Erie Otters 2021-22 Season Thread
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That’s where the elite talent is lacking. Lockhart was supposed to be the guy (they invested a 3rd overall pick on him) but hasn’t developed. Now you add in a young defense/goalie tandem and it’s just that much harder. Of course the coaching issues really put them in the hole. Not just record wise but development wise. Their players were just not coached right for 2-3 years. We don’t know how to win close games…
it’s hard to break that type of habit. The more you lose, the harder it is. 4 straight years of this and it’s now the culture or identity of the team.
Hasn’t this just been the norm in Erie since 2017? They always have players injuried. Idk if that’s a size thing or a lack of physicality but they are always hurt. When they were winning games in the mid 2010s, I don’t remember many injuries, certainly not often they had 3/4 guys out at once. Erie has been hit with the long term injuries year after year (Fowler, Gilliard, Campbell) and on top of having 2/3 guys out per game. It’s rare they have 2-3 weeks straight of a full lineup. When you are already lacking elite talent, it doesn’t help when your depth is impacted by consistent injuries
And I hate to be a downer, but we would be lucky to get a win on the road with Flint.
My guess is they don't have tomorrow off, so hopefully they are able to draw up a game plan. I think once we will a game or two in a row, hopefully the confidence builds. One positive is we don't quit, but that's also the frustration is that they aren't getting rewarded for their work.
8 of 16 losses by 1 goal. (Another loss by 2 goals because of ENG late)
This team is so hard to watch. They just can’t find enough ways to win. Sure they competed today but they also went 0/5 on the PP. There’s just always something. We all remember in 2019-20 they had 11 extra time losses as well. So this isn’t new. Just a sad team to watch.
This team is so hard to watch. They just can’t find enough ways to win. Sure they competed today but they also went 0/5 on the PP. There’s just always something. We all remember in 2019-20 they had 11 extra time losses as well. So this isn’t new. Just a sad team to watch.
Not sure why they can’t beat flint and it’s embarrassing they haven’t at this point. Flint is 6-8-1 outside of Erie games. Erie is 6-9-1-1 outside of flint games. They are the same team. Due to dominating them in the preseason and having a bum coach, we weren’t prepared to play early in the year versus that team. Now the players are overthinking it and it’s in their heads, acting like Flint is a world beater. Not to mention their goalie standing on his head versus us (that’s the bigger demon to overcome). But imo flint is basically the same team as Erie just with a veteran goalie who has played very well against the Otters
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Exactly this. I feel like we beat Flint in the preseason and then afterwards we can't get a win. We just need to find a way to make it happen. They're about equal in terms of skill and hopefully we can get a win against them. I hate already chalking up the L for them Wednesday, but something has to change because Saturday Saginaw comes to town and we have to be ready.
They have flint, Saginaw, Sarnia up next. If they were ever going to get on a streak, it has to be now. I don’t expect them to win all those games but it would be nice to be 2-0 going into the Sarnia game to give themselves a chance at it. They’ve had a tougher schedule of late with LDN x2, Guelph x3, SOO x2 and Hamilton (all in the last 11, since Hartsburg was fired) These next 3 games are much more winnable
Perspective...
It is obvious we are improving every game.
Like BJ said in his initial interview this is going to be a process and isn't going to happen overnight and if each person can get just a little better each time then it will come around.
Curious...
Has the PP and PK improved or got worse in the 11 games since BJ took over?
One thing is for certain, the scoring is much more balanced, the kids are getting pretty even time on the ice, and they are playing for each other instead of for themselves. Those seem like huge wins since Hartsburg was let go. We could be running 2 lines the entire 3rd period still...
Has the PP and PK improved or got worse in the 11 games since BJ took over?
One thing is for certain, the scoring is much more balanced, the kids are getting pretty even time on the ice, and they are playing for each other instead of for themselves. Those seem like huge wins since Hartsburg was let go. We could be running 2 lines the entire 3rd period still...
