Confirmed with Link: Erne and Vrana file for Arbitration

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I love the attitude some of you guys have, especially when you are wrong. Arbitration starts on Wednesday August 11th.

My bad. That's on me mixing up days. I truthfully thought it was the 11th today. I don't know why, but this was more my internal clock was f***ed than not actually knowing what's up.

 

[lilidk]

I don't think Vrana going to get signed before arbitration. We don't need his goals this season , better get something mid to late first for him.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Thanks for putting words in my mouth. What I said was, "he'll produce." To me, that high goals/60 shows a player that is ready for and deserves a larger role.

The exact same thing was regurgitated about Athanasiou when he was putting up elite P/60 production as a 2nd/3rd line tweener. Just give him more minutes, he's ready for a larger role, he will produce.

And what happened when he was given that opportunity? Nothing much.

Looking at Vrana's performance in Washington, he's produced a lot by beating up on lesser competition while the star-riddled first and second lines in Washington took on the tough matchups.

He can take on a larger role, but that doesn't mean that the results are going to be there. Some players are just better suited to take advantage of matchups.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

What more proof do you need? Mantha went one direction while Vrana, a first, Panik, and a second went the other direction. What else do you need to see as "proof" that Mantha was valued quite a bit more than any one piece in that return...whether that piece is Vrana, the first, the cap space. Mantha was deemed by Washington to be worth all of it.

uhhh what? I was arguing his point that Vranas numbers aren’t sustainable on this team, because they are

I didn’t once mention Mantha or his perceived worth to Washington

 

[RedWingzz]

If Vrana goes to arbitration, it makes it much less likely he will remain with the team long term. The Athletic's recent prediction that Vrana will be here for the 2025-26 I find unlikely.

Well if he does go to arbitration, the team will almost certainly choose the 1 year option in order to keep his negotiating rights for next season. That way, they can see how he plays this year, and if they like what they see, they can give him a long term extension next offseason. 2 years will take him to UFA status, so the 2 year option doesn't make any sense. Obviously, it would be best if both sides can avoid it altogether, and sign a nice 5 year extension, but I understand if Yzerman wants to see more before fully commiting.

I just hope he does remain with the team for a while. He's an exciting player to watch, and let's be honest, the team at the moment lacks excitement and skill. Eventually we need to go for it, and I think Vrana is young enough and good enough to be part of the longterm rise to respectability. Hopefully he wants to be here, and wants to commit.

 

[ThankGord]

The exact same thing was regurgitated about Athanasiou when he was putting up elite P/60 production as a 2nd/3rd line tweener. Just give him more minutes, he's ready for a larger role, he will produce.

And what happened when he was given that opportunity? Nothing much.

Looking at Vrana's performance in Washington, he's produced a lot by beating up on lesser competition while the star-riddled first and second lines in Washington took on the tough matchups.

He can take on a larger role, but that doesn't mean that the results are going to be there. Some players are just better suited to take advantage of matchups.

You made a lot of assumptions about what I think in order to rehash some old argument about AA that I was never a part of. AA and Vrana are different players in different positions with different careers. I see Vrana as a guy that was buried behind a strong forward core and still produced very well, so he deserves a chance to show he can play on a top line. I think he'll produce, you're allowed to think he wont, we don't know what will happen until it happens.

BTW when AA's ice time increased by a minute and half in 2018-19 his points also increased by 21.

 

[RedWingzz]

The exact same thing was regurgitated about Athanasiou when he was putting up elite P/60 production as a 2nd/3rd line tweener. Just give him more minutes, he's ready for a larger role, he will produce.

And what happened when he was given that opportunity? Nothing much.

Looking at Vrana's performance in Washington, he's produced a lot by beating up on lesser competition while the star-riddled first and second lines in Washington took on the tough matchups.

He can take on a larger role, but that doesn't mean that the results are going to be there. Some players are just better suited to take advantage of matchups.

Fair points, but Vrana does have the toolkit to put up big numbers. The guy can fly out there, he has unreal hands, and he can snipe. I think if he does get to play 18+ minutes per game, and top PP minutes, it only makes sense for his production to increase as well. My favorite players in the league are always the flashy skill players, so I've been following him for a while. He was one of my favorite players in the NHL before he joined our team, and I watched a lot of caps games because of him. I think if he plays first line minutes and PP minutes, 30+ goals and 70+ points is not out of the question.

Of course he will have to fully commit to fine tuning his 2-way game, and can't be taking shifts/periods/games off. This has been a knock on him so far in his career. He needs to play with energy and consistency.

 

[Konnan511]

 

[Elmo Oxygen]

while the star-riddled first and second lines in Washington took on the tough matchups.

Vrana played most of the last couple seasons with either Backstrom or Kuznetsov as his centers at even strength FWIW.

 

[jkutswings]

Well we have reached the first "elite goals per 60 in limited ice time will undoubtedly translate seamlessly with more time despite better competition" argument, as predicted.

Jakub, Andreas, what do you have to say for yourselves...

Vrana's done everything the exact same way that Athanasiou has. An electric set of skills that can be used to iso-produce against teams 3rd best defensive units. You think Vrana routinely will be able to excel at a high level when he doesn't have Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov, Oshie, Wilson taking all the difficult matchups off his plate? What happens this year when Vrana goes up against Boston and instead of drawing some combination of Charlie Coyle and Jake DeBrusk, he matches up against Bergeron, Marchand and Pastrnak?

