OT: Everything COVID19 - PART 8

[Sens of Anarchy]

This is a crisis.. wow have to feel for these people from all sides

 

[coladin]

Right on! Are you tired at all today? I had no chills or aches but holy crap i was tired the next day.

Don't want to jinx it but feel perfectly normal so far, and it has been 24 hours.

Apparently, nothing scientific, but of all the people in the 40+ that are struggling, about a dozen that I know, the ones that have a lot of side effect haven't had the flu shot...ever. Interesting?

 

[JD1]

@coladin interesting

I've never had a flu shot. I struggled for 24 hours and then was fine

 

[Rand0m]

Don't want to jinx it but feel perfectly normal so far, and it has been 24 hours.

Apparently, nothing scientific, but of all the people in the 40+ that are struggling, about a dozen that I know, the ones that have a lot of side effect haven't had the flu shot...ever. Interesting?

My American co-workers are saying the 2nd shot is often the "worst" in terms of reaction (slight fever/chills on the 2nd where often nothing on the 1st). They seem to theorize that the 1st shot is the one teaching your body about the virus but in a very targeted way, while the 2nd dose is basically simulating your body getting infected, in this case, your immune system is familiar with this foreign invader and it's very fresh in the immune systems "memory" so it's all hands on deck and thus a fever develops!

I wonder if maybe the ones with a stronger reaction to the 1st shot had some previous low level exposure to covid, maybe not enough to make them noticeably sick but enough to develop an immune response?

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I don't think as a thought it's all that "unhinged" maybe only if you're overestimating the possibility of it happening based on a couple off hand previous scenarios, I just think it's a very unlikely scenario for the vaccines with all the checks and balances we have today. People have messed up before and it's human tendency to focus on ST solutions that looking back on in hindsight many would think, "what were they thinking, could they not see the train coming?".

Anyways, my point was, if having that thought come up at some point is unhinged, then I'm unhinged, because I think it's totally possible humanity could be the author of its own demise someday.

But I don't think this is that time. Looking at the risk profile of vaccine or covid, right now the vaccine is far and away the logical choice and I plan to get mine when I have the chance.

The only worry I have is in the repeat dosages and the boosters + the quick approval they'll be getting. I believe MRNA has been around for awhile just never used in humans. I think the safety profile had been called into question mainly due to toxicity at large doses in animals, but right now there are tens of millions of people out there proving that the currently approved doses are fine.

I think it's all but guaranteed by now. All this tinkering with nature is forcing bugs, germs, viruses and whatnot to evolve at a much faster rate than nature intended. Sooner or later, our science won't be able to keep up with it.

Then we'll be in deep shit as a species.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

But why? If mass vaccination as quickly as possible is the most effective approach from a public health standpoint then what's the benefit of half measures?

Politics? Optics? Limited information at the early stages of the pandemic?

If we were giving young people the vaxx at a time when nearly all deaths were in the senior crowd, people would scream. If we did first come first serve, the older folks (and biggest voting block) would take aim at whatever provincial/federal governments were in charge and riot.

This is a Kobayashi Maru scenario. There is no right solution.

 

[Micklebot]

Don't want to jinx it but feel perfectly normal so far, and it has been 24 hours.

Apparently, nothing scientific, but of all the people in the 40+ that are struggling, about a dozen that I know, the ones that have a lot of side effect haven't had the flu shot...ever. Interesting?

I got my poke yesterday (Pfizer though, as a essential caregiver), no side effects whatsoever other than a sore arm. I didn't get the flu vaccine this year, but usually do.

A couple people in my office said they had some mild symptoms with AZ, no clue if they had the flu vaccine though.

 

[Micklebot]

Politics? Optics? Limited information at the early stages of the pandemic?

If we were giving young people the vaxx at a time when nearly all deaths were in the senior crowd, people would scream. If we did first come first serve, the older folks (and biggest voting block) would take aim at whatever provincial/federal governments were in charge and riot.

This is a Kobayashi Maru scenario. There is no right solution.

As a complete laymen on the subject, my thought it when supply is limited, it makes more sense to protect the most vulnerable, when supply is ample, it makes the most sense to target nexuses of transmission. This assumes the most vulnerable is a much smaller group while the nexus of transmission. If you have a supply that is fairly large, but still needs to be triaged, your suggestion about targeting both groups seems ideal.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

As a complete laymen on the subject, my thought it when supply is limited, it makes more sense to protect the most vulnerable, when supply is ample, it makes the most sense to target nexuses of transmission. This assumes the most vulnerable is a much smaller group while the nexus of transmission. If you have a supply that is fairly large, but still needs to be triaged, your suggestion about targeting both groups seems ideal.

What makes sense doesn't always get the votes though. That's the problem. Humans, politics, fear and the unknown...it all makes for a situation where there will be people screaming at any way the government chose to go with vaccine distribution.

 

[DrEasy]

As a complete laymen on the subject, my thought it when supply is limited, it makes more sense to protect the most vulnerable, when supply is ample, it makes the most sense to target nexuses of transmission. This assumes the most vulnerable is a much smaller group while the nexus of transmission. If you have a supply that is fairly large, but still needs to be triaged, your suggestion about targeting both groups seems ideal.

