Confirmed with Link: Ethan Bear traded to Carolina for Warren Foegele

[North]

I mean the team has looked good, but can you say for sure that the defense would not be better with Bear? Its been pretty chaotic on the defensive end and we are on pace to allow more 5on5 goals then we did last year.

Since Bouch is on the top pair now, Barrie is pretty useless and is bleeding goals against, my opinion is that the team would be way better with Bouch, Bear, Ceci on the RD side.

It’s not like we were a defensive powerhouse with Bear.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

It’s not like we were a defensive powerhouse with Bear.

You are right about that and Bear is prone to some dumb mistakes defensively too - but marginal improvements are what we should be looking for right? I think Bear away from Nurse is > Barrie away from Nurse on the defensive side. All I am saying. Overall I think we would prob still need to upgrade the D, but I think it would of helped a bit.

 

[North]

Can you say for sure that it would be better with him?

Bouchard is clearly an upgrade on Bear, Bouchard took Bear’s minutes. So I guess yeah I can say it would be worse with Bear in that scenario.

Bear can’t handle carrying his own pairing. That’s why he only plays 18 minutes a night still and plays with Slavin instead of playing 20+ minutes a night with a lesser partner. Bear being paired with Keith could be decent, but no better than Ceci with Keith IMO as they’ve been very good. Bear with Russell or Kkkk would be a nightmare, probably worse than Barrie with them as he doesn’t provide anywhere close the offense Barrie does. Barrie is playing the same role that Bear would be if he was still here, except that Barrie is an elite PP guy, and our PP has been a large factor in our success this year.

Actually I think a Bear-Keith pairing would be a nightmare.

Part of why the Keith- Ceci pairing has worked more than it hasn’t is because of Ceci’s mobility.

 

[North]

You are right about that and Bear is prone to some dumb mistakes defensively too - but marginal improvements are what we should be looking for right? I think Bear away from Nurse is > Barrie away from Nurse on the defensive side. All I am saying. Overall I think we would prob still need to upgrade the D, but I think it would of helped a bit.

I get what you’re saying but I think we really needed to address the forward depth and part of why we are so good offensively is the depth Foegele provides.

 

[Barrsy]

Couple days ago he stated the Bruins were the best team we faced. I pointed out we had played 6, now 7 clubs with a better record, lol, already this season. It must be dark in that cave.

Careful, he may post his mythical bank account created by his mythical prowess at hockey betting to prove you wrong.
The next think I am expecting to hear was to say how high a level of hockey he played to prove how much more knowledgeable that he is to you (or whomever).

 

[Forgot About Drai]

I get what you’re saying but I think we really needed to address the forward depth and part of why we are so good offensively is the depth Foegele provides.

Yeah fair and I like Foegele as a player a lot and hes on the team now so I support him. I just wish their had been a more efficient way of obtaining that depth

 

[nabob]

I think Bear handles those third pairing minutes way better then Barrie. I dont know why Bouch should be the comparison. Bear last year was never stapled to Nurses side, it was Barrie. And now whos stapled to Nurse side Bouch.

I much rather have Bouch take over all Barrie PP mins. If Barrie was so good on the PP nurse wouldnt have taken so many minutes from his him on the PP last year or the PP would of been less effective when Nurse was on it.

So to me - Bouch should of been the Barrie replacement. He's already done it 5v5 and hes offensively gifted enough to do it on the PP too. Now the question is, who would you rather have on third pairing, Bear or Barrie? For me its Bear all day.

I would not want Bear to anchor the 3rd pair, or any pair. I also wouldn’t want to put that much pressure on Bouchard. Straight from the press box to top pair, top PP, playing tough defensive minutes too…why keep Bear at all if all he can be is a bottom pair Dman like you’re saying?

 

[Drivesaitl]

That’s when he changed to the narrative that when you play a team this season you can only judge how good they are based on their record from last year

Makes complete sense. lets judge this years basement dwelling type Canadiens as if they still had Weber, Price, Danault, Koko, etc still in their lineup, you know, their best players. heh

We're 15 games into this season. Its getting to be enough runway to see what clubs are looking like.

Seen enough as well to denote us a topsix club at worst.

