GWT: EPL - Matchweek 12

hatterson

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Apr 12, 2010
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My biggest question with Chelsea after a few weeks was really if the losing would end up throwing a bomb into the middle of the team before their results could catch up with how they were actually playing.

The Spurs win (even if against 9 men), and drawing City may be a big turning point for them in that regard.
 

Evilo

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Mar 17, 2002
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Poch needs to sort out how Chelsea's midfield is organized. Caicedo's getting bypassed easily and looks like shit. I don't think he went fro one of the best DMs in the league to this scrambly mess within an year so I think it's a system's issue.
It is a system issue partly yes. Because Brighton's system made him look way better than he is.
 

Blender

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Dec 2, 2009
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Poch needs to sort out how Chelsea's midfield is organized. Caicedo's getting bypassed easily and looks like shit. I don't think he went fro one of the best DMs in the league to this scrambly mess within an year so I think it's a system's issue.
Right now it seems that Gallagher is covering the whole pitch, Caicedo drops into whatever area he isn't to defend, and Enzo looks lost off the ball. Enzo also isn't contributing enough in attack when he has flaws defensively.

Enzo: 0 assists, 0.11 xA/90, 0.5 shots on target/90, 85.4% pass completion, 649 completed passes, 3573 yards of progressive passes, 14 key passes, 4.32 shot creating actions per 90, 1331 yards of progressive carry distance, 25 progressive passes received, 22 tackles+interceptions, 8 clearances, 21 blocks, dispossessed 13 times.

Gallagher: 4 assists, 0.15 xA/90, 0.52 shots on target/90, 88.5% pass completion, 592 completed passes, 2002 yards of progressive passes, 19 key passes, 3.39 shot creating actions per 90, 1100 yards of progressive carry distance, 38 progressive passes received, 53 tackles+interceptions, 8 clearances, 14 blocks, dispossessed 9 times.

Gallagher has slightly less progressive pass distance as he plays high up the pitch, but almost all of his other stats are superior to Enzo both in passing and defensively. It seems to me that when Nkunku is back that Enzo should be dropped, Gallagher should drop a bit deeper, and Palmer should fold into the midfield with the attacking role.
 

KJS14

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Jun 13, 2013
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He looks like what you would expect Havertz to be.
Both players have only scored from penalties so far this season... one just happens to have taken 3 more penalties than the other. Havertz has been mostly fine for Arsenal, but you'd have to actually watch to know that.
 

JeffreyLFC

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Sep 29, 2017
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Both players have only scored from penalties so far this season... one just happens to have taken 3 more penalties than the other. Havertz has been mostly fine for Arsenal, but you'd have to actually watch to know that.
I do watch a lot of games. Havertz is mostly a passenger on a lethargic offensively team while Palmer is the prime creator and offensive driver on a lethargic offensively team. Situation is similar but Palmer has been a very bright spot for Chelsea unlike Havertz who is not able to create. The main offensive creator for Arsenal midfield has been Declan Rice...
 
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robertmac43

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The most creative player has been Odegaard. Sounds like he should be back post International break too.
 
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KJS14

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I do watch a lot of games. Havertz is mostly a passenger on a lethargic offensively team while Palmer is the prime creator and offensive driver on a lethargic offensively team. Situation is similar but Palmer has been a very bright spot for Chelsea unlike Havertz who is not able to create. The main offensive creator for Arsenal midfield has been Declan Rice...
Palmer is beginning to shine in a Chelsea team that has been pretty bad overall (look better lately). I'm not taking anything away from Palmer (he's been good) - just saying that he's not exactly competing with the likes of Saka, Martinelli, Jesus, and Odegaard to be the prime creator for his team.

Havertz hasn't been able to create much and does feel out of place at times in Arsenal's team. But he's also been very good offering an outlet with his runs or pressing to recover balls high up the pitch - something that every other player seems to get credit for on this board except Havertz. He's been pretty average overall, but people here continue to act like he was the worst signing of all time. Just like they did when we signed Ben White and he became the best RB in the league.
 
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LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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Chelsea - City is how I expect big games with such talent to score goals... 4 - 4... fun.

International break (again :eek: ) and when we come back, city - pool first match back. :thumbu:
Will KDB be back maybe?
Jeez-o... I thought december wasn't that long compared to a year or so.... but it is long. City missed him at first, but have seemed to understand somebody has to create something without him on the field. pitch. whatevah...

