Former Bruins EX Bruins Discussion Thread

[ON3M4N]

I thought that fight was fine. He was in total control and then buckled a bit when he caught one on the chin.

However, please let's not forget the guy just had jaw surgery at the end of December and refuses to wear a cage and still steps up when one of his guys get hit. I'd challenge any player in the League, 20 years old or 42 years old, to have jaw surgery and then 10 days or so later to drop the gloves. I really doubt many players felt overly empowered seeing that. If anything the fact he's willing to drop in that situation should frighten some -- quite a bit, actually.

Not only that, but the punch he took would drop most players. Chara wobbled, got back up and finished the fight.

 

[ON3M4N]

Are there actual quotes from Wilson saying he wouldn't hit someone because Chara was on the ice?

 

[jgatie]

Chara? Come on man. He got clocked by one punch last game by a far smaller guy in his first NHL fight, FFS. He's not a deterrent to anyone at this stage. And the only nonsense here is the way you cling to this falsehood that the guys who do real, actual dirt are in any way, shape or form intimidated by anyone. They're not. Simple fact.

So because he took a punch means he's not intimidating? I saw Neely get one punched to the ground by Kleinendorst, does that mean Neely wasn't intimidating?

As to people being intimidated into playing differently, I'll believe actual pro hockey players. You know, guys who actually play the game?

 

[jgatie]

Are there actual quotes from Wilson saying he wouldn't hit someone because Chara was on the ice?

Not that I know of, but there are plenty of quotes from hockey players who say they played differently depending on who was on their team vs who was on the other team.

 

[ON3M4N]

Not that I know of, but there are plenty of quotes from hockey players who say they played differently depending on who was on their team vs who was on the other team.

I'm kind of confused then how you can say, "I've already quoted elsewhere the games where Wilson was neutered by Chara."

 

[jgatie]

I'm kind of confused then how you can say, "I've already quoted elsewhere the games where Wilson was neutered by Chara."

It was an observation I made. I cited a game I attended where Chara grabbed Wilson after a questionable hit and gave him a talking to. Wilson was docile for the rest of the game. Maybe "quoted" was the wrong word, except I actually did quote a post of mine from after the actual game.

 

[Jim]

Are there actual quotes from Wilson saying he wouldn't hit someone because Chara was on the ice?

You’re arguing against something that has been a constant since the dawn of mankind. Intimidation absolutely influences behavior, whether it is a caveman with a bigger stick, a country with a bigger army, or a hockey team with bigger, badder players. Sure, someone is always going to take a potshot, because the rules of the game and humanity will stop things before a tough guy can break all their bones, but nobody is going to play the same game against an aggressive team that they would against a group of pacifists.

 

[BNHL]

Chara? Come on man. He got clocked by one punch last game by a far smaller guy in his first NHL fight, FFS. He's not a deterrent to anyone at this stage. And the only nonsense here is the way you cling to this falsehood that the guys who do real, actual dirt are in any way, shape or form intimidated by anyone. They're not. Simple fact.

Then they are not human. There is a reason why the Semenkos and McSorleys and Rays got a grip on this league,it began with protection and intimidation

and progressed to trying to neutralize that. If Chara was capable of really tuning up Wilson,like he did David Koci,you think that Wilson wouldn't pause next time around, I think you are dead wrong. I remember Louis DeBrusk saying he'd be vomiting before games when he knew he'd have to fight,I also heard Nystrom saying he was scared of Glen Cochrane and he was losing sleep over it as was Clark Gillies about Behn Wilson.

 

[ON3M4N]

It was an observation I made. I cited a game I attended where Chara grabbed Wilson after a questionable hit and gave him a talking to. Wilson was docile for the rest of the game. Maybe "quoted" was the wrong word, except I actually did quote a post of mine from after the actual game.

So then its just an opinion. Without being on the ice to hear what was said or what the situation was, you're just speculating.

 

[BNHL]

You’re arguing against something that has been a constant since the dawn of mankind. Intimidation absolutely influences behavior, whether it is a caveman with a bigger stick, a country with a bigger army, or a hockey team with bigger, badder players. Sure, someone is always going to take a potshot, because the rules of the game and humanity will stop things before a tough guy can break all their bones, but nobody is going to play the same game against an aggressive team that they would against a group of pacifists.

It is an absolute,you can intimidate nearly anyone,they are not brainless gladiators. Behavior modification through intimidation is as basic as breathing.

 

[Dr Hook]

Then they are not human. There is a reason why the Semenkos and McSorleys and Rays got a grip on this league,it began with protection and intimidation

and progressed to trying to neutralize that. If Chara was capable of really tuning up Wilson,like he did David Koci,you think that Wilson wouldn't pause next time around, I think you are dead wrong. I remember Louis DeBrusk saying he'd be vomiting before games when he knew he'd have to fight,I also heard Nystrom saying he was scared of Glen Cochrane and he was losing sleep over it as was Clark Gillies about Behn Wilson.

