Player Discussion Erik Karlsson breaks San Jose Sharks point streak record at 13

[topshelf15]

bobby orr played in an era where he was the only elite skater essentialy.. basically everyone were smokers, and you could score consistnely on a slapshot from outside the blueline.

You dont carb load??

 

[Agent Zub]

bobby orr played in an era where he was the only elite skater essentialy.. basically everyone were smokers, and you could score consistnely on a slapshot from outside the blueline.

This gets lost a lot. It's honestly pathetic watching some of the pre 90s hockey lol.

And Orr is still the greatest but most of the 3rd liners of that time wouldn't be able to make it in the AHL. Things are much more competitive now.

 

[NyQuil]

This gets lost a lot. It's honestly pathetic watching some of the pre 90s hockey lol.

And Orr is still the greatest but most of the 3rd liners of that time wouldn't be able to make in the AHL. Things are much more competitive now.

I don't like these cross-era comparisons.

A lot of the guys nowadays would shit their pants if they were out on the ice in the 1970s.

Early in the game, I got my elbow a little high on him. A little later, I was watching one of my pretty passes, looking back, and next thing I knew, I was on the ice. I’d had my head down, and he hit me pretty good.

Gordie Howe had let me know that he was still the man. He was standing over me, glaring down at me. A bunch of my teammates skated to my defense and there was a little scrum, but I didn’t want that. I told my guys, ‘It’s OK, I asked for that. I’ll take care of it myself.’ Later on, I had asked him about the hit, and in typical Gordie-fashion said, ‘It’s better to give than to receive.’

 

[Agent Zub]

I don't like these cross-era comparisons.

A lot of the guys nowadays would **** their pants if they were out on the ice in the 1970s.

Absolutely it was a lot tougher league but not in the sense of scoring.

It was a league filled with Boros that the truly elite players could exploit at will.

 

[NyQuil]

Absolutely it was a lot tougher league but not in the sense of scoring.

It was a league filled with Boros that the truly elite players could exploit at will.

I get what you're trying to say, and I do agree to some extent, in terms of the emphasis being on short shifts, skating and stronger defensive systems and play, but I'd say it's more "different" than "harder", "better" or "worse".

Here's another Gordie Howe quote for reference:

Wayne Connelly was one of the most talented goal scorers we had. One night he and I were sitting out an exhibition game against Detroit at the Met Center. Detroit was leading going in to the third period. Gordie Howe has the puck, and gets some room, and scores. Connelly turns to me and says, "Louie, you defensemen give Howe way too much room. If I had that much room, I'd score 50 goals."

”No sooner had he said that than Howe gets the puck again. Larry Hillman comes to check him and comes a little too close, and Howe passes the puck and gives Hillman the stick right under the throat. Play stops, a stretcher comes out, and they wheel Hillman off. I turn to Wayne and say, "That's why you don't get that much room - you never touch anybody."

Different sets of skills were emphasized in those days. Long shifts meant that players had to pace themselves out there - they would coast back, ready for the quick counter-attack.

The lack of instant replay and multiple camera angles meant that a lot of cheap stuff would go unpunished, requiring the players to police themselves.

The best team in the world, the Red Army, was dominated by the Philadelphia Flyers to the point where they left the ice and refused to play the 3rd period.

If it were that much easier, point totals would have been higher than they were in the 80s. The biggest difference might be the goalies and the goaltending equipment.

BTW: I recommend everyone read this thread - it's a long post, but it's amazing.

100 Players and coaches - Quotes on Gordie Howe

 

[aragorn]

bobby orr played in an era where he was the only elite skater essentialy.. basically everyone were smokers, and you could score consistnely on a slapshot from outside the blueline.

No, not everyone was a smoker but there were some & drinkers too. There were a lot of good fast skaters but he also played in an era where most of the defencmen were big tough players & not necessarily small fast skaters like we see today on defence. It was a different time & I don't think eras can or should be compared but there has never been a defencemen like Orr, he is without a doubt the best defencemen in the history of the NHL as his 8 Norris trophies suggest.