That's my reasoning too; people saying they should have used the vaccines on the most exposed vs the most vulnerable right from the start might be forgetting that we just didn't have enough vaccines initially.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

You are most welcome.

It's my pleasure to assist with your safety and those of others, particularly those unable to contribute to herd immunity for legitimate reasons like having immuno-compromised conditions.

It's a fairly selfless act with an extremely low degree of risk and it's my obligation to help out where I can as a member of society.

And every ICU health care worker thanks you. We are getting our asses kicked and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. So thanks for helping us get to a point that we can do non emergent surgeries again (among many other things).

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

Don't want to jinx it but feel perfectly normal so far, and it has been 24 hours.

Apparently, nothing scientific, but of all the people in the 40+ that are struggling, about a dozen that I know, the ones that have a lot of side effect haven't had the flu shot...ever. Interesting?

Definitely interesting. Although in my family, we all get the flu shot, and only my dad and I had no symptoms (my husband, MIL, mom and FIL all felt pretty run down).

 

[Billy Bridges]

I wonder if maybe the ones with a stronger reaction to the 1st shot had some previous low level exposure to covid, maybe not enough to make them noticeably sick but enough to develop an immune response?

This is hard to prove, but very likely true.

 

[Stylizer1]

cant wait for covid to be over so the world can get hysterical about climate change again.

 

[Fandlauer]

I got the Pfizer shot last week. My arm felt like it got kicked by a horse and I slept for 14 hours right after, but no other side effects other than that. That thing sure did tire me out though. I'm mid 30s and have never had a flu shot.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

cant wait for covid to be over so the world can get hysterical about climate change again.

It's here to stay. By next year we'll be talking about Covid-34

 

[Do Make Say Think]

It's here to stay. By next year we'll be talking about Covid-34

You are aware that the "19" is there because it was discovered in 2019 right?

 

[DylanSensFan]

I think it's all but guaranteed by now. All this tinkering with nature is forcing bugs, germs, viruses and whatnot to evolve at a much faster rate than nature intended. Sooner or later, our science won't be able to keep up with it.

Then we'll be in deep shit as a species.

Tinkering with nature? We're part of nature. Some humans seem to have forgotten that. It wasn't tinkering that caused COVID-19 to jump species. It was poor dietary habits, poor sanitation, poor treatment of our fellow animals in Chinese wet markets. Traditional dietary habits, such as those practiced by the Chinese, related to Chinese medicine are going to kill us. Not science. The mRNA vaccines for example, are simple "bi0mimicry." As we've seen, tradition, religion, and anti-enlighenment actions have caused the most spread and the most deaths related to this COVID virus.

Overpopulation might destroy the livability of our planet for humans as a species, but the planet will never die, unless the sun expands. The way to deal with overpopulation is raise the living standards for the current human population to middle class, and less children will result for the purpose of child labour and the population will level out at 7-billion or less, instead of continually growing. Better living standards and education also lead people away from wet markets, where diseases like COVID germinate.

 

[DylanSensFan]

For those interested in biomimicry. Here is an article on nano particles, such as the spike protein being introduced by both the mRNA and vector based COVID vaccines: Bioinspired and Biomimetic Nanotherapies for the Treatment of Infectious Diseases

 

[Ice-Tray]

From what I gather BC has changed tactics and has now moved all/most vaccine dosages away from smaller areas to the highest infection health areas to vaccinate them first.

While it is technically our time here to get vaccinated, there are no vaccines here anymore. I respect the change and the reasoning behind it, but man we were close!

 

[Do Make Say Think]

cant wait for covid to be over so the world can get hysterical about climate change again.

There is a high degree of probability that climate change played a significant factor in the occurrence of the virus. Bats are getting displaced due to changing weather patterns.

Joe Rogan understands that climate change is an existential threat. Do you need me to link you to a video of his?

 

[HF Reader]

Jabbed with Moderna this morning. I know a few people who won't take the vaccine. One in particular is a real eyebrow-raiser. Explained that Bill Gates is behind the vaccine as a means to control the population (sterilization). Interestingly, also believes that Bill Gates proposed wrapping the sun in aluminum foil to prevent the earth from warming. I simply said "hmmm".

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

There is a high degree of probability that climate change played a significant factor in the occurrence of the virus. Bats are getting displaced due to changing weather patterns.

Joe Rogan understands that climate change is an existential threat. Do you need me to link you to a video of his?

While climate change is absolutely a threat and should be taken more seriously, using Joe Rogan as your expert to demonstrate this isn't the strongest strategy.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

While climate change is absolutely a threat and should be taken more seriously, using Joe Rogan as your expert to demonstrate this isn't the strongest strategy.

It is a joke because Joe Rogan is Stylizer1's God.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

It is a joke because Joe Rogan is Stylizer1's God.

Oh, hah, I missed that, I don't see his posts. Was wondering when you'd fallen off the deep end.