ESPN signs 7 year deal with the NHL

[OG6ix]

Yup thats what ESPN does they were dead set on destroying NBCSN, they went as far at the time it was noted during the deal they worked with Fox Sports to package the MLS deal from NBCSN. They got their kill shot with NHL. The money paid was well worth it killing off the 3rd TV Sports Channel history shows there must be only room for 2.

I believe the players really wanted ESPN to grow their platform and the NHL owners did as well. NBCSN just wasn't gaining any traction with casual viewers habits. ESPN is still the dominant. Fox sports 1 also has this issue at one point NBCSN was a head but I read on another forum that FS1 was getting more casual viewing habits by bringing on hosts like Bayless and cowherd.

 

[eddygee]

Not to mention that the rights to USMNT are tied to MLS through SUM, so essentially ESPN is forced into a package they don't care about just to get those 10 or so games a year that are a draw.

They are not packaged anymore. That was a common refrain from a certain crowd but upon closer examination those 10 or so US games that averaged anywhere from 300-500k between ESPN and ESPN2 weren't the meat of the deal. It's the the inventory of almost 400 MLS matches that ESPN carries. Those televised games averaged 250-300k on ESPN, However notably and importantly as MLS TV deal with ESPN expires ratings have jumped this season. ESPN is avg. around 370k and the network average across ABC/ESPN networks is well over 400k. I will say the one good thing ESPN has recently done for MLS and this started this year was putting regular season games on ABC.

It would wouldn't hurt MLS if ESPN promoted it more but its not really needed, just make more of the damn games accessible on FOX/ABC. This year shows if network partners regularly make games more accessible to the general public, interest and viewership rises. This was a league that up until a few yrs ago had a small handful 3 or so games available on OTA TV. As hockey fans we can all appreciate the need of having OTA games the 12-13 NBC gave us all those years. Imagine not having OTA games for almost 20 yrs then getting 3 or so a season spread out on Fox zero on ABC since the late 90s to finally getting double digit 12 OTA games this year. That's were MLS was, so folks really need to remember that when they go at soccer fans for having enthusiasm, its because so much progress was artificially deflated for years due to zero big MLS broadcast network coverage. I will admit some do go overboard and I cringe at some proclamations "Bigger than NBA or MLB in 5 yrs etc"

Edit: The more lucrative World Cups Rights were never tied to the old SUM/USSF media rights deal. Some people used to think they were.

 

[eddygee]

I believe the players really wanted ESPN to grow their platform and the NHL owners did as well. NBCSN just wasn't gaining any traction with casual viewers habits. ESPN is still the dominant. Fox sports 1 also has this issue at one point NBCSN was a head but I read on another forum that FS1 was getting more casual viewing habits by bringing on hosts like Bayless and cowherd.

Yes I would say that's right NBC largely did better on live sports viewership thru the calendar year but Fox Sports 1 has found a market for their morning and mid afternoon shows. Now its nothing to write home about but they're surviving off having daily shows like First Things First/Undisputed/Speak For Yourself/ and The Herd with Colin Cowherd getting 150-200k. Doesn't sound like much but that's more than enough to survive off especially considering how much more FS1 got for retrans fees than NBCSN got. It really was a shame for NBCSN they had more viewership but couldn't get shows like Fox Sports talk shows to ever take off the lack of daytime programming killed them. They had the Dan Patrick Show and ......

 

[JelloPuddyPops]

I've told you before the Sounders are big in Seattle they have as almost as many Twitter followers as the Mariners they're big in the Pacific NW. Unlike many MLS markets where people go it's only 20-25k lets seem them do it for 41 home games. Seattle is getting almost double that on averaging and are more than capable of selling out Century Link. Been on record before that I think the Kraken will do well but I don't get the need to find some sort of anecdotal evidence to minimize a very successful MLS market in the Pacific NW region just cause there's a new team in the market. The Sounders and Kraken aren't in contention its not basketball they are in different seasons largely and won't be seriously fighting for seasonal attention they'll both do well in the Sounders case continue to.

I just think you are letting your Canadian show a bit if I may poke at you a bit. Seattle is just a great sports town.

the bonded part is not true. The Sounders consistently draw 40ish-thousand, which is great, but if they could sell out every game they’d be doing it. But they can’t.

They have one or two “full stadium” games a year. Special games? Yeah, they can sell out. Every game? Nope.

 

[eddygee]

the bonded part is not true. The Sounders consistently draw 40ish-thousand, which is great, but if they could sell out every game they’d be doing it. But they can’t.

They have one or two “full stadium” games a year. Special games? Yeah, they can sell out. Every game? Nope.