I expect Vrana will have a better year than he's experienced in the past in total because of the increased minutes, but his elite rate/metrics take a significant step back from the levels he's enjoyed previously. He's going to be asked to be a lot more than a matchup nightmare this year; he's going to be asked to be a well rounded play driver. And if he's going to cash in next year, that's what he needs to demonstrate.

I agree that Vrana's production is not necessarily of the nature that is highly sustainable. What I don't understand is anybody saying that Mantha is a superior player, when he's every bit as inconsistent.

They're both talented question marks. I'm just happy to have the slightly younger one that came with an extra pick.

 

[Hen Kolland]

uhhh what? I was arguing his point that Vranas numbers aren’t sustainable on this team, because they are

I didn’t once mention Mantha or his perceived worth to Washington

Sorry for the confusion. I was assuming you were arguing "proof" over the trade valuation part because I think it's really the only thing that we can reasonably assess with any sort of evidence. Because while you accuse him of having no proof that Vrana's performance is unsustainable, you have just as little or possibly less proof that it is in fact sustainable. We've seen Vrana play his best season at 0.75 P/GP, 0.36 G/GP, 3.04 P/60, and 1.46 G/60...however you want to slice it, feel free.

In his 11 game sample, he was at 1.0 P/GP, 0.73 G/GP, 3.47 P/60, and 2.53 G/60. A significant increase in points, and nearly doubling his goal output metrics.

So I find it hard to believe that he can sustain this when on a worse team, going against tougher competition. If he does, you're talking about a player who ends up with 60 goals and 80+ points. His best season to date had him flirting with a 30 goal pace in a full year, so color me skeptical... I don't think we traded for an Alex Ovechkin/Auston Matthews level goal scorer

 

[Hen Kolland]

Vrana played most of the last couple seasons with either Backstrom or Kuznetsov as his centers at even strength FWIW.

Fair that he had one of them as his centers. I was misreading what I was looking at. It looks like he's spent a majority of his time with Kuznetsov, followed by playing with neither, followed by playing with Backstrom. At least at 5 on 5 over the past 3 seasons.

The overall point is going to remain unchanged. In Detroit, whichever line he is on, he is going to be looked at as the most dangerous offensive player on the ice. He is going to get the emphasis from other coaching staffs, they are going to try to isolate and shut him down, while the Red Wings are going to flood him with ice time and look to him to drive offense.

I'm not going to suggest his production will go down. I know very well that it will increase with ice time; but throwing ice time at someone who has never been THE guy because of the surrounding talent he's played with is a big ask.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

Fair that he had one of them as his centers. I was misreading what I was looking at. It looks like he's spent a majority of his time with Kuznetsov, followed by playing with neither, followed by playing with Backstrom. At least at 5 on 5 over the past 3 seasons.

The overall point is going to remain unchanged. In Detroit, whichever line he is on, he is going to be looked at as the most dangerous offensive player on the ice. He is going to get the emphasis from other coaching staffs, they are going to try to isolate and shut him down, while the Red Wings are going to flood him with ice time and look to him to drive offense.

I'm not going to suggest his production will go down. I know very well that it will increase with ice time; but throwing ice time at someone who has never been THE guy because of the surrounding talent he's played with is a big ask.

On this I agree. Opposition are very much going to try and suffocate him from moving the puck and creating offense

 

[Revenge of Gru]

He's over half a point per game in his career almost entirely at even strength playing about 14 minutes a game. If he continues to get first line minutes and power play time he'll produce.

Even strength goals per 60 minutes, Vrana is in elite company.

Oh I think he's a pretty good hockey player but he played sheltered minutes in Washington.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Now Hronek either 3 years $12,000,000 or 3 years $13,500,000 somewhere between those two numbers.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

You made a lot of assumptions about what I think in order to rehash some old argument about AA that I was never a part of. AA and Vrana are different players in different positions with different careers. I see Vrana as a guy that was buried behind a strong forward core and still produced very well, so he deserves a chance to show he can play on a top line. I think he'll produce, you're allowed to think he wont, we don't know what will happen until it happens.

BTW when AA's ice time increased by a minute and half in 2018-19 his points also increased by 21.

He wasn't buried. He was sheltered. Playing against 3 pairs and 3rd line competition. It remains to be seen if he can compete with top pairsnand top line competition.

 

[Henkka]

Think Hronek is gonna get Less than Chychrun (4.6M), less than Girard (5.0M), less than McAvoy (4.9M) and less than Sergachev (4.8M) for sure.

All of those are his draft-mates.

Has worse production than all those from last 1 or 2 seasons.

 

[Hoog]

I'm thinking Hronek gets a 4 year $18M deal. Still has a lot of upside, has veen playing a #1 D guy but really a 2A in my opinion. A very good young 2A once the pressure of leading the D is off him.

 

[Henkka]

4- years would get him straingt to UFA. I think he will get either 3-year or 5-year deal.

3-years 4.4M my prediction. And he is still RFA after that.

5-year deals could be over 5 million, because those will start eating UFA years.