Some of that has to do with the culture of the game when those guys played too. They knew they were going to have to fight- their role, their standing among their peers, job security etc. demanded that they do so. It isn't that way any more. Teams don't sign guys just to fight anymore. Players have to be able to play the game and no player really has to fight if they don't want to. There aren't any real consequences to skating away. Oh, some fans will get upset or write a nasty forum post or tweet, but in the league, the culture has changed.

 

[BNHL]

I thought that fight was fine. He was in total control and then buckled a bit when he caught one on the chin.

However, please let's not forget the guy just had jaw surgery at the end of December and refuses to wear a cage and still steps up when one of his guys get hit. I'd challenge any player in the League, 20 years old or 42 years old, to have jaw surgery and then 10 days or so later to drop the gloves. I really doubt many players felt overly empowered seeing that. If anything the fact he's willing to drop in that situation should frighten some -- quite a bit, actually.

He's a friggin mess when fighting,stumbling awkwardly.Trenin is 6'2-201 and managed to hold his own,while buckling Chara's knees with one right on the nose,in what would have been a dominant statement from a 30 year old Chara.

 

[Dr Hook]

It is an absolute,you can intimidate nearly anyone,they are not brainless gladiators. Behavior modification through intimidation is as basic as breathing.

n

I'll just add to this that intimidation only really works if there are actual consequences being implied. If a player knows he isn't going to ever have to fight a guy if he chooses not to and there are no consequences to it, it's pretty hard to get intimidated.

 

[BNHL]

Some of that has to do with the culture of the game when those guys played too. They knew they were going to have to fight- their role, their standing among their peers, job security etc. demanded that they do so. It isn't that way any more. Teams don't sign guys just to fight anymore. Players have to be able to play the game and no player really has to fight if they don't want to. There aren't any real consequences to skating away. Oh, some fans will get upset or write a nasty forum post or tweet, but in the league, the culture has changed.

The point is that Wilson doesn't have to fear anyone,he doesn't really have to answer to anyone,so he's free to run around as he likes. He was slapping around Pastrnak for f*** sakes,and not one check got cashed.

 

[jgatie]

So then its just an opinion. Without being on the ice to hear what was said or what the situation was, you're just speculating.

I admit it was just speculating. However, I have the actions of Chara and the subsequent reaction of Wilson to back up that speculation. Whereas the speculation that "the threat of facing retribution never stops anybody" flies in the face of fact, namely the fact that actual NHL players say the opposite.

 

[BNHL]

n

I'll just add to this that intimidation only really works if there are actual consequences being implied. If a player knows he isn't going to ever have to fight a guy if he chooses not to and there are no consequences to it, it's pretty hard to get intimidated.

You give him no choice,sure he can run away or turtle,do you think Wilson is going to do that? Along with being a tough guy,comes a massive ego.

 

[Dr Hook]

You give him no choice,sure he can run away or turtle,do you think Wilson is going to do that? Along with being a tough guy,comes a massive ego.

Okay, fair point if you get a guy whose own ego won't let him turtle, but they have that option now whereas in past generations they didn't feel like they could. And for what it's worth, even if a player is scared of Wilson pounding them into goo, they can still scrum at him and know nothing bad is really going to happen if they don't drop the gloves. Pasta stood up to him and so did Grizz. Both of them knew they weren't going to have to fight Wilson and no one would blame them or think badly of them for not doing it (or for turtling if Wilson attacked) and I saw nothing afterwards that showed me either guy was playing scared or differently because Wilson got in their faces.

 

[LSCII]

It was an observation I made. I cited a game I attended where Chara grabbed Wilson after a questionable hit and gave him a talking to. Wilson was docile for the rest of the game. Maybe "quoted" was the wrong word, except I actually did quote a post of mine from after the actual game.

Yet despite Chara being there the entire time, Wilson STILL threw a questionable hit that resulted in Chara giving him a stern lecture. So in reality, it didn't stop anything, like I've been saying the whole time. Your anecdotal evidence of being at the game aside, Wilson still pulled BS. He may not have pulled more BS that game, but attributing it to the talking to he got from Chara is pure speculation on your end. Maybe the ref told him to knock it off? Maybe his coach said he'd get benched if he put the team in a PK situation. You simply do not know and cannot actually prove it. The only thing that can be proven is that Wilson still took a liberty, despite whomever was on the other side. Why he didn't take more is nothing more than you injecting your own personal opinion on this subject and attributing it to someone that helps prove your point. Completely weak, imo. You're better than this...

