Erik Karlsson's atrocious defending vs Hawks (3 examples)

[Agent Zub]

For all his hiccups, he'll have a game like today where he has 0 points but is constantly tilting the ice in one direction.

He had a dominant defensive performance tonight but that's not what this thread is about lol

 

[OrrNumber4]

Certain posters with thousands of posts pumping Due Doughty's tires and trashing EK whenever possible are best not to engage with.

Just sayin.

Both are great defensemen. IMO, Doughty is the modern incarnate of the surgical, cerebral, point-compiling defenseman (think Harvey/Lidstrom) and Karlsson is the modern incarnate of the puck-rushing, skilled, offense-generating defenseman (think Orr/Coffey).

 

[Kamina]

For all his hiccups, he'll have a game like today where he has 0 points but is constantly tilting the ice in one direction.

Classic Karlsson game. More of those and we'll have to bring back the Obligatory Karlsson Assist.

 

[fasterthanlight]

EK65 has been the sharks best player the last few games IMO

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

At even strength tonight against Montreal:

Sharks with Karlsson: 68.7% xGF
Sharks without Karlsson: 12.93% xGF

Lol

 

[Mattb124]

Karlsson gets more flack for his d than he deserves. He is great at standing up at the blue line and at 1 on 1 battles, but does tend to get lost on the cycle.

 

[SensFactor]

Karlsson was below avg defensively in Ottawa many nights. On some nights he resembled a pylon. I miss his offensive creativity and drive but he's not worth what he is being paid.

 

[Karl Prime]

It absolutely drives me crazy how some people think he has always been awful defensively.

13-14 and 17-18 were the only years between 11-12 and 16-17 where he was objectively bad defensively throughout a season (though he played amazing at the '14 Olympics with partner OEL, who is hardly a shutdown mastermind). Both those years came after major injuries - go figure. I've watched almost every EK65 game in his career, and as a Sens fan, Chris Phillips was my favourite D-man to watch for a long time, so I'm hardly an offensive fetishist. He can be up and down but blanket statements like "he's always been terrible without the puck" is just flat out wrong.

For those other prime seasons, he was average to good as a whole for the kind of high-risk offensive force that he was - and for stretches, he was real good - creating turnovers, defending the neutral zone well, creating transition plays, getting back to cover for turnovers, blocking shots (The reason he broke his foot in '17 was from a blocked shot, of which he had a ton of that year because Boucher asked him to do it.). Yeah, he's weak clearing the net and not great against the rush anymore with his pivoting issue, but he still has his strengths.

As for the notion that his decline is imminent and he'll never be the same - well, maybe he won't be the 14-17 EK that had to carry those average Sens teams playing 30+ mins a game most nights - but that doesn't mean he can't still be dominant in a slightly different way. Offensively he's still 1A-1B in the entire league with Burns IMO. Last season after he returned to Ottawa in early December he went on a two-way tear that was arguably better than anything he did in Ottawa (Dec 2-Jan 16 he had 28 pts in 20 gms and +16), and unfortunately injury derailed his season, otherwise he probably wouldn't have stopped dominating and maybe the playoffs would have turned out differently for the Sharks. But most only remember his slow start trying to get used to a new system and new teammates and a new city.

One last thing: over the years he's had many amazing defensive games - but they usually go hand in hand with his great offensive games because he's so good at transitioning play up ice from his own zone. A game where he has a goal and two assists with 6 SOG and a 70% corsi probably means he was getting it done in his own end, too.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Karlsson was below avg defensively in Ottawa many nights. On some nights he resembled a pylon. I miss his offensive creativity and drive but he's not worth what he is being paid.

He carried Ottawa.

 

[supsens]

It absolutely drives me crazy how some people think he has always been awful defensively.

13-14 and 17-18 were the only years between 11-12 and 16-17 where he was objectively bad defensively throughout a season (though he played amazing at the '14 Olympics with partner OEL, who is hardly a shutdown mastermind). Both those years came after major injuries - go figure. I've watched almost every EK65 game in his career, and as a Sens fan, Chris Phillips was my favourite D-man to watch for a long time, so I'm hardly an offensive fetishist. He can be up and down but blanket statements like "he's always been terrible without the puck" is just flat out wrong.

For those other prime seasons, he was average to good as a whole for the kind of high-risk offensive force that he was - and for stretches, he was real good - creating turnovers, defending the neutral zone well, creating transition plays, getting back to cover for turnovers, blocking shots (The reason he broke his foot in '17 was from a blocked shot, of which he had a ton of that year because Boucher asked him to do it.). Yeah, he's weak clearing the net and not great against the rush anymore with his pivoting issue, but he still has his strengths.