 

[nabob]

Yeah fair and I like Foegele as a player a lot and hes on the team now so I support him. I just wish their had been a more efficient way of obtaining that depth

How much more efficient can you be then moving a guy who would be your 4th best RHD to start the season. We don’t have cap space to pay big free agent money to 3rd liners who play like Foegele, and we don’t have the cap space to pay Bear to play sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing like you suggest would be his really only effective spot.

Guess we could have let the top scoring Dman from the NHL last season walk, and hope that Bouchard could play top pairing minutes as well as top PP minutes. Then used Barries money to sign a good 3rd line wing through free agency (not sure who). Lots of scenarios that could have played out. But the one Holland went with has us at 11-3, with an elite PP, and a very good PK. I honestly think most of our issues 5v5 defensively are more related to how most of our forwards aren’t good enough on their own side of the opposing blue line.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

How much more efficient can you be then moving a guy who would be your 4th best RHD to start the season. We don’t have cap space to pay big free agent money to 3rd liners who play like Foegele, and we don’t have the cap space to pay Bear to play sheltered minutes on the 3rd pairing like you suggest would be his really only effective spot.

Guess we could have let the top scoring Dman from the NHL last season walk, and hope that Bouchard could play top pairing minutes as well as top PP minutes. Then used Barries money to sign a good 3rd line wing through free agency (not sure who). Lots of scenarios that could have played out. But the one Holland went with has us at 11-3, with an elite PP, and a very good PK. I honestly think most of our issues 5v5 defensively are more related to how most of our forwards aren’t good enough on their own side of the opposing blue line.

Yeah that is what I would of done tbh. I mean sure, letting Barrie go last year optically looks a little weird, but everyone and their mom knows Barrie is an extremely flawed player and you can certainly justify it.

Guys like Haula, Bonino and Janmark were signed for less then we are paying Barrie too.

Either way, I am not saying Bear would of solved all our problems by any means. I just think Bear is better suited for this spot then Barrie is and this trade wasnt a slam dunk as some are portraying. Our bottom 6 is still a big WIP and so is our D at the end of day. Lots of room to maneuver and the framework is there for a potentially Stanley cup winning team still so its not end of the world. I just think we would be marginally better off with Bear.

 

[nabob]

Yeah that is what I would of done tbh. I mean sure, letting Barrie go last year optically looks a little weird, but everyone and their mom knows Barrie is an extremely flawed player and you can certainly justify it.

Guys like Haula, Bonino and Janmark were signed for less then we are paying Barrie too.

Either way, I am not saying Bear would of solved all our problems by any means. I just think Bear is better suited for this spot then Barrie is and this trade wasnt a slam dunk as some are portraying. Our bottom 6 is still a big WIP and so is our D at the end of day. Lots of room to maneuver and the framework is there for a potentially Stanley cup winning team still so its not end of the world. I just think we would be marginally better off with Bear.

A couple things that I believe played a factor in Barrie coming back and Bear being moved are:

- he fits in very well with McDrai, they want him on the team.
- he took less to play here twice now because he wants to win and wants to be here.
- Bear was a difficult signing last time and came to camp out of shape.
- To put top pairing, top unit PP, and tough defensive minutes on Bouchard’s plate on day one would have been a mistake. Being able to ease him into the lineup, I believe, helped him find his footing and adjust easier.
- We had an opportunity to add a 3rd line winger who fits the exact mould of what we needed, adding a free agent winger is far from a guarantee as they may have not wanted to come here.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

A couple things that I believe played a factor in Barrie coming back and Bear being moved are:

- he fits in very well with McDrai, they want him on the team.
- he took less to play here twice now because he wants to win and wants to be here.
- Bear was a difficult signing last time and came to camp out of shape.
- To put top pairing, top unit PP, and tough defensive minutes on Bouchard’s plate on day one would have been a mistake. Being able to ease him into the lineup, I believe, helped him find his footing and adjust easier.
- We had an opportunity to add a 3rd line winger who fits the exact mould of what we needed, adding a free agent winger is far from a guarantee as they may have not wanted to come here.

All fair points and I see the logic no doubt.

I think the shock of Larsson leaving played a factor too.