I’d say both have improved. I feel like BJ had his hands tied under Hartsburg and I wonder if he felt like he couldn’t stand up to make changes. I like seeing Kyrou QB the PP unit. D’Amato looks to be on the back end as well. They’re better at their passes and crashing the net more than they did with Hartsburg. PK wise I do like to see them trying to make a SH chance here and there and dumping it quicker.
While I understand they’re getting better each game, I just want them to get on a winning streak and build confidence. I like seeing 3rd/4th line players getting some recognition and time to grow. As much as I like Hoff as a player, it’s relieving to see him on the bench after a shift, something we didn’t see under Hartsburg.
I like LaLonde and he really stood on his head this road trip. Quite possibly one of the best goalies we have had in a while. I would like Nicholls to get another chance in net. He’s had a hard time in net, but as someone who maybe thought they wouldn’t get their chance in the OHL I hope he develops into a solid backup. He’s young and just needs time. Not going to lie, I often forget LaLonde is a rookie as well. Bummer to have Campbell out, but hopefully we see him again late in the season.
While I think wins are necessary for long term success...
Right now we have kids emerging from a cancerous environment where growth, attitudes, etc was all impacted negatively.
I am 100% with you that a winning streak would do wonders, we need to crawl before we can walk and the fact that we are in MOST games now competitively, it is around the corner.
Dhockey16
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Kyrou might be might favorite player so far this year. I think he's been the team's best defenseman and he's smooth with the puck on the powerplay. A right handed shot puck moving D can be tough to find and Erie has it in Kyrou.
I agree about Lalonde. His save % isn't pretty but I don't think it's reflective of how he's played. The biggest thing is he doesn't lose his mind and fall apart after letting a goal in - we all know how important that is for a netminder.
Here ya go @Mata
11 games of BJ (see above quote for the 11 games under Hartsburg to compare)
Record: 3-7-0-1 (same as Hartsburg)
Rank: 19th in OHL in points/winning %
GF: 38 (3.45 per game, compared to 2.45 before)
GA: 50 (4.54 per game, compared to 3.45 before)
PP: 18.3% (ranked 13th)
PK: 80.3% (ranked 6th)
SHGA: 3 (0 since BJ took over)
PIM: 8.8 per game (least in league)
So overall their offense, PP, and discipline has improved. They are giving up more goals but part of that is competition imo. Chris had a soft schedule with FLT/SAG x8 overall and NIA/WSR/SAR x1 each. Meanwhile, BJ has faced LDN x2, SOO x2, GUE x3, HAM x 1, and WSR/FLT x1 each. Much tougher schedule. I think if the Otters played the way they have under BJ all year long, imo they have 2/3 more wins on their schedule.
Thanks for that!!!
While the record doesn't really show improvement I think it is kind of easy to point out, their overall production has increased.
Right now they are recovering from the toxic environment, but the stats indicate they are improving, like BJ said they should.
Inexperience is one of the key reasons I think they have dropped this many as games are usually littered with simple mistakes.
Their defense and goaltending, while young have been pleasant surprises and a flat offense seems to be starting to pick up steam.
One of the keys to turning our close games into wins will be limiting the opponents shots on goal which, for whatever reason seem to have increased under BJ and might be the one negative.
Shots per game for both us and opponents through the 11 games this season.
Hartsburg:
Otters SPG: 31
Opponents SPG: 29
BJ:
Otters SPG: 28
Opponent SPG: 35
Interesting we are getting less opportunities but score more. We also, unfortunately are giving up more shots leading to more scoring for the opposition. Will be interesting to compare the next 11 vs his first 11 (BJ).
Hartsburg:
Otters SPG: 31
Opponents SPG: 29
BJ:
Otters SPG: 28
Opponent SPG: 35
Interesting we are getting less opportunities but score more. We also, unfortunately are giving up more shots leading to more scoring for the opposition. Will be interesting to compare the next 11 vs his first 11 (BJ).
