'Emelin extension could get done soon

[Monctonscout]

Except Emelin actually has skill whereas Gorges has almost none.

Emelin is big, strong, hits well, skates well, has a good first pass, good hockey sense... All things that gorges does not have

They both have their pluses and minuses, we need both. Not sure why people on here love to crap on another player propping up another.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

They both have their pluses and minuses, we need both. Not sure why people on here love to crap on another player propping up another.

The conversation shifted toward Gorges but my opinion of Gorges really has nothing to do with Emelin. I'm not crapping on Gorges to prop Emelin up. I don't even understand how crapping on Gorges would raise Emelin's status anyway, not that I'd even care about wasting my time doing that on the internet.

Also, I disagree that Gorges is needed. At 4M/year and in a top 4 role, I don't think he's that valuable. Of course, right now, it would be bad to lose him without a replacement. But that's not what I mean.

 

[Monctonscout]

The conversation shifted toward Gorges but my opinion of Gorges really has nothing to do with Emelin. I'm not crapping on Gorges to prop Emelin up. I don't even understand how crapping on Gorges would raise Emelin's status anyway, not that I'd even care about wasting my time doing that on the internet.

Also, I disagree that Gorges is needed. At 4M/year and in a top 4 role, I don't think he's that valuable. Of course, right now, it would be bad to lose him without a replacement. But that's not what I mean.

3.9 mil for a guy that plays around 20 minutes a night and on the top PK is not overpayment.

 

[Tyson]

3.9 mil for a guy that plays around 20 minutes a night and on the top PK is not overpayment.

Gorges is paid about right in today's market. He gives it 110% every shift. He carries his weight.

 

[Dominator13]

Gorges is paid about right in today's market. He gives it 110% every shift. He carries his weight.

Damn straight. But the problem is he's still the odd man out when you try to put the pieces together for our future core. Subban, Markov Emelin, Tinordi and Beaulieu will surely be there next season, no? Are we not better off with a more physical defensmen than Gorges?

 

[Drifting]

How did Bergevin fail in his contract with Subban? Subban had a Norris-winning season and is now seemingly ready to be re-signed. Yes, it'll cost us about 2M$ more per season, but chances are he'll get a longterm deal that'll keep him in a Habs jersey until he's in his 30s.

I didn't like the bridge deal either, but there's an upside if you look at the five-year plans with and without the bridge deal:

Had there been no bridge deal (the rumoured amount): 5 yrs x 5.5M$ = TOTAL without bridge: 27.5M$ until Subban is 29. That's if Bergevin would've been nice to PK in January.

But the amount we spend to keep 29-year-old Subban with the bridge deal + possible new contract: 2.875M$ x 2 = 5.75M$ (bridge) / 8M$ per season (generous new contract as of three more seasons) = 24M$ TOTAL with bridge + big contract: 29.75M$ until Subban is 29. The new contract will be longer, but I'm only counting up to the end of the term he would've had without the bridge deal - five years from January 2013.

Even if he's signed to an 8M$ contract now, there will only be a 2.25M$ difference TOTAL over five seasons, from January 2013 to the end of 2016/17 season. Plus by re-signing him after this bridge, we keep Subban until he's 33. Otherwise, with no bridge, Subban is an UFA at 29 -- imagine how much it would cost then.

Except that there is now the possibility that a 24 year old Norris trophy winner who used to only want to play for the Habs has now become disgruntled with MT and MB and may choose to go to arbitration, sign one year contracts and walk away as a UFA.

 

[Agnostic]

Except that there is now the possibility that a 24 year old Norris trophy winner who used to only want to play for the Habs has now become disgruntled with MT and MB and may choose to go to arbitration, sign one year contracts and walk away as a UFA.

Show me a defenseman that turns down $8M/yr to go to arbitration only to get less, and I'll show you a fan that doesn't understand the process.

 

[Draft]

Show me a defenseman that turns down $8M/yr to go to arbitration only to get less, and I'll show you a fan that doesn't understand the process.

Mhm, I hear that.

 

[DAChampion]

Show me a defenseman that turns down $8M/yr to go to arbitration only to get less, and I'll show you a fan that doesn't understand the process.

How do you know that Bergevin will offer 8 million a year?