 

[McDNicks17]

The Barrie signing came down to just not knowing what they had in Bouchard because they refused to play him last year, IMO.

 

[harpoon]

If Barrie was so good on the PP nurse wouldnt have taken so many minutes from his him on the PP last year or the PP would of been less effective when Nurse was on it.

If Barrie was so good he wouldn’t have been a top producer in the league for years, and the leading point producer among all NHL defensemen last season. Sometimes I just don’t get what this board wants.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

If Barrie was so good he wouldn’t have been a top producer in the league for years, and the leading point producer among all NHL defensemen last season. Sometimes I just don’t get what this board wants.

Did I ever say he was not talented or not good? People love to take it post out of context and try to fit it some classic Oil fans are negative agenda.

I was talking in context to the poster saying he would be concerned about the PP if Barrie had left. I replied w/ that there was some significant time where Barrie was not on the PP in favour of Nurse and it produced at basically the same effectiveness. I argued putting Bouch or Nurse there wouldnt have effected the PP very much.

 

[nabob]

Did I ever say he was not talented or not good? People love to take it post out of context and try to fit it some classic Oil fans are negative agenda.

I was talking in context to the poster saying he would be concerned about the PP if Barrie had left. I replied w/ that there was some significant time where Barrie was not on the PP in favour of Nurse and it produced at basically the same effectiveness. I argued putting Bouch or Nurse there wouldnt have effected the PP very much.

If you replace Barrie on the PP with Nurse then that’s less minutes that your most effective LH Dman can play in a PK or shutdown situation. Makes a lot more sense to have Barrie play to his strengths so that Nurse can play to his. Instead of playing Russell/Kkkk/Keith more in PK/shutdown type minutes just so Nurse can play the PP, just so we can keep Bear so that he can play 16-18 minutes a night being sheltered on the 3rd pair. I really don’t see any situation where keeping Bear instead of Barrie is a real benefit to the team as you have to move around a whole bunch of pieces and build the rest of your defense to accommodate Bear who can’t play important minutes unless he’s playing with Nurse, and even then needs to be taken off that pairing late in games to protect leads.

 

[nabob]

The Barrie signing came down to just not knowing what they had in Bouchard because they refused to play him last year, IMO.

Part of the reason why he didn’t get to play last year was because they were giving Bear and Jones one last chance to prove they were worth keeping going forward. Larsson was our best shutdown RH D, Barrie led the league in scoring for the PP and was quite good last year.

 

[TheNumber4]

Yeah fair and I like Foegele as a player a lot and hes on the team now so I support him. I just wish their had been a more efficient way of obtaining that depth

There are more efficient ways. Good Scouting to uncover gems playing in Euro leagues or Minors. Good scouting to undercover players in the the later rounds of the draft. Unfortunately the Oilers, couldn’t get either of these done with many kicks at the can. There’s still hope for our current kicks at the can though… but I guess we’ll see and I hope that help doesn’t come too late.

 

[yukoner88]

I trust my eyes and trust Carolina’s scouting. I’ll ignore the egregious gaffes made almost exclusively in 2 playoff games that made Bear “suck” according to the franchise. What happened to the expectation that Young D-man will make mistakes? Bear is a good player and the next couple of years will show this.

From a roster composition stand point the trade still probably makes sense. From a value standpoint point, I’ll stick to my original assessment and say Carolina will win this one.

I think it was more of a numbers game with Bear, rather than losing patience with him. With so many other young D starting to push things, he was the easiest one to deal and get something back that fills another need.

I don't think it's any more complicated than that

 

[TheNumber4]

The Barrie signing came down to just not knowing what they had in Bouchard because they refused to play him last year, IMO.

I don’t see it this way. I mean Bouch was drafted for the exact qualities he’s showing and showed in leaser Leagues and sparse chances at the roster last year. Also, keep in mind Barrie was plan B after Larsson spurned us too.