As for the notion that his decline is imminent and he'll never be the same - well, maybe he won't be the 14-17 EK that had to carry those average Sens teams playing 30+ mins a game most nights - but that doesn't mean he can't still be dominant in a slightly different way. Offensively he's still 1A-1B in the entire league with Burns IMO. Last season after he returned to Ottawa in early December he went on a two-way tear that was arguably better than anything he did in Ottawa (Dec 2-Jan 16 he had 28 pts in 20 gms and +16), and unfortunately injury derailed his season, otherwise he probably wouldn't have stopped dominating and maybe the playoffs would have turned out differently for the Sharks. But most only remember his slow start trying to get used to a new system and new teammates and a new city.

One last thing: over the years he's had many amazing defensive games - but they usually go hand in hand with his great offensive games because he's so good at transitioning play up ice from his own zone. A game where he has a goal and two assists with 6 SOG and a 70% corsi probably means he was getting it done in his own end, too.

He hasn’t always been awful but he has always had stretches of games and just random games where he makes the worst plays and looks like one of the worst defenders on the team. I know everyone has bad luck and bad stretches but this guy brings it to another level
Most super stars are meh when they are not playing great, this guy is putrid when he is off his game. Just hope it isn’t a game 7 when he starts throwing bombs. Risk vrs reward I guess.

 

[Bileur]

Both are great defensemen. IMO, Doughty is the modern incarnate of the surgical, cerebral, point-compiling defenseman (think Harvey/Lidstrom) and Karlsson is the modern incarnate of the puck-rushing, skilled, offense-generating defenseman (think Orr/Coffey).

I get that this is a stylistic comparison but I don’t see Doughty in the same class offensively at all.

He shouldn’t be in the same sentence as guys like Lidstrom and Harvey offensively.

 

[WJCJ]

It absolutely drives me crazy how some people think he has always been awful defensively.

13-14 and 17-18 were the only years between 11-12 and 16-17 where he was objectively bad defensively throughout a season (though he played amazing at the '14 Olympics with partner OEL, who is hardly a shutdown mastermind). Both those years came after major injuries - go figure. I've watched almost every EK65 game in his career, and as a Sens fan, Chris Phillips was my favourite D-man to watch for a long time, so I'm hardly an offensive fetishist. He can be up and down but blanket statements like "he's always been terrible without the puck" is just flat out wrong.

For those other prime seasons, he was average to good as a whole for the kind of high-risk offensive force that he was - and for stretches, he was real good - creating turnovers, defending the neutral zone well, creating transition plays, getting back to cover for turnovers, blocking shots (The reason he broke his foot in '17 was from a blocked shot, of which he had a ton of that year because Boucher asked him to do it.). Yeah, he's weak clearing the net and not great against the rush anymore with his pivoting issue, but he still has his strengths.

As for the notion that his decline is imminent and he'll never be the same - well, maybe he won't be the 14-17 EK that had to carry those average Sens teams playing 30+ mins a game most nights - but that doesn't mean he can't still be dominant in a slightly different way. Offensively he's still 1A-1B in the entire league with Burns IMO. Last season after he returned to Ottawa in early December he went on a two-way tear that was arguably better than anything he did in Ottawa (Dec 2-Jan 16 he had 28 pts in 20 gms and +16), and unfortunately injury derailed his season, otherwise he probably wouldn't have stopped dominating and maybe the playoffs would have turned out differently for the Sharks. But most only remember his slow start trying to get used to a new system and new teammates and a new city.

One last thing: over the years he's had many amazing defensive games - but they usually go hand in hand with his great offensive games because he's so good at transitioning play up ice from his own zone. A game where he has a goal and two assists with 6 SOG and a 70% corsi probably means he was getting it done in his own end, too.

I have always thought he was subpar defensively because he has almost always been subpar defensively. His first few years he was always turning the wrong way, I later learned that it was because he just had an extremely hard time turning in one direction. It took him quite a few years to overcome that. I don't think it was until after his achilles tendon injury that he managed to fix that and other parts of his game have never been quite the same after that.

He's still a fantastic player and any team would want him, but he is just not a defensive defenseman and that's fine. There are not many players who are going to give you what Karlsson gives you.

I have seem him have pretty good defensive games but even now at 100 tears old, someone like Zdeno Chara is still much better defensively than Karlsson ever was. The highest level Karlsson ever got to defensively in my eyes is that he was okay. He probably made it near the top half of all defensiveman at one point. At his best I thought he was completely average defensively. Combined with his offense that makes him a first ballot hall of famer.

He is like the opposite of Bob Gainey who was a 3rd liner offensively and the best defensively as a forward. Gainey is also a hall of famer.

 

[SensFactor]

He carried Ottawa.