Good stuff here too. I didn’t have these numbers handy and helpful to see. I still think it points to competition though. LDN, Guelph, Hamilton, and SOO are all good to great teams this year.
This is why I am curious how we do this week with Flint, Saginaw, Sarnia. Much more manageable schedule than what the team has recently had
If BJ doesnt change things around, then ppl will be saying its not the coaching.
So then what could it be??
So then what could it be??
Not enough high end talent? Not enough development of talent?
The coaching the last 3-4 years only makes these issues worse because of the bad habits we now see, whether physical or mental. So it’s going to be hard to dig out of that without some time and patience.
It certainly doesn’t help that in the last 4 years, their import situation is this:
Patry
Poddubnyi
Cajka
Kulakov
Those are the import players that played here from their last 8 selections. Now I understand that Khusnutdinov was a risk to begin with and that COVID certianly didn’t help. I also understand that Kolosov signed and would have been here if not for a COVID canceled season. That said, Patry was limited and Cajka was here for 1 year before he chose not to return (while Brown wasn’t aware and passed on an import pick thinking he was back). Podd was solid but wasn’t a top end guy. They haven’t had an major impact import since Cernak. Trust me, that’s a big difference maker, especially when they lacked 2/3 round picks for a few years
These are missed opportunities by this team. I understand it’s not easy to get imports over here but other teams seem to have way more success with it. I mean picture this scenario: Khusnutdinov and Kolosov currently on the roster. Khusnutdinov would be a top 3 forward. Kolosov a top goalie in league. It’s probably safe to say they are a much better team with those guys present. At least 3/4 more wins, especially with better coaching. Again, keep in mind that half of their losses are by 1 goal.. this isn’t a team getting blown out nightly. So having difference makers on the ice would be the difference in a 1 goal game and clearly something they lack.
In the OHL draft, they don’t have Drysdale here which hurts. Lockhart not developing hurts even more. Picture a new scenario of this team having Will Cuylle (drafted 1 spot before Jamie in 2018) and Mason MacTavish (drafted 2 spots after Connor in 2019). Drysdale is gone because of how elite he was but also, COVID… If we play last season, then Drysdale is likely traded for someone in the 2004 class. Maybe someone like McDonnell-Barker is here as part of that trade. Again, we would probably be a much better team this year if we had Lockhart developed and either Drysdale or a player that we acquired for Drysdale.
It’s not the depth of this team that’s hurting them imo. It’s that they don’t have 1/2 guys that can take over a game or make a spectacular play to make others look better. I thought that Lockhart would become that, but he’s not there. Look at 2015-2016. The 5/6/7/8 forwards were Betz/Marchment and Lodnia/Pettit. Raddysh/Mak for 3/4 forwards as second year guys. That team won 50 games because Strome/DeBrincat (great coach too). It’s a trickle down effect. If Lockhart was a 1.5 PPG player and someone like Khusnutdinov (or any impact import) was on the roster, Erie would then have their 3/4/5 forwards be Cohen/Bressette/DAmato. You would feel much better about things. Comparatively, we now see Cohen, Bressette, DAmato as the 1/2/3 forwards. Those players are all solid but they would be much better if they were more properly fitted into a role they should have..
So long story short:
There has been some bad luck (Drysdale), some missed opportunities (import draft), and lack of development (Lockhart).
I’m not sure what they do to fix it this year. They can’t. But they are likely to get a top 4 pick in 2022, while also getting a top 12 import pick. That’s going to be their opportunity. They NEED to hit on both of those picks. If they do, and guys like Terrance develop, this can turn around quickly…….meaning a good to great team in 2023-24. Especially as role players like Bressette and Artichuk still develop and Lalonde looks promising in net.
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In 23/24 Cohen(02) will be out of league as too old and Bressette (03) will be OA.
Also, they are doing well this year with points, but as you said earlier in your post, they are not players that can drive a team.
They have had some bad luck but also do other teams have bad luck. Maybe the imports dont want to come because they dont see a top quality team??
