GWT: EPL - Matchweek 11

[Spring in Fialta]

If there was ever a side that wouldn’t have been able to break down a 9-man low block it was today’s Chelsea.

So true.

 

[Blender]

Actual Mauricio Pochettino quote: "Too many coaches wanted the VAR and then when it's against you and it's "No! That is a disgrace" you know, it's difficult. I'm not talking about Arteta"

 

[ItsFineImFine]

We are so shit, this team is not in any way finishing in the top 7/8. I didn't have high hopes coming into the season but I thought they'd at least challenge for a Europa spot and look better defensively. Would've lost this game had Spurs not gotten reds (Romero is a f***ing idiot).

They pass the ball like a hot potato with no composure, and kept getting beat on set-pieces to a team with 9 men. Enzo is not a mature player at all and needs some serious coaching to ever be good in this league. Caicedo looks worse than MacAllister and constantly loses the ball, James looks like he's aged 10 years since coming back, Jackson is brain-dead, Gallagher presses well without the ball but usually just makes side/back-passes with it, Colwill keeps getting played as a LB for some inexplicable reason, Sanchez's ability to constantly kick the ball out of touch or to an opponent is impressive, and the complete lack of composure with the ball by everyone except Palmer is pathetic.

 

[Blender]

Gallagher presses well without the ball but usually just makes side/back-passes with it,

Weird comment when he has some of the best passing stats on the team? 2nd in progressive and key passes.

 

[maclean]

Hopefully the hattrick will be a huge confidence boost for Jackson, he's been bottling chances all season.

Not if his attempt at a fourth was any indication

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Incredibly depressing.

Chelsea were shit. No point in making such tackles on Chelsea players when they have such poor end product. Romero and Udogie let the team down and should feel incredibly ashamed of themselves.

I'm happy with everybody else really. They did their absolute best. Showed good resolve. Especially Vicario.

The most depressing part is the injuries to Maddison and Van de Ven. The injury to Micky looked like it could be a very long one.

Spurs are only six points off sixth. And the next few games will be extremely ugly with all the injuries/suspensions. Which is why I think they will now struggle to qualify for the CL, but there's still plenty of time left I guess.

Yes, but I put a large bit of blame on Ange for not sitting Udogie at halftime. He was on a yellow and they were down to 10 men, get him OUTTA there. Not good game management.

All the cards were legit, no complaints about the result.

If there was no VAR, it would have been 2-1 Chelsea after 33 minutes, Romero wouldn't have been sent off and VDV and Maddison wouldn't have been injured because nothing would have been the same after the "second" Arsenal goal.

 

[maclean]

If there was no VAR, it would have been 2-1 Chelsea after 33 minutes, Romero wouldn't have been sent off and VDV and Maddison wouldn't have been injured because nothing would have been the same after the "second" Arsenal goal.

something something living in your heads

 

[bluesfan94]

Yes, but I put a large bit of blame on Ange for not sitting Udogie at halftime. He was on a yellow and they were down to 10 men, get him OUTTA there. Not good game management.

All the cards were legit, no complaints about the result.

If there was no VAR, it would have been 2-1 Chelsea after 33 minutes, Romero wouldn't have been sent off and VDV and Maddison wouldn't have been injured because nothing would have been the same after the "second" Arsenal goal.

Did they have a sub for Udogie at that point?

 

[HeHateMeFrisbee]

Did they have a sub for Udogie at that point?

No, Davies injured, so would have had to do what we ended up doing and dropping Hoijberg into a weird CB/CDM role (which I thought he actually did fairly well)

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Did they have a sub for Udogie at that point?

They had options, but not a direct like-for-like, true.

He showed trust in his 20-year old to play 70 minutes with 10 men while playing on a yellow. Most of the times Ange has trusted the team they have responded positively, but yesterday it didn't work.

 

[JoVel]

I only mind VAR when it takes a long time and they still can't consistently get calls right. I'm glad we have it in the BuLi

I think of it the same way I think of the offside challenge in the NHL. If I can't see it being offside at full speed, at that point I don't really care if it was by an insignificant margin. I agree that VAR is a good thing for fouls and penalties but for the offside, I'd rather not have it.

 

[King Makar19]

the great Anthony Taylor will screw Chelsea next week.

Saudi money is in

 

[hatterson]

Yes, but I put a large bit of blame on Ange for not sitting Udogie at halftime. He was on a yellow and they were down to 10 men, get him OUTTA there. Not good game management.

All the cards were legit, no complaints about the result.

If there was no VAR, it would have been 2-1 Chelsea after 33 minutes, Romero wouldn't have been sent off and VDV and Maddison wouldn't have been injured because nothing would have been the same after the "second" Arsenal goal.

With no VAR, that second Chelsea goal still doesn't count. That was was ruled out by the ref/linesman. The Sterling goal would have stood since it was VAR that ruled it out due to handball, but still would have been 1-1 at that point. IIRC the Sterling goal is the only one that VAR ruled out that was called a goal on the pitch.