Um no he didn't. I'm sure Stone, Turris, Hoffman, Anderson, etc.. Had a alot to do with it as well before we started to blow it up. Offensive dynamo, defensively avg at best. After his foot and ankle surgeries its gotten worse.

 

[Voight]

Reading hfboards, a lot people dont even think he is a hall of famer. I disagree, but Lundqvist hasnt been popular outside ranger fans.

Since when? I think even Isles and Philly fans will agree that he's a HHOF'er. Eventually fan bias/hatred will subside, for most people anyway.

 

[phillydownsouth]

He carried Ottawa.

even phaneuf could carry ottawa

 

[phillydownsouth]

Since when? I think even Isles and Philly fans will agree that he's a HHOF'er. Eventually fan bias/hatred will subside, for most people anyway.

yeah i've never heard one bad thing about hank. Classy- handsome feller that also happens to be really good at hockey.

 

[Agent Zub]

[

I have always thought he was subpar defensively because he has almost always been subpar defensively. His first few years he was always turning the wrong way, I later learned that it was because he just had an extremely hard time turning in one direction. It took him quite a few years to overcome that. I don't think it was until after his achilles tendon injury that he managed to fix that and other parts of his game have never been quite the same after that.

He's still a fantastic player and any team would want him, but he is just not a defensive defenseman and that's fine. There are not many players who are going to give you what Karlsson gives you.

I have seem him have pretty good defensive games but even now at 100 tears old, someone like Zdeno Chara is still much better defensively than Karlsson ever was. The highest level Karlsson ever got to defensively in my eyes is that he was okay. He probably made it near the top half of all defensiveman at one point. At his best I thought he was completely average defensively. Combined with his offense that makes him a first ballot hall of famer.

He is like the opposite of Bob Gainey who was a 3rd liner offensively and the best defensively as a forward. Gainey is also a hall of famer.

That's dumb man Karlsson playing at his absolute peak defensively is one of the best defensive players in the league. He'll break every play and launch an attack for 2 minutes of offensive zone time. And yes he's had huge valleys in his defensive play. Can be really bad, but at his best? Dominant. Almost unplayable.

Just watch last night's game lol. Wasn't even his best but if you think that's just okay defensive play than you just don't know how to identify great defensive play.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Erik Karlsson defends atrociously against <insert team name here>

 

[SensFactor]

[



That's dumb man Karlsson playing at his absolute peak defensively is one of the best in defensive players in the league. He'll break every play and launch an attack the for 2 minutes of offensive zone time. And yes he's had huge valleys in his defensive play. Can be really bad, but at his best? Dominant. Almost unplayable.

Just watch last night's game lol. Wasn't even his best but if you think that's just okay defensive play than you just don't know to identify great defensive play.

I think you need to stop drinking the Kool Aid. His defensive game was masked a lot by Methot babysitting him during the years we were more competitive. I'm not the only one that noticed his decline after his foot surgeries. On some nights he was flat out lazy getting back, getting the puck out or holding coverage. I'll be the first in line supporting his offensive skills, as I mentioned he is probably one of the best offensive dmen I've ever seen. That being said I'm sticking by my assessment.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Um no he didn't. I'm sure Stone, Turris, Hoffman, Anderson, etc.. Had a alot to do with it as well before we started to blow it up. Offensive dynamo, defensively avg at best. After his foot and ankle surgeries its gotten worse.

Carried them all the way to the ECF. They dont reach the playoffs that season without him

 

[Karl Prime]

Um no he didn't. I'm sure Stone, Turris, Hoffman, Anderson, etc.. Had a alot to do with it as well before we started to blow it up. Offensive dynamo, defensively avg at best. After his foot and ankle surgeries its gotten worse.

In 14-15/16-17 there was a dramatic difference between when Karlsson was on the ice and when he wasn't. The Sens got caved in when he wasn't on the ice those three years. He absolutely carried them.

 

[Voight]

yeah i've never heard one bad thing about hank. Classy- handsome feller that also happens to be really good at hockey.

He's also a super respectful guy who has never had beef with other players, never had any bad publicity and is a big charity guy. Just a likeable person who you can put ahead of his team when discussing him.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

Erik Karlsson defends atrociously against <insert team name here>

He sure looked atrocious on this play!

 

[IceNeophyte]

He sure looked atrocious on this play!

"Oh here's one good play by him when we were 5 on 4 after a BS major"

Congratulations. Hang a banner.

 

[Mafoofoo]

"Oh here's one good play by him when we were 5 on 4 after a BS major"

Congratulations. Hang a banner.

The posted play was in OT. After the major was over.

Dang didn’t know it affected y’all so bad that you can’t remember the game correctly.