I think the bottom line is that they have to hit home runs with 1st round high picks and ensure they can drive the bus. And other subsequent picks should be solid role players.
Also, cant waste picks. 02 draft only has Cohen, Morton and Sedore, 6th, 7th and 8th rounders respectively. I know Drysdale has moved on, but what about picks 2-6. Alexander (3rd), Carogioello (3rd), Ritchie (5th), Baldassarra (6th) and Maunder (6th). Its bad enough that they are not here, but even worse, they are not doing anything where they are playing. So lost picks and wrong picks. JMO
Also, they are doing well this year with points, but as you said earlier in your post, they are not players that can drive a team.
They have had some bad luck but also do other teams have bad luck. Maybe the imports dont want to come because they dont see a top quality team??
I think the bottom line is that they have to hit home runs with 1st round high picks and ensure they can drive the bus. And other subsequent picks should be solid role players.
Also, cant waste picks. 02 draft only has Cohen, Morton and Sedore, 6th, 7th and 8th rounders respectively. I know Drysdale has moved on, but what about picks 2-6. Alexander (3rd), Carogioello (3rd), Ritchie (5th), Baldassarra (6th) and Maunder (6th). Its bad enough that they are not here, but even worse, they are not doing anything where they are playing. So lost picks and wrong picks. JMO
My point for 2023-24 was related to 2021 and 2022 drafts/imports.
If you have:
Terrance (3rd year)
Artichuk (3rd year)
2022 top 5 pick (2nd year)
2022 top 12 import (likely 2003 born)
2023 import (replacing Kulakov)
Plus:
Lalonde (4th year)
Bressette (OA)
Sova (4th year)
Kyrou (OA)
Saganiuk (OA)
Alboim (3rd year)
Sauder (3rd year)
Ross (4th year)
I’m not saying it will or won’t be good. But I’m saying if they hit on their 2021-2022 picks, including imports, then it has a chance to be something. They will certianly have a better chance to hit on these picks since Terrance was a top 10 pick, Artichuk was their highest 2nd round pick since 2013, they are likely getting a top 4 pick on 2022, and have high import picks. You add in guys like Lalonde, Bressette, Saganiuk, and Ross - all of which have shown skill and potential - and maybe there is something there. All predicated on them hitting on their top picks - which also means hitting on the players in the draft that are most likely to be elite based on where they are drafted. Since they have more high picks coming, it gives them a better shot at it
Regarding imports - NB is a prime example of a team with 2 imports making an impact. It’s not an excuse. Even if you can’t get elite talent because your team stinks, you should still find someone to at least be a solid depth player. But it’s still not an excuse imo. There are plenty of import options and the teams that pick in the top 10 each year are rebuilding. They need to do a better job of getting these players. It’s on the management to sell it better.
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for your other points:
I think you could say to every team.. “they need to hit on 1st rounders.” I would wager that it’s extremely unlikely to be a successful team without at least 1/2 first round picks leading the way. Honestly, in most cases you probably need 2/3. The teams that don’t have that probably have a college commit they took in round 10 (who talent wise was a first rounder when drafted) or an import who are making a big difference. So that’s not a big insight to say Erie needs to hit on their 1st rounders. My point was that having a top 4 pick in 2022, maybe the first overall pick, will make things easier….
In terms of wasting picks. We’ve been over this before. They did “waste” the picks on those 2022 3rd rounders. However, the premise behind it was logical at the time: Erie didn’t have high picks upcoming and traded away their youth from the years before. In order to compensate they took the risk on college kids. If they showed up, they would have reaped the rewards. Instead, it hurt. That said, 3rd round picks are far from guaranteed to be anything… let alone a star player. I don’t think that is the reason for any lack of success right now. Rather, having only 1 import on the roster (despite having top import picks the last few years) and Lockhart not developing is a much bigger hole in their success or lack of success. Not to say that those two situations makes them a top team in the league but it does however make them closer to, if not, a .500 team. If they were 10-10-1-1 would anybody have any issue? Probably not…
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