nofriendsinhockey
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- Aug 31, 2018
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Too much new talent this year. Who do you guys think are on the bubble...when it comes to forwards?
Erie Otters 2019-20 Season Thread
- Thread starter EON
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Sheesh what a beatdown last night. Any standouts from the Otters from those who attended? Did Sproule and Sellan play as well as the box score indicates?
My best guess is that Mack, Gritz, Sellan, D'Amato, Cohen, Sedore, and Bressette are fighting for 4 or 5 spots.
My best guess is that Mack, Gritz, Sellan, D'Amato, Cohen, Sedore, and Bressette are fighting for 4 or 5 spots.
Sellan has stood out all camp and then again last night. He has just been all over the place. I would be shocked to see him gone. Don’t think he lights up the league with points but he’s definitely a great guy to have for depth and the PK. Plus still has good upside to be a higher point producer in the league
I think the bubble players are Mack, D’Amato, Gritz - in the order of likely to be gone to likely to stay. Gritz at least adds some value as a center. D’Amato is the youngest of the 3 and has had a solid camp.
It’s hard to say with Bressette. I do like his potential and you can tell that he could have been a higher pick if not for the injury. Good instincts and smarts. That said, he’s still undersized and 16 years old on a deep roster
Sedore/Cohen are both locks imo. Good upside there and at least one should pan out in the future. Unless Erie plans to trade one, they both need to be in the OHL this year in order to take that next step. I think Cohen has deceptive skill, to the point where he can be a top 6 forward in this league one day
Lockhart was allllll over the ice. His speed is as advertised. He also had big compete, creating turnovers while on the defensive side. I don’t want to be crazy with expectations but it would not shock me to see this kid put up 40-50 points this year, assuming Erie increases his workload as the year progresses
More difficult to analyze the defense the defense .. they weren’t challenged as much. Morton was definitely a good signing though
If no surprise trades are made at the forward group, then this is my guess on who makes it as of right now
Singer
Golod
Yetman
MacDougall
Sellan
Swankler
Fowler
D’Amato
Hoffmann
Sproule
Sedore
Cohen
Lockhart
Bressette
That puts them at 14 forwards with Bressette on the bubble to be sent down at some point. This list would leave Mack/Gritz off the roster.
Mack/Gritz have enough trade value for Erie to get some mid level to lower round pick compensation and I would hope they explore that and not just release these guys. Obviously trading someone like Singer would free up the roster space but as an OA he doesn’t have much value. Gritz/Mack will have less value as OAs next year. So imo, trade them now to maximize value when they aren’t going to make next year’s roster due to OA rule
I put D’Amato in over Gritz/Mack just because of his age. He has the ability to not impact next year’s roster (2001, not OA) if he returns as a depth player. He also could still improve with another year in the league. Gritz/Mack might have hit their ceiling or close to it. Bressette is an easy option to send down. If they like him enough, they will carry 13 forwards and move on from D’Amato or make a trade
Singer
Golod
Yetman
MacDougall
Sellan
Swankler
Fowler
D’Amato
Hoffmann
Sproule
Sedore
Cohen
Lockhart
Bressette
That puts them at 14 forwards with Bressette on the bubble to be sent down at some point. This list would leave Mack/Gritz off the roster.
Mack/Gritz have enough trade value for Erie to get some mid level to lower round pick compensation and I would hope they explore that and not just release these guys. Obviously trading someone like Singer would free up the roster space but as an OA he doesn’t have much value. Gritz/Mack will have less value as OAs next year. So imo, trade them now to maximize value when they aren’t going to make next year’s roster due to OA rule
I put D’Amato in over Gritz/Mack just because of his age. He has the ability to not impact next year’s roster (2001, not OA) if he returns as a depth player. He also could still improve with another year in the league. Gritz/Mack might have hit their ceiling or close to it. Bressette is an easy option to send down. If they like him enough, they will carry 13 forwards and move on from D’Amato or make a trade
Oh man, what a performance! 28 players and there are some studs on this squad!
Swankler and Lockhart are as advertised! Really impressed by Sproule last night! I think Murphy was reading what critics were writing and had a phenomenal game to keep his starting position alive, for now!