The Son and Dier offsides were called on the pitch and I think all the other Chelsea goal ruleouts were called on the pitch as well. VAR took a long time to confirm several of the offsides, but I don't think it overturned anything related to them.

 

[cgf]

I think of it the same way I think of the offside challenge in the NHL. If I can't see it being offside at full speed, at that point I don't really care if it was by an insignificant margin. I agree that VAR is a good thing for fouls and penalties but for the offside, I'd rather not have it.

I'm open to arguments about making VAR more favorable to attackers when offsides is close, so am down to tweak the rules, but linesman have a tough job and miss too many offsides in real time for me to agree with getting rid of VAR for offsides completely.

Even if the EPL maybe isn't the best run organization and so might not have done the best job of implementing it...

 

[hatterson]

I'm open to arguments about making VAR more favorable to attackers when offsides is close, so am down to tweak the rules, but linesman have a tough job and miss too many offsides in real time for me to agree with getting rid of VAR for offsides completely.

Even if the EPL maybe isn't the best run organization and so might not have done the best job of implementing it...

I think they mentioned a stat on the broadcast yesterday that most PL linesmen are in the low to mid 90s in terms of offside decisions which is actually pretty good considering how razor thing some of the margins are and that they're trying to look across up to 75 yards at the same time they need to use peripheral vision to check when a ball is actually released from an attacker.

That's a solid number, but still means that in a regular game, there's going to be a couple decisions that the linesmen get wrong. Granted most of those will be very close where a player is only a few inches on or offside, but there's going to be some howlers in there too simply because the sport can be chaotic at times.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Can VAR call a dive on a play while reviewing for a foul on someone else , because it sure looked like Sterling dove on the build up to the Romero penality. Wouldn't that override the penalty?

 

[hatterson]

Can VAR call a dive on a play while reviewing for a foul on someone else , because it sure looked like Sterling dove on the build up to the Romero penality. Wouldn't that override the penalty?

No VAR wouldn't be able to check for that, or rather they can look at it, but the current VAR rules don't allow them to direct a review for it.

Diving is not a foul but rather just generic unsporting behavior and thus what Sterling did wouldn't constitute a foul in the buildup even if it counted as simulation.

Since it otherwise couldn't result in a penalty (for Spurs), a red card (since simulation is a yellow), or an offside, then it technically wouldn't matter if Sterling had done a 720 and acted like he got shot, VAR has no position to recommend a referee review.

As far as whether it was simulation or not, I think it would have been incredibly harsh to give that as a simulation yellow because it's not clear he's trying to deceive the ref, but rather just that he's off balance. He doesn't gesticulate like he's fouled, he doesn't look back at the ref, etc. I think what happened is he sort of assumed that Van De Ven was going to make contact with him and was going down in anticipation of that, but when Van de Ven missed, he was too off balance to get back to the ball.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Rather would have had VDV made contact and gotten the red rather than lose him for months.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

Also, even in such a hypothetical scenario, a red card offense is a red card offense even if it took place downstream from the play. Romero isn't magically off the hook from a leg breaker just because something happened earlier in the play.

 

[LOGiK]

Why would Ange insist on putting their d line so high up to the halfway line for when you have nine players!? That was the worst decision and just wasn't working..... seemed like a mad thing to do really... Nine players, push up???!?

Aside from that... hella fun game to watch, no City sleep-spell possession crap, they really went at it. My favorite kind of match that was.



add:
These two clubs have big squads...

 

[hatterson]

Also, even in such a hypothetical scenario, a red card offense is a red card offense even if it took place downstream from the play. Romero isn't magically off the hook from a leg breaker just because something happened earlier in the play.

I'd have to confirm the specifics, but I think in that case it would actually be a red card but no penalty since it technically would have been a deal ball at the time and thus violent conduct under misconduct instead of a foul.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Can't say I minded Spurs high line yesterday. They created some good chances due to it. And the remaining players were all cheered off the pitch despite the result. It would've gone much better if Micky didn't get injured though.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

I'd have to confirm the specifics, but I think in that case it would actually be a red card but no penalty since it technically would have been a deal ball at the time and thus violent conduct under misconduct instead of a foul.

This is correct, I believe.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Also, even in such a hypothetical scenario, a red card offense is a red card offense even if it took place downstream from the play. Romero isn't magically off the hook from a leg breaker just because something happened earlier in the play.

Yes case in point, the Pickford/Van Dijk red card tackle controversy was basically that. They reviewed the offside but they never reviewed the red card because Van Dijk was offside. VAR got it all wrong and apologised but the damage was done.

 

[hatterson]

Yes case in point, the Pickford/Van Dijk red card tackle controversy was basically that. They reviewed the offside but they never reviewed the red card because Van Dijk was offside. VAR got it all wrong and apologised but the damage was done.

Yea in that case VAR basically got distracted by the offside and forgot to think about if the act itself was bad. They were just looking at "is he offside and thus it would be a pen"