What about Lidstrom, he has won 7 Norris trophies, Bourque has 5, they were pretty good too. And it wasn't that easy to score back then or they would have had dozens of 10-9 games but it was hard hitting hockey. We should ask Zeke, I bet he has some fond memories of Orr & maybe even Doug Harvey hahaha ....

 

[Burrowsaurus]

I don't like these cross-era comparisons.

A lot of the guys nowadays would **** their pants if they were out on the ice in the 1970s.

most of the guys today can skate so much better than anyone back then I doubt they would ever be caught... elite athletes were simply not as present

 

[NyQuil]

most of the guys today can skate so much better than anyone back then I doubt they would ever be caught... elite athletes were simply not as present

They have to go to the net at some point.

That's when they get a stick in the face.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

No, not everyone was a smoker but there were some & drinkers too. There were a lot of good fast skaters but he also played in an era where most of the defencmen were big tough players & not necessarily small fast skaters like we see today on defence. It was a different time & I don't think eras can or should be compared but there has never been a defencemen like Orr, he is without a doubt the best defencemen in the history of the NHL as his 8 Norris trophies suggest.

What about Lidstrom, he has won 7 Norris trophies, Bourque has 5, they were pretty good too. And it wasn't that easy to score back then or they would have had dozens of 10-9 games but it was hard hitting hockey. We should ask Zeke, I bet he has some fond memories of Orr & maybe even Doug Harvey hahaha ....

I think he is the best d man in nhl history too concerning scoring and hardware. but I mean I think the athletes are always getting better and better... pretty much every current nhl would dominate back then... but how many back then would dominate now?

bobby orrs end to end goals are full of opposing players that can barely turn relatively to what they can do now.

 

[NyQuil]

I think he is the best d man in nhl history too concerning scoring and hardware. but I mean I think the athletes are always getting better and better... pretty much every current nhl would dominate back then... but how many back then would dominate now?

bobby orrs end to end goals are full of opposing players that can barely turn relatively to what they can do now.

They also had different equipment including different skates, different training techniques, different diets.

If you cloned Bobby Orr and had him develop in this era I'm fairly certain he would still be the most dominant defenceman in history.

Again, these cross-era comparisons are pointless.

It handicaps a player for something they have no control over.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

They also had different equipment including different skates, different training techniques, different diets.

If you cloned Bobby Orr and had him develop in this era I'm fairly certain he would still be the most dominant defenceman in history.

just too hard to tell. in terms of what he did though hes definitely the best d man in NHL history

 

[NyQuil]

in terms of what he did though hes definitely the best d man in NHL history

That's all we have to go on.

Performance relative to peers is really the best measure around.

Yes, you can have a bad crop of players that make a player look better, but it's pretty hard to extend that over an entire career.

 

[topshelf15]

Great players are great players no matter what era they played in

 

[Answer]

I don't like these cross-era comparisons.

A lot of the guys nowadays would **** their pants if they were out on the ice in the 1970s.

Actually a lot of the guys nowadays would be superstars if they were out on the ice in the 1970's, who are just average players right now

 

[NyQuil]

Actually a lot of the guys nowadays would be superstars if they were out on the ice in the 1970's, who are just average players right now

They wouldn't be out on the ice for long.

They would be on a stretcher being wheeled out to the parking lot.

 

[Answer]

They wouldn't be out on the ice for long.

They would be on a stretcher being wheeled out to the parking lot.

Hockey is still just at hard and tough, with more speed. Players just gooning it up back in the day doesn't make hockey any more tougher., than it is now. Anyway, no one would be out on the stretcher because they would be just circling around them

 

[NyQuil]

Hockey is still just at hard and tough, with more speed. Players just gooning it up back in the day doesn't make hockey any more tougher., than it is now.

It was a different mentality back then.

There were no instant replays so supplemental discipline had to be about as obvious as it got.

There was nothing wrong with playing with a concussion, or concussing someone.

Slashes to the hands and face were routine. These guys did not have face masks, so they were routinely cut.