As for bubble, I think it just comes down to older players. If we want to make a serious run next year we are going to have to part ways with the likes of Mack, Gritz, and maybe MacDougall or Golod. I also like Singer on the block only because he puts up points for trade value, but doesn't have the coverage of some of our other skaters and is a our only '99 up front.
We shouldn't lack firepower up front as Fowler returns from injury along with the maturation of Lockhart and Swankler as the season progresses. I think that puts pressure on MacDougall and Golod to perform early or risk being shipped out.
Swankler and Lockhart are as advertised! Really impressed by Sproule last night! I think Murphy was reading what critics were writing and had a phenomenal game to keep his starting position alive, for now!
As for bubble, I think it just comes down to older players. If we want to make a serious run next year we are going to have to part ways with the likes of Mack, Gritz, and maybe MacDougall or Golod. I also like Singer on the block only because he puts up points for trade value, but doesn't have the coverage of some of our other skaters and is a our only '99 up front.
We shouldn't lack firepower up front as Fowler returns from injury along with the maturation of Lockhart and Swankler as the season progresses. I think that puts pressure on MacDougall and Golod to perform early or risk being shipped out.
I am also curious to see what our defense will look like. We should have Drysdale as the staple with Henry, Duff, and Martin providing the mentoring of younger players. To me that leaves Gillard and Golden as the odd men out paving the way for Morton and Kyrou to mature this season.
nelli27
Moderator
Not a fan of much of this. Mark was pretty much down the middle on most guys and even offered trade suggestions for random players
Obviously most of their roster could be traded. But why trade Sproule to save a spot for someone like Gritz/Mack/D’Amato? Those are the bottom 3 guys that are fighting for 1 spot. Yet Mark makes it seem like Cohen is fighting more for his spot over Gritz and that is just laughable. Could Gritz be on the roster? Certainly. But Cohen is more of a lock than Gritz is..
Assuming no surprising trades happen among our top guys, then why the heck would Golden be a lock?!? Let’s just start with his production/abilities. He’s a decent, depth defender. A nice 4/5 veteran to have. Anything more than that expected from him and your defense is probably not great and anything less than why waste a year of development for a young guy who could have that ice? That alone makes him a bubble. Let me then add that Golden would cost us yet another 3rd round pick (where the team is already thin with assets).
Mark hypes up the fact that Golden was NHL drafted.. he was not NHL signed though and that’s the key. Wearing a London Knights uniform was probably half the reason he was even drafted to begin with. And let’s not forget that they traded for him last year due to Beamish injury and having 3 rookies on defense. They needed depth, they needed a veteran.
Drysdale / Martin / Duff
Henry / Beamish / Morton
Those 6 are all making the team. Yes, a trade could happen. But again, why???? Why trade someone like Henry just to save a spot for Golden and lose a 3rd round pick as a result? Martin would have less value than even that but yet can be just as productive, if not more, than Golden. Makes no sense and would be awful asset management.
Gillard / Kischnick are the other guys. Have to think at least 1 of those 2 are making it because Erie needs to also keep 2019-20 in mind, so they want that 17/18 year old age group. That said, both should make it. Carry 8 to start and as the season progresses, make a trade of a 2000 .. dropping us down to 7 D with Kyrou as a call up option
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nelli27
Moderator
Looks like Christian Kyrou will be spending the season in Jr. B, the GOJHL to be more specific, with the Komoka Kings: Home Page | GOJHL Komoka Kings
Assuming Bressette goes down to a Tier II team or Major Midget, this gets Erie down to 15 F and 9 D. Might see a trade to clear up the defense soon but they probably won't cut/trade from the forwards until the very end, with Yetman/Golod participating in NHL rookie camps and Sedore possibly injured.
Assuming Bressette goes down to a Tier II team or Major Midget, this gets Erie down to 15 F and 9 D. Might see a trade to clear up the defense soon but they probably won't cut/trade from the forwards until the very end, with Yetman/Golod participating in NHL rookie camps and Sedore possibly injured.
Hearing rumors that Erie intends to keep Golden on their roster..
I personally believe it’s a terrible idea but for whatever reason the team thinks he’s a valuable piece
Though I think he adds leadership, he is not worth the loss of another draft pick and the taking away of ice time from other young guys. If we were to keep him, and keep the 3 2000 born guys.. Erie will lose 3/4 of their top 6 defenders for next season and that’s a recipe for disaster..