City say paqueta is a 'long term kdb replacement' I don't see him so great.... but... is he a possible kdb successor?
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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I don't even care what Havertz is doing with Arsenal, Palmer is significantly more impactful than Havertz was at Chelsea.
 
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LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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I do watch a lot of games. Havertz is mostly a passenger on a lethargic offensively team while Palmer is the prime creator and offensive driver on a lethargic offensively team. Situation is similar but Palmer has been a very bright spot for Chelsea unlike Havertz who is not able to create. The main offensive creator for Arsenal midfield has been Declan Rice...
Is this true? He's a very defensive minded mid.... or do I just want to remember all the miss attempts shots and passes...

I don't even care what Havertz I'd doing with Arsenal, Palmer is significantly more impactful than Havertz was at Chelsea.
I'd take Doku over Palmer.... but if they didn't get Doku I'd be happy with Palmer.
The guy has the nuggets and the skill enough to hang with the big boys and play his game... good on him :thumbu:
But I'd still take doku :dunno:
Even though City needs creators desperately. NOT dancing all day doing nothing grealish.
 

KJS14

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Is this true? He's a very defensive minded mid.... or do I just want to remember all the miss attempts shots and passes...
It's not true, unless there's a specific stat he's just pulling from a ~10 game sample size. Though Rice has been good getting forward for Arsenal so far this year. Odegaard is definitely the main creator in midfield, and (when healthy) Partey is more impactful driving the play forward too.
 
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LOGiK

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Nov 14, 2007
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It's not true, unless there's a specific stat he's just pulling from a ~10 game sample size. Though Rice has been good getting forward for Arsenal so far this year. Odegaard is definitely the main creator in midfield, and (when healthy) Partey is more impactful driving the play forward too.
Haha... that sounds more right..
Because I watch every Arsenal game and I can't say Rice lead anything offensively (apart from good defense leading to offense) ... that just didn't sound right haha...
 

KJS14

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Jun 13, 2013
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Haha... that sounds more right..
Because I watch every Arsenal game and I can't say Rice lead anything offensively (apart from good defense leading to offense) ... that just didn't sound right haha...
He's been playing in a more offensive role than you might expect, but certainly not the team's main creator.
 
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robertmac43

Forever 43!
Mar 31, 2015
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Rice has been excellent at progressing the ball both with his feet and by pass. I wouldn't say it's been overly creative though. It's not like he is the one pulling strings in the final third.
 
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Wee Baby Seamus

Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
Mar 15, 2011
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I saw the "White has become the best RB in the league" and thought "nah that's bait" but have now decided to take the bait.

You'd have a hard time persuading me that White is any more than the fourth best English RB in the league.

And, I'll add, I like Ben White and think he's a very good player whose adjustment to playing fullback has been surprisingly seamless.
 
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luiginb

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Aug 23, 2007
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I saw the "White has become the best RB in the league" and thought "nah that's bait" but have now decided to take the bait.

You'd have a hard time persuading me that White is any more than the fourth best English RB in the league.

And, I'll add, I like Ben White and think he's a very good player whose adjustment to playing fullback has been surprisingly seamless.
Ben White isn't even the best English RB in the Scottish League.
 

bluesfan94

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Jan 7, 2008
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I saw the "White has become the best RB in the league" and thought "nah that's bait" but have now decided to take the bait.

You'd have a hard time persuading me that White is any more than the fourth best English RB in the league.

And, I'll add, I like Ben White and think he's a very good player whose adjustment to playing fullback has been surprisingly seamless.
Nah, that's bait.

In all seriousness, I don't think there's anything drastically separating White from Walker or Trippier. I think James is definitely better the three games a season he plays, but I know which one I'd rather have on my team.
 

Wee Baby Seamus

Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
Mar 15, 2011
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Halifax/Toronto
Nah, that's bait.

In all seriousness, I don't think there's anything drastically separating White from Walker or Trippier. I think James is definitely better the three games a season he plays, but I know which one I'd rather have on my team.
I think there's basically zero argument for White over Trippier at this point in time. More of an argument with Walker, but again I still think there's definitely a gap. White and Trent can duke it out for the #4 spot, because I think the top three is pretty clear.

Three games a season? Now THAT'S bait.
 
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bluesfan94

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I think there's basically zero argument for White over Trippier at this point in time. More of an argument with Walker, but again I still think there's definitely a gap. White and Trent can duke it out for the #4 spot, because I think the top three is pretty clear.

Three games a season? Now THAT'S bait.
If you wanna play the game, White had more goals and more assists than James last year on a team with a better defensive record.
 

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