What part that I said isn't true? I think you comprehended what I said wrong.
"MLS markets where people go it's only 20-25k lets seem them do it for 41 home games" "Seattle is getting almost double that on averaging and are more than capable of selling out Century Link".
The 20-25k is in between is the MLS average the years before COVID 21-22k Consistently drawing low 40ks is almost double = Fact

"and are more than capable of selling out Century Link"
Again what part of this is wrong, They ARE more than capable of selling out the joint, Capable definition means can do/achieve. You even said they'll do a few of those sell out games a year. There were seasons they've had 3-4 full capacity games IIRC. So we agreed on the few special games where they promote a "full game" What you did was add something I didn't say which would have been incorrect and then said it wasn't true. I NEVER said anything about selling out every game, lol not sure where you pulled that from, from my otherwise FACTUAL statement.

 

[OG6ix]

What part that I said isn't true? I think you comprehended what I said wrong.
"MLS markets where people go it's only 20-25k lets seem them do it for 41 home games" "Seattle is getting almost double that on averaging and are more than capable of selling out Century Link".
The 20-25k is in between is the MLS average the years before COVID 21-22k Consistently drawing low 40ks is almost double = Fact

"and are more than capable of selling out Century Link"
Again what part of this is wrong, They ARE more than capable of selling out the joint, Capable definition means can do/achieve. You even said they'll do a few of those sell out games a year. There were seasons they've had 3-4 full capacity games IIRC. So we agreed on the few special games where they promote a "full game" What you did was add something I didn't say which would have been incorrect and then said it wasn't true. I NEVER said anything about selling out every game, lol not sure where you pulled that from, from my otherwise FACTUAL statement.

We should keep in mind that MLS has far less home games than the NHL/NBA and their ticket prices are far more affordable.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

the bonded part is not true. The Sounders consistently draw 40ish-thousand, which is great, but if they could sell out every game they’d be doing it. But they can’t.

They have one or two “full stadium” games a year. Special games? Yeah, they can sell out. Every game? Nope.

I read somewhere their capacity is capped due to some agreement with local neighborhood to prevent traffic.

 

[eddygee]

We should keep in mind that MLS has far less home games than the NHL/NBA and their ticket prices are far more affordable.

Well yes and no and that was part of the point I was trying to make often folks will say yeah its 22k but its only for 20 home games max to gage true interest levels of a team. I was just pointing out that the argument can't get used with the Sounders because they are doubling up on it. Looks like avg MLS ticket price according to Ticket Master is between $45 and $50 Seattle is $46. I know some of the newer teams are very pricey LA, Austin, Atlanta, I know the Charlotte team coming next year will be the among the highest as David Tepper is selling season tickets and PSL's(never understood that) I believe St. Louis team will be doing the same in their new stadium. So not exactly cheap. Seems to be the new wave. Definitely not NHL avg price which outside of NFL is the priciest avg ticket but its not dirt cheap WNBA free ticket giveaway (actually was offered free WNBA season tickets lol), or XFL/USFL prices either.


"How much do MLS tickets cost? Tickets are priced by the team and fluctuate by game. According to Ticketmaster data, on average tickets cost between $45 and $50 dollars. Prices vary on secondary and resale marketplaces."

Here's average recent avg ticket prices for NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL according to a excerpt from the Seattle Times

"If we break out the ticket portion alone, the study showed NFL fans paying $103.22 per game, while NHL tickets were $77.71, NBA was $67.60 and MLB $34.63. Spread over an entire regular season, NHL fans lead the bunch in paying $3,186.11 on average for tickets to all 41 home games.Mar 2, 2020"
NHL CRAZY EXPENSIVE!

 

[OG6ix]

Adam Schefter strikes again

 

[BigT2002]

Soccer is definitely accessible and even if the MLS start paying the future Messi's of the world - there is still something that is against the sport. Americans don't like it - more than they don't like many other sports - including hockey. Whether it's the immigrants game, or it's too slow, not physical, not enough goals, weird clock rules - there are far more people that won't give it a chance than people who will. They will tune into the world cup finals because it's an event, or the Euros but that's the extent of what they will want.

The resounding issue with soccer from "die hard red blooded Americans" is that soccer is confusing to follow and the players appear to fabricate injuries in order to get stoppages in time. It is widely acknowledged as being either European or South American in terms of sports popularity. But it is still gaining popularity with increasing viewerships. Which, to your point, has much more to do with the fact that EPL matches tend to be on in the morning when their direct competitions are re-runs, infomercials and the news. The NHL ends up competing with the Big 3 sports in the US on an almost nightly basis.