 

[Agnostic]

How do you know that Bergevin will offer 8 million a year?

Read Lshap's post.

 

[bsl]

Damn straight. But the problem is he's still the odd man out when you try to put the pieces together for our future core. Subban, Markov Emelin, Tinordi and Beaulieu will surely be there next season, no? Are we not better off with a more physical defensmen than Gorges?

I am thinking of making a thread to discuss Habs identifying and attempting to correct major cup contender weaknesses by October 2014, in time for the first year of cup window, and I think Gorges is one of those weaknesses. Not a bad player at all, but not a D man you want on a contender the next 5 years, especially at his age now. And 3.9 mill to primarily block shots is not a good thing.

I think Gorges needs to be replaced by an under 30 big bruiser with decent skills and skating, at 1 million less. Another Tinordi basically, but with some experience. Will need to be a trade.

Emelin is fine and is only going to get better. Pay him, he's still young enough for 5 good years.

 

[bsl]

They both have their pluses and minuses, we need both. Not sure why people on here love to crap on another player propping up another.

Point is we can't afford both, and I vote Emelin.

 

[TT1]

Damn straight. But the problem is he's still the odd man out when you try to put the pieces together for our future core. Subban, Markov Emelin, Tinordi and Beaulieu will surely be there next season, no? Are we not better off with a more physical defensmen than Gorges?

replace gorges with a mean sob that can fight/play d/eat 20'ish minutes and we'd be set. the biggest problem we have is that we'll eventually need to find a replacement for markov. pmd's of that caliber arnt easy to come by, and theyre certainely not cheap

 

[ECWHSWI]

I am thinking of making a thread to discuss Habs identifying and attempting to correct major cup contender weaknesses by October 2014, in time for the first year of cup window, and I think Gorges is one of those weaknesses. Not a bad player at all, but not a D man you want on a contender the next 5 years, especially at his age now. And 3.9 mill to primarily block shots is not a good thing.

I think Gorges needs to be replaced by an under 30 big bruiser with decent skills and skating, at 1 million less. Another Tinordi basically, but with some experience. Will need to be a trade.

Emelin is fine and is only going to get better. Pay him, he's still young enough for 5 good years.

there's nothing to support that claim.

 

[bsl]

there's nothing to support that claim.

Fair enough. You may disagree, but I believe next year is the first year in Habs cup window. Assuming Bergy acts accordingly:

The Core, in descending importance, but all of them cup contender material:

Price
Subby
Chuckie
Max
Top RW for Pleks and package.

Gallagher
Eller
Markov

Prust
Emelin
Bournival
Tinordi
Beaulieu

13 excellent core players, at all positions.

Yes, provided we find a top RW, Habs enter their cup window in October 2014.

I stand by this.

 

[rockjngo]

There's a rumor that Emelin is very close to a 5 year worth $3.5 million per season. That will take him to 32 years old. I say pull the trigger its a bargain.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Fair enough. You may disagree, but I believe next year is the first year in Habs cup window. Assuming Bergy acts accordingly:

The Core, in descending importance, but all of them cup contender material:

Price
Subby
Chuckie
Max
Top RW for Pleks and package.

Gallagher
Eller
Markov

Prust
Emelin
Bournival
Tinordi
Beaulieu

13 excellent core players, at all positions.

Yes, provided we find a top RW, Habs enter their cup window in October 2014.

I stand by this.

Galchenuyk hasnt been a C in the NHL yet outside a few games here and there, it could take more than a few months to be good enough for top 6 at that particular position...

with the amounts of injuries he seems to get every season, Prust could very well be done (so to speak) in a year or two

Tinordi and Beaulieu are 20 and 21 years old D who can not yet handle bottom pairing minutes in the NHL, considering their age, it could take a few more years before they're part of "the core".

Oct 14 heh... no offense mate but you're dreaming, for it to work it requires best case scenario for every single situation (contract negos, trades, developpement, UFA signings)

and huh, just so you know,in the list of players you made, there's only ONE forward who has shown he can put up 60+ pts in a season...


and huh, what happen to your cup window if NO ONE offers a top RW for Plekanec ?