 

[jgatie]

Yet despite Chara being there the entire time, Wilson STILL threw a questionable hit that resulted in Chara giving him a stern lecture. So in reality, it didn't stop anything, like I've been saying the whole time. Your anecdotal evidence of being at the game aside, Wilson still pulled BS. He may not have pulled more BS that game, but attributing it to the talking to he got from Chara is pure speculation on your end. Maybe the ref told him to knock it off? Maybe his coach said he'd get benched if he put the team in a PK situation. You simply do not know and cannot actually prove it. The only thing that can be proven is that Wilson still took a liberty, despite whomever was on the other side. Why he didn't take more is nothing more than you injecting your own personal opinion on this subject and attributing it to someone that helps prove your point. Completely weak, imo. You're better than this...

Agree to disagree Lonnie. I'll take the word of actual players, not to mention the traits of human nature, over your pure speculation.

 

[LouJersey]

You’re arguing against something that has been a constant since the dawn of mankind. Intimidation absolutely influences behavior, whether it is a caveman with a bigger stick, a country with a bigger army, or a hockey team with bigger, badder players. Sure, someone is always going to take a potshot, because the rules of the game and humanity will stop things before a tough guy can break all their bones, but nobody is going to play the same game against an aggressive team that they would against a group of pacifists.

Washington Capitals at Boston Bruins Box Score — November 16, 2019 | Hockey-Reference.com

first couple shifts of the game Ritchie challenged Gudas after hitting him and Gudas declined. Chara confronted Wilson. Ritchie in the face of Hathaway later in the first. Quiet game by Caps standards.

 

[ON3M4N]

You’re arguing against something that has been a constant since the dawn of mankind. Intimidation absolutely influences behavior, whether it is a caveman with a bigger stick, a country with a bigger army, or a hockey team with bigger, badder players. Sure, someone is always going to take a potshot, because the rules of the game and humanity will stop things before a tough guy can break all their bones, but nobody is going to play the same game against an aggressive team that they would against a group of pacifists.

Have to wonder why Savard has his career ended when we had guys like Lucic and Chara in their prime than. Clearly didn't stop Dallas from taking shots either as we all remember the brawl that took place between those two. Even at his age Chara is the biggest guy in the NHL and one of the strongest. He has a reach that 99.9% of the league can't match and can rag doll people....doesn't stop players from getting run.

 

[jgatie]

Have to wonder why Savard has his career ended when we had guys like Lucic and Chara in their prime than. Clearly didn't stop Dallas from taking shots either as we all remember the brawl that took place between those two. Even at his age Chara is the biggest guy in the NHL and one of the strongest. He has a reach that 99.9% of the league can't match and can rag doll people....doesn't stop ALL players from getting run.

FIFY.

 

[ON3M4N]

I admit it was just speculating. However, I have the actions of Chara and the subsequent reaction of Wilson to back up that speculation. Whereas the speculation that "the threat of facing retribution never stops anybody" flies in the face of fact, namely the fact that actual NHL players say the opposite.

Which players said it? If were talking about a skill guy vs a goon, sure they are going to change the way they play. If its a goon talking about another goon there is a sliver of merit. So who are the quotes by and who were they talking about?

 

[LouJersey]

I admit it was just speculating. However, I have the actions of Chara and the subsequent reaction of Wilson to back up that speculation. Whereas the speculation that "the threat of facing retribution never stops anybody" flies in the face of fact, namely the fact that actual NHL players say the opposite.

Plenty of players have said they toned it down because there were players on the other side that would take them to task.



HockeyBuzz.com - Sheng Peng - Who's Afraid of Ryan Reaves? 3 Scouts Weigh In

HB: Are you less likely to cheap shot an opposing team's star if Ryan Reaves is his teammate?

Former AHL defenseman: I think he creates space for others. He makes those dirty, cheapshot guys a little more accountable.

The game has changed, so those kind of guys are a little more comfortable out there.

Ryan Reaves gives his teammates comfort and gives his opposition a little discomfort.

Former NHL defenseman: I'm sure some guys are [less likely]. It's a deterrent.

Former NHL forward: 100%.

HB: But then we saw in LA, in Reaves's first game, Clifford threw a cheapshot on Lindberg.

Former NHL forward: I was very surprised. Clifford looked very intimidated by Reaves afterwards. He knew he was coming at him. Clifford didn't want it to happen.

But there other guys in the league who would be less likely to take a cheapshot knowing Reaves is over there.

HB: You would have been?

Former NHL forward: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

And sometimes, it's not just Reaves. It's just knowing that a guy will step up.

A guy like Micheal Haley. He's not super-tough. Or Tanner Glass. Both tough guys, but not as tough as Reaves. Just knowing they will come out at you. I don't want to have to fight every night.

But that feeling is even stronger with a guy like Reaves, who will not only fight you, but beat the s*** out of you.

 

[ON3M4N]

FIFY.

Still waiting for examples outside of a game you saw once and you've admitted is speculation.