What will be interesting is how ESPN handles hockey and if they proactively attempt to build interest in the sport. If the goal is to do what they did back in the day and relegate it to ESPN3 and ESPN+, while NCAA Football between TCU vs. Boise State gets ESPN on primetime....it is going to be a long contract in terms of watching games and seeing the sport grow.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

The resounding issue with soccer from "die hard red blooded Americans" is that soccer is confusing to follow and the players appear to fabricate injuries in order to get stoppages in time. It is widely acknowledged as being either European or South American in terms of sports popularity. But it is still gaining popularity with increasing viewerships. Which, to your point, has much more to do with the fact that EPL matches tend to be on in the morning when their direct competitions are re-runs, infomercials and the news. The NHL ends up competing with the Big 3 sports in the US on an almost nightly basis.

What will be interesting is how ESPN handles hockey and if they proactively attempt to build interest in the sport. If the goal is to do what they did back in the day and relegate it to ESPN3 and ESPN+, while NCAA Football between TCU vs. Boise State gets ESPN on primetime....it is going to be a long contract in terms of watching games and seeing the sport grow.

NBA players flop all the time. I don't see diving as the reason why sport isn't as popular here compared to other countries.

 

[jkrdevil]

NBA players flop all the time. I don't see diving as the reason why sport isn't as popular here compared to other countries.

Soccer isn’t popular here because the organization of the sport here collapsed during the depression, and not having breaks for commercials didn’t make it conducive to early television.

 

[Reaser]

NBA players flop all the time. I don't see diving as the reason why sport isn't as popular here compared to other countries.

Yup, those are just explanations.

Real reason is because U.S. didn't invent soccer and equally as important because the U.S. isn't the best at soccer.

If we invented soccer, were basically the only ones to play it for decades and won a lot of World Cup's by default, and with minor competition were say 15-time World Cup champions [think like Olympic basketball] then soccer would be massively popular.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Its also not a great sport to watch live IMO

Event he worst baseball game is a more enjoyable experience then a soccer game

 

[NextBigThing]

I always wonder how popular and how dominant the USA would be at soccer if our greatest athletes grew up playing. Imagine if athletes like Tom Brady, Tim Thomas, Larry Bird, etc. chose soccer instead of their respective sports. I’d bet America would be a consistent World Cup favorite and that the game would be huge here.

 

[OG6ix]

I always wonder how popular and how dominant the USA would be at soccer if our greatest athletes grew up playing. Imagine if athletes like Tom Brady, Tim Thomas, Larry Bird, etc. chose soccer instead of their respective sports. I’d bet America would be a consistent World Cup favorite and that the game would be huge here.

To be fair the Americans have been playing the game for decades so if that existed we should see it by now.

 

[eddygee]

Soccer isn’t popular here because the organization of the sport here collapsed during the depression, and not having breaks for commercials didn’t make it conducive to early television.

This right here is the most simplest explanation. The sports unlike the other 4 had to start other it lost its original golden age during the worlds biggest economic collapse the "Great Depression the ASL American Soccer League 1921-1933 had over 30 teams was prosperous and popular league among Americans at the time. There were team names like the Fall River Marksmen, Bethlehem Steel, the Boston Bears(sound familiar) the New Bedford Whalers. Whalers then when it disappeared in the early 30s soccer went 40 yrs almost two generations before the NASL came in the late 60s but had to fight the stigma of a sport that was once embraced by American culture that went missing for 40 yrs being the foreign sport with long harbored post wars stigma. NASL eventually failed largely to bad business practices in 1984 and it would be until another decade of no soccer that MLS came along and FINALLY fighting and winning against the perceptions and replanting the American soccer seed that the ASL started back in 1921.

So when folks say yeah yeah soccer always the next big then been hearing it for 40 yrs its really disingenuous, they judge soccer on the same level as other sports as if they all started roughly the same time and has been going and folks have just chosen not to like it. It takes a sport long to gain deep cultural footing is mainly just bad luck(ASL Great Depression) and NASL (Poor business practices). Culturally up until MLS the last 25 yrs it never stuck around along enough for it to be absorbed into American culture. You need to have a cpl generations reach for something to be ingrained. MLS is only 1 and half generations in. My dad passed his interest of hockey/baseball/football/basketball to me he was a Flyers and Devils fan he grew up in Trenton. I pass my love of sports to my son though admittedly he's more into soccer as a lot of youth are. Kids/teens like him have a soccer culture to partake in where there was little when I grew up I stumbled on the sport. They don't just go outside and play it they play FIFA social media. MLS has picked up where ASL/NASL left off the last 25 yrs.