 

[bsl]

Galchenuyk hasnt been a C in the NHL yet outside a few games here and there, it could take more than a few months to be good enough for top 6 at that particular position...

with the amounts of injuries he seems to get every season, Prust could very well be done (so to speak) in a year or two

Tinordi and Beaulieu are 20 and 21 years old D who can not yet handle bottom pairing minutes in the NHL, considering their age, it could take a few more years before they're part of "the core".

Oct 14 heh... no offense mate but you're dreaming, for it to work it requires best case scenario for every single situation (contract negos, trades, developpement, UFA signings)

and huh, just so you know,in the list of players you made, there's only ONE forward who has shown he can put up 60+ pts in a season...


and huh, what happen to your cup window if NO ONE offers a top RW for Plekanec ?

You are correct. If no one offers a top young RW for Pleks in a package at deadline or this summer, then in my opinion Habs are ****ed. No cup window. That was the point of my posts. Thanks for agreeing.

 

[Blind Gardien]

There's a rumor that Emelin is very close to a 5 year worth $3.5 million per season. That will take him to 32 years old. I say pull the trigger its a bargain.

I don't think it's a "bargain", he hasn't played like a $3.5M a year defender for any sustained stretch yet in his career, but I do think it's a good gamble. He has been a good #5/6 guy with some issues who has flashed solid signs of being able to step up as a 2nd pairing guy.

I'd be ok with that gamble. It could end up being a bargain if he does decisively take that step to full-time 2nd pairing guy. Or a bit of a Desharnais-like thing if he falls back some. But contrary to Desharnais, a physical defenseman is always going to have a market anyway, where a 5'7" forward won't. So it's low risk.

It does seem like a lot of fans here really overrate Emelin, however.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

There's a rumor that Emelin is very close to a 5 year worth $3.5 million per season. That will take him to 32 years old. I say pull the trigger its a bargain.

That's a lot of money for a guy like Emelin. But then again it depends how they use him and if they finally give him some #2 pp time instead of giving it to Bouillon

 

[Agnostic]

I don't think it's a "bargain", he hasn't played like a $3.5M a year defender for any sustained stretch yet in his career, but I do think it's a good gamble. He has been a good #5/6 guy with some issues who has flashed solid signs of being able to step up as a 2nd pairing guy.

I'd be ok with that gamble. It could end up being a bargain if he does decisively take that step to full-time 2nd pairing guy. Or a bit of a Desharnais-like thing if he falls back some. But contrary to Desharnais, a physical defenseman is always going to have a market anyway, where a 5'7" forward won't. So it's low risk.

It does seem like a lot of fans here really overrate Emelin, however.

If Emelin gets 3.5M then it's Gorges that's been incredibly overrated.

 

[Tyson]

There's a rumor that Emelin is very close to a 5 year worth $3.5 million per season. That will take him to 32 years old. I say pull the trigger its a bargain.

Habs are much better with him in the line up

 

[Montreal Impact FC]

If Emelin gets 3.5M then it's Gorges that's been incredibly overrated.

I think he was overated and overpayed because we only signed him for a year afyer his knee injury... also at the time he was more flashy then he is now.

If we can sign him at this price it will be fine. Emelin doesnt look like a money first guy I think he is real happy here.

 

[yianik]

Nicholas Grossman as a 26-27 year old defensive, about to be UFA D-man got $3.5M and on the upper end Volchenkov got $4.5m on a long term deal. I don't think Emelin would be thought of as a defensive stalwart yet but he has a hitting willingness and ability which sets him apart from other physical defencemen ( no question to me opposing players keep an eye on him and that therefore affects their play ) and because of that he could get more. I think at $3M its a deal for us, $3.5M pretty fair value and anything above we are paying open market anticipating multiple teams bidding prices. He fills such a huge need and brings something special but I would not be happy if we pushed $4M to sign him. Want him signed for 4-5 years.

 

[kassian]

3.5 million is fair value. Gorges got 3.9m and, as the poster above stated, Volchenkov 4.5 so, the rumoured amount is just right for a hitting beast like Emelya. Not many defensemen have his combo of balance, power, hitting, defense and offensive awareness.

But I wish freaking MT put Emelin on 2nd PP wave for once, FFS. He has played like 10 seconds since he's been with the club. Cube, who's failed to produce, sees a lot of time... why when you can try Emelin, who's a better offensive player?! WHY!