone. It doesn't. Ever.

No you can't. It's literally not quantifiable. Which is why I skew towards what has actually happened. And over the course of multiple seasons, with an enforcer on the roster, they've seen star players get run and concussed repeatedly. So if having an enforcer is a deterrent, I guess I'm still waiting for that kind of hit to be stopped just by the sheer presence of a goon.

Want more?

 

[LSCII]

Want more?

Again, you can twist it any way you want. I've said over and over what my view is. You're really now trying to argue what my point is? Seriously? Gotta give you credit for that one man. Next level.

The enforcer discussion was within the framework of what exactly did a roster with Shawn Thornton, Chara, McQuaid, Seidenberg, and Kmiller really stop from happening when the team had star players like Bergeron, Savard, Eriksson, etc all get injured and knocked out of games via cheap shots? You know since all were physical players that weren't afraid to drop the gloves? Context does matter, and again, you're better than this usually...

But okay, if you want to tell me what my view is, go right ahead...lol

 

[jgatie]

Again, you can twist it any way you want. I've said over and over what my view is. You're really now trying to argue what my point is? Seriously? Gotta give you credit for that one man. Next level.

The enforcer discussion was within the framework of what exactly did a roster with Shawn Thornton, Chara, McQuaid, Seidenberg, and Kmiller really stop from happening when the team had star players like Bergeron, Savard, Eriksson, etc all get injured and knocked out of games via cheap shots? You know since all were physical players that weren't afraid to drop the gloves? Context does matter, and again, you're better than this usually...

But okay, if you want to tell me what my view is, go right ahead...lol

Your words belie your stated opinion. Not my fault you move the goalposts.