I think the reason Bouch didn’t see more time last year was because of a directive from Holland and management to maximize the value of picks, any picks. Bear was played and Jones was played, maybe they really take off but if they don’t they can atleast be shopped around the league as having NHL experience and maybe a GM out there just likes what they saw. Both Foegele and Kieth are rewards for this type of optimizing asset management. It cost us some ice time for Bouch, but there’s so much time for Bouch and time was running out with Jones and Bear. We’ll be doing something similar with Benson and McCleod now.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

If you replace Barrie on the PP with Nurse then that’s less minutes that your most effective LH Dman can play in a PK or shutdown situation. Makes a lot more sense to have Barrie play to his strengths so that Nurse can play to his. Instead of playing Russell/Kkkk/Keith more in PK/shutdown type minutes just so Nurse can play the PP, just so we can keep Bear so that he can play 16-18 minutes a night being sheltered on the 3rd pair. I really don’t see any situation where keeping Bear instead of Barrie is a real benefit to the team as you have to move around a whole bunch of pieces and build the rest of your defense to accommodate Bear who can’t play important minutes unless he’s playing with Nurse, and even then needs to be taken off that pairing late in games to protect leads.

See I think the exact same thing but about Barrie. You & I just have fundamentally different views of Barrie away from Nurse and Bear away from Nurse.

I think Bear can play very great in some third pairing minutes, lot better then Barrie (I know we disagree fundementally on this lol). We let Bouch take some of those PP mins and we let Barrie walk.

I dont think its reshuffling to suit Bear, but maximizing Bouchard imo.

 

[TheNumber4]

I think it was more of a numbers game with Bear, rather than losing patience with him. With so many other young D starting to push things, he was the easiest one to deal and get something back that fills another need.

I don't think it's any more complicated than that

Right a move made for roster composition which I noted. And probably a smart one at that. I’m just saying in a vacuum I think value wise we’ll lose this trade. But I’m a big fan of Bear, and while I like Foegeles game I think his lack of hands will limit his ceiling ultimately so our chances of hitting a home run are low.

 

[yukoner88]

Right a move made for roster composition which I noted. And probably a smart one at that. I’m just saying in a vacuum I think value wise we’ll lose this trade. But I’m a big fan of Bear, and while I like Foegeles game I think his lack of hands will limit his ceiling ultimately so our chances of hitting a home run are low.

I think Foegele's limited offense was recognized my most of us at the time of the trade. The gamble is that the guys coming up into the lineup over the next couple seasons will bring a more diverse/complete skill set the Bear will achieve (this is not meant as a shot a Bear, I was a big fan myself and was erring on the side of caution). That was over the fear of trading Bear for a draft pick though.

Foegele was brought in purely for the 3rd line role, and be a foot soldier who works hard as an energy guy which we were sorely lacking, and could still use a bit more if yet.

Foegele as arrived as advertised, and as long as his compete level remains where it is, it's a win win trade through n through

 

[nabob]

See I think the exact same thing but about Barrie. You & I just have fundamentally different views of Barrie away from Nurse and Bear away from Nurse.

I think Bear can play very great in some third pairing minutes, lot better then Barrie (I know we disagree fundementally on this lol). We let Bouch take some of those PP mins and we let Barrie walk.

I dont think its reshuffling to suit Bear, but maximizing Bouchard imo.

I don’t think Bear can play very great unless he’s playing with a Nurse/Slavin level partner.


I think it’s putting too much on Bouchard’s plate too early, not having your best option for the PP, and playing Nurse not to his strengths, just so you can have Bear get owned on the third pairing. I honestly don’t think there’s much difference defensively between Bear and Barrie. But Barrie possesses an entire toolbox of talent offensively that Bear doesn’t have.

But yeah I’ll leave it at at that, we disagree a lot about your idea that Bear is a very great defensive player if paired with someone like Kkkk or Russell.

 

[TheNumber4]

I think Foegele's limited offense was recognized my most of us at the time of the trade. The gamble is that the guys coming up into the lineup over the next couple seasons will bring a more diverse/complete skill set the Bear will achieve (this is not meant as a shot a Bear, I was a big fan myself and was erring on the side of caution). That was over the fear of trading Bear for a draft pick though.

Foegele was brought in purely for the 3rd line role, and be a foot soldier who works hard as an energy guy which we were sorely lacking, and could still use a bit more if yet.

Foegele as arrived as advertised, and as long as his compete level remains where it is, it's a win win trade through n through

I think it’s a win win too. Both teams had needs filled. But even in a win win there can be a value imbalance.