 

[eddygee]

Its also not a great sport to watch live IMO

Event he worst baseball game is a more enjoyable experience then a soccer game

You are literally in a minority there. I have heard the opposite where people say I probably won't sit down and watch a game but going to a game is like a awesome concert its so loud and vibrant. I've heard that line so much. So you probably just don't like soccer at all which is ok. Just a odd very uncommon take.

 

[Spydey629]

They are not packaged anymore. That was a common refrain from a certain crowd but upon closer examination those 10 or so US games that averaged anywhere from 300-500k between ESPN and ESPN2 weren't the meat of the deal. It's the the inventory of almost 400 MLS matches that ESPN carries. Those televised games averaged 250-300k on ESPN, However notably and importantly as MLS TV deal with ESPN expires ratings have jumped this season. ESPN is avg. around 370k and the network average across ABC/ESPN networks is well over 400k. I will say the one good thing ESPN has recently done for MLS and this started this year was putting regular season games on ABC.

It would wouldn't hurt MLS if ESPN promoted it more but its not really needed, just make more of the damn games accessible on FOX/ABC. This year shows if network partners regularly make games more accessible to the general public, interest and viewership rises. This was a league that up until a few yrs ago had a small handful 3 or so games available on OTA TV. As hockey fans we can all appreciate the need of having OTA games the 12-13 NBC gave us all those years. Imagine not having OTA games for almost 20 yrs then getting 3 or so a season spread out on Fox zero on ABC since the late 90s to finally getting double digit 12 OTA games this year. That's were MLS was, so folks really need to remember that when they go at soccer fans for having enthusiasm, its because so much progress was artificially deflated for years due to zero big MLS broadcast network coverage. I will admit some do go overboard and I cringe at some proclamations "Bigger than NBA or MLB in 5 yrs etc"

Edit: The more lucrative World Cups Rights were never tied to the old SUM/USSF media rights deal. Some people used to think they were.

Wait... you mean like the only game being broadcast OTA in the States every year was just the All-Star Game?? Hmmmm......

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Its also not a great sport to watch live IMO

Event he worst baseball game is a more enjoyable experience then a soccer game

I call bullshit.

You have admitted previously that you don't even attend sporting events and have never been to a Hawks game.

 

[OG6ix]

You are literally in a minority there. I have heard the opposite where people say I probably won't sit down and watch a game but going to a game is like a awesome concert its so loud and vibrant. I've heard that line so much. So you probably just don't like soccer at all which is ok. Just a odd very uncommon take.

I took a couple of friends to a TFC game I had tickets from for work and they actually said the same thing. For a lot of people the pace and the mid-field game is not fun to watch - for others it's the lack of goals and/or contact.

To each their own.

 

[Jersey Fan 12]

The push for soccer programming, like much of programming today, has more to do with politics than it does with current dollars and sense.

Much like WNBA, and women's college sports, which are targeted to specific niche viewership, the push to soccer allows for claims of some arbitrary "inclusiveness" (regardless of whether people are watching).

 

[IU Hawks fan]

The push for soccer programming, like much of programming today, has more to do with politics than it does with current dollars and sense.

Much like WNBA, and women's college sports, which are targeted to specific niche viewership, the push to soccer allows for claims of some arbitrary "inclusiveness" (regardless of whether people are watching).

What are you on about?

Vast majority of their soccer rights are on ESPN+. They've consolidated several niche audiences (Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, MLS out of market, etc). They bought the rights because they know there's people who will pay to see these leagues.

 

[eddygee]

What are you on about?

Vast majority of their soccer rights are on ESPN+. They've consolidated several niche audiences (Bundesliga, La Liga, Serie A, MLS out of market, etc). They bought the rights because they know there's people who will pay to see these leagues.

Yeah ESPN isn't paying a league like La Liga a league with lower ratings than MLS $175m yr for 8yrs in a new deal to be inclusive. This isn't a WNBA title 9 type issue where you want to be looked at as being progressive (little P) on women's sports hence the latest commercial push to push those efforts. These are business moves.

 

[eddygee]

Wait... you mean like the only game being broadcast OTA in the States every year was just the All-Star Game?? Hmmmm......

Yes and it wasn't even the The All-Star game that has been on cable and will be this year. ABC in the late 90s early 2000s carried 1-2 regular season games and MLS Cup until it stopped in the mid 2000s. After that MLS had no regular season OTA presence for over a decade. In 2016 that changed when FOX ran two games concurrent with NFL late Sunday window. FOX has been airing about 4-5 games a yr since then and MLS Cup in odd years ABC doesn't have it. This year is the first year in its 25 yr history MLS will have double digit (12) OTA regular season broadcast (7) FOX (5) ABC.