I think guys like Johnny Gaudreau would not have lasted very long in that league, while a guy like Gordie Howe who went out of his way to injure everyone who ever took liberties with him set longevity records.

Don't get me wrong - I prefer the style of hockey played today, but I don't believe that everyone in the 70s was a terrible hockey player.

The biggest difference IMO is with the goalies and goalie equipment.

Anyway, no one would be out on the stretcher because they would be just circling around them

You can't skate indefinitely.

At some point the game stops, whether it's a face-off, or in front of the net.

 

[Karl Prime]

They wouldn't be out on the ice for long.

They would be on a stretcher being wheeled out to the parking lot.

Did Guy Lafleur not exist?

Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Malkin, Selanne, etc, would have had no problem playing in the 70s.

 

[NyQuil]

Did Guy Lafleur not exist?

Crosby, Ovechkin, McDavid, Malkin, Selanne, etc, would have had no problem playing in the 70s.

Sure, and Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Gordie Howe, Stan Mikita, Jean Beliveau would have no problem playing today.

What was required of the average player is different than what is required today.

 

[topshelf15]

Sure, and Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Gordie Howe, Stan Mikita, Jean Beliveau would have no problem playing today.

And tons more,the 70,s and 80,s had their studs as well

 

[Answer]

It was a different mentality back then. There were no instant replays so supplemental discipline had to be about as obvious as it got.

There was nothing wrong with playing with a concussion, or concussing someone.

I think guys like Johnny Gaudreau would not have lasted very long in that league, while a guy like Gordie Howe who went out of his way to injure everyone who ever took liberties with him set longevity records.

Don't get me wrong - I prefer the style of hockey played today, but I don't believe that everyone in the 70s was a terrible hockey player.

The biggest difference is with the goalies and goalie equipment.



You can't skate indefinitely. At some point the game stops, whether it's a face-off, or in front of the net.

How many star players who wouldn't get into rough stuff did Gordie Howe seriously injured? Why would he be taking extensive liberties on a player like Gaudreau? If Gretzky and co can survive, then I don't see why Mackinnons and MacDavids of the world can survive. No one take liberties on star player who don't play dirty or get too much into rough stuff.

 

[Karl Prime]

Sure, and Bobby Orr, Bobby Hull, Gordie Howe, Stan Mikita, Jean Beliveau would have no problem playing today.

What was required of the average player is different than what is required today.

Unquestionably.

 

[NyQuil]

How many star players who wouldn't get into rough tough did Gordie Howe seriously injured? Why would he be taking extensive liberties on a player like Gaudreau? If Gretzky and co can survive, then I don't see why Mackinnons and MacDavids of the world can survive. No one take liberties on star player who don't play dirty or get too much into rough tough.

Come on, you've heard of the Philly flu.

How about Valeri Kharlamov?

If the game could be won or lost, you'd better believe they'd start taking liberties.

Gretzky survived because he was actually very difficult to hit, and he had an enforcer around to help.

In the end, he eventually did end up getting hit (by Gary Suter), and it had a huge impact on his career.

 

[Answer]

Come on, you've heard of the Philly flu.

How about Valery Kharlamov?

If the game could be won or lost, you'd better believe they'd start taking liberties.

Yeah, no one ever taken liberties on Crosby. Players now are still as tough and can handle a brawl and getting run at. Nothing new to them, they will get up, shake it off and keep scoring goals, like Crosby is.

Players are not Ballet dancers now

 

[NyQuil]

Yeah, no one ever taken liberties on Crosby. Players now are still as tough and can handle a brawl and getting run at. Nothing new to them, they will get up, shake it off and keep scoring goals, like Crosby is.

Players are not Ballet dancers now

The difference is that a guy like Tom Wilson was the norm and celebrated for his style of play.

Now people want to run him out of the league.

He's the exception. Whole teams were comprised of Tom Wilsons in those days.

You're saying that your "magical time travel device" would put faster, more physically strong and better hockey players in the past to inevitably succeed but what I'm saying is that they'd be playing a much different game and not all of them would succeed.

How do you think the Sedins would have done if it only took Marchand to throw them off their game?