I personally believe it’s a terrible idea but for whatever reason the team thinks he’s a valuable piece
Though I think he adds leadership, he is not worth the loss of another draft pick and the taking away of ice time from other young guys. If we were to keep him, and keep the 3 2000 born guys.. Erie will lose 3/4 of their top 6 defenders for next season and that’s a recipe for disaster..
This is honestly a horrible decision unless they've got some nice trades lined up for at least one of the 2000 born dmen, if not two.
The only thing that makes sense to me here is that
1. Hartsburg loves Golden because of his skating ability. Hartsburg seems to be really preaching playing fast and he would fit into this style.
2. Beamish is being moved. Beamish and Golden are similar players and it doesn't make sense at all to keep both.
3. Henry is possibly being moved as well. Duff seems like the clear guy to keep of the 2000 born players. Henry has some penalty issues and is probably the odd man out of the 2000s (Duff/Golod/Yetman ahead of him imo). Someone might pay a pretty penny for a big bruising LD that is a decent puck mover. We saw what DJ King just went for.
They have to balance icing a competitive roster this season with freeing up space for Gillard/Kischnick/Morton to receive proper ice time and development.
I completely agree EON. But we all know Erie has problems with being overly loyal to players/families
They like Golden because of his leadership ability and good character. That’s great and all, but I don’t think he impacts the wins/losses at all. He does, however, impact future assets and future play time for the rest of the team
If it were me?
- Try to trade or release Golden
- Trade Henry (or Beamish if he can fetch more in a trade)
Duff - Drysdale
Martin - Beamish
Gillard - Kischnick
Morton
I would be satisfied with that lineup
Also should add that Kischnick and Drysdale are the only right shot defenders on the team (assuming Kyrou is sent down)
So with Kischnick being towards the bottom of the roster, does it even make sense to move him to save a spot for Golden?
Unless Erie plans on trading BOTH Beamish and Henry. Problem I have with that is the market. You might get solid value for one but are you going to do better than a 3rd round pick you would retain by moving on from Golden? Probably not. Henry is inconsistent and undisciplined and Beamish has injury concerns
I would hope they don’t screw this up..
So with Kischnick being towards the bottom of the roster, does it even make sense to move him to save a spot for Golden?
Unless Erie plans on trading BOTH Beamish and Henry. Problem I have with that is the market. You might get solid value for one but are you going to do better than a 3rd round pick you would retain by moving on from Golden? Probably not. Henry is inconsistent and undisciplined and Beamish has injury concerns
I would hope they don’t screw this up..
nelli27
Moderator
I would like to see them keep Kish. I feel what he may lack in skill he makes up with his motor. The kid is no quit I also like that he gets scrappy now and then to protect his team without the penalties that Henry incurs. Assuming they have to move someone I would prefer Golden to move, unfortunately, if not for the 3rd round draft pick they must give up alone. Henry can play reckless at times with his picking of fights (Mutter) in both preseason games, but if we are concerned about his lack of ice due to penalty then Hayden Folwer should also be in the discussion. To me he is either on or not and when he is not he takes bad penalties, in my opinion, due to a hot head. Everyone talking about Henry taking 2 penalties early in game 2 against the Bulldogs, Fowler had 3 and the last one came with 2:36 to play and cost us a shot at a tie. Keeping track, that is 7 penalties between the 2 in 2 games (4 Henry, 3 Fowler). One of Fowler's led to the go winning goal and the 2nd prevented a possible tie. There is no denying Fowler's upside on offense is HUGE, but at what cost? We will see as the season progresses how these 2 and their off ice time will haunt us.
I also don't think Singer fits in as the season progresses especially with guys who can fly up and down the ice (Drysdale and Beamish on Defense).
The difference with Henry/Fowler is that Fowler is younger and more talented.. he’s the most talented forward on the team
That doesn’t mean he should continue his ways, but it does mean that he’s too valuable right now. Henry is undisciplined and doesn’t have that superior talent. Combine that with being 1 of 3 defenders that are 2000 born. Someone has to be the odd man out there. It becomes a problem if Fowler makes it a habit. He doesn’t have a high amount of PIMs in the league. So for now, I’ll chalk it up to a guy that was eager to be back and as a result was too aggressive. The kid missed 40+ games last year and probably is, more than anyone on the team, dying to get things going
In terms of discipline though, that was something Knoblauch really stressed. The team was super disciplined with him around. I would say the team has been fine in that regard overall the last 2 years, but as they move towards a more talented roster that is expected to challenge a bit more, that will be tested now more than ever for Hartsburg
That doesn’t mean he should continue his ways, but it does mean that he’s too valuable right now. Henry is undisciplined and doesn’t have that superior talent. Combine that with being 1 of 3 defenders that are 2000 born. Someone has to be the odd man out there. It becomes a problem if Fowler makes it a habit. He doesn’t have a high amount of PIMs in the league. So for now, I’ll chalk it up to a guy that was eager to be back and as a result was too aggressive. The kid missed 40+ games last year and probably is, more than anyone on the team, dying to get things going
In terms of discipline though, that was something Knoblauch really stressed. The team was super disciplined with him around. I would say the team has been fine in that regard overall the last 2 years, but as they move towards a more talented roster that is expected to challenge a bit more, that will be tested now more than ever for Hartsburg
As for Singer .. I think he stays. He’s not going to have huge value in the open market
He also has scored 25+ goals in the league before and he adds some PP value.
Just because Singer isn’t that speed guy, doesn’t mean he’s useless. Not everyone can be the fast guy. He just needs to think quickly which as an experienced OA, he should do. Singer missed time last year from suspension and the death of his mom. He had a tough year. He’s capable of more and could be in line for a big OA leap in production. I could see him getting 25g and 50-60pts. That’s a higher ceiling than what his value would be.
Keep him. If he doesn’t show much early, move him down the roster or move on from him. But there is some upside. Also, with a likely bad injury for Sedore, the offense all the sudden has 14 forwards (Bressette being sent down eventually). If it’s Singer or Mack that have to stay, you already know my answer..
He also has scored 25+ goals in the league before and he adds some PP value.
Just because Singer isn’t that speed guy, doesn’t mean he’s useless. Not everyone can be the fast guy. He just needs to think quickly which as an experienced OA, he should do. Singer missed time last year from suspension and the death of his mom. He had a tough year. He’s capable of more and could be in line for a big OA leap in production. I could see him getting 25g and 50-60pts. That’s a higher ceiling than what his value would be.
Keep him. If he doesn’t show much early, move him down the roster or move on from him. But there is some upside. Also, with a likely bad injury for Sedore, the offense all the sudden has 14 forwards (Bressette being sent down eventually). If it’s Singer or Mack that have to stay, you already know my answer..
nelli27
Moderator
Thought this would be of interest:
https://thehockeywriters.com/erie-otters-chris-hartsburg-2019-2020/
https://thehockeywriters.com/erie-otters-chris-hartsburg-2019-2020/
Update:
Sedore injury not expected to be long term, worst case scenario avoided, per Mark Scheig
Sedore injury not expected to be long term, worst case scenario avoided, per Mark Scheig
nelli27
Moderator
Does anyone know if Drysdale will be in the lineup Friday night in London? I'm looking forward to seeing him play. Other notables?? Lockhart, Swankler, and your young goalie.
If I had to guess, he'd play Friday and sit Saturday, but I don't know for sure. Lockhart, Swankler, and Campbell (G) are definitely the most notable newcomers to look out for.
Campbell the biggest for be, just because I think his development is crucial(!) to Erie. They have not had this good of a goalie prospect (minus import draft) since, who?? Because I got nobody. Campbell could finally be that guy that we also have for 3 years. With his size, if he plays good this year, he will likely be nhl drafted and be the main guy for 2020-21 and 2021-22
Josh Disher was once good but was a late round pick that was a late bloomer. We have had higher goalie picks (Jake Lawr) but they struggled early and never panned out. Obviously have had some good Import goalies but that’s a bit different
Campbell was a late pick but not because of being a late bloomer. More just being hidden in the US and having the college option. This kid has gotten some USNDT call up time, has played great in US select tournaments, and has been invited to top level US goalie camps. He has the talent and potential.
He will definitely play in one of the weekend games and would love if you could give a report Nelli. Thought he looked pretty good in his preseason game last week and would love for him to roll that over to this week
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