News Article: Elliotte Friedman tidbits on Bruins weekend

[Latrappe]

Here is the thing - Hamilton DIDN'T have that much leverage. In the end he has to deal with the team that makes an offer sheet or the team that has his rights.

Hamilton had a TON of leverage against the Bruins. Our team had zero depth at D and Hamilton knew that an offer sheet was coming. there's a reason why he refused Bruins's offer and then make a counter proposal 2M per then what the Bruins were offering. Hamilton played the hard line ( as he was entitle to ) and the Bruins pulled the plug.

 

[InterimGM]

Hamilton had a TON of leverage against the Bruins. Our team had zero depth at D and Hamilton knew that an offer sheet was coming. there's a reason why he refused Bruins's offer and then make a counter proposal 2M per then what the Bruins were offering. Hamilton played the hard line ( as he was entitle to ) and the Bruins pulled the plug.

Again, the Bruins could have matched any offer sheet with a valuation of less than $36.5, and above that they'd have gotten TWO 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. They also could have bit the bullet for 1 year after matching and dealt a signed 23 year old top pairing defenseman.

The only leverage Hamilton had was for the amount and length of contract he wanted. He couldn't dictate where he ended up at all. If the Bruins traded him to Buffalo and he wanted Calgary, he was screwed if Buffalo matched. He was screwed if Boston matched because he isn't eligible for no trade protection.

Now the thing that's screwed is Boston's defense and transition game.

 

[Flannelman]

I keep circling back to if the Hurricanes would have had interest.

Would it have possible to do the 13th and Dougie for the 5th and Faulk?

I don't see the need or desire on the Canes front, but that might have been my dream scenario...

 

[Fenway]

It appears Dougie did not want to stay in Boston period. Maybe he didn't like playing for Julien or just didn't like the city

Sweeney thought he could package the picks and move up but nobody in the Top 12 bit. Obviously Keith Gretzky had a draft board far different that anybody else in the league had and only time will tell if he was correct.

Again, the Bruins could have matched any offer sheet with a valuation of less than $36.5, and above that they'd have gotten TWO 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. They also could have bit the bullet for 1 year after matching and dealt a signed 23 year old top pairing defenseman.

The only leverage Hamilton had was for the amount and length of contract he wanted. He couldn't dictate where he ended up at all. If the Bruins traded him to Buffalo and he wanted Calgary, he was screwed if Buffalo matched. He was screwed if Boston matched because he isn't eligible for no trade protection.

Now the thing that's screwed is Boston's defense and transition game.

 

[BigGoalBrad]

Surely I can be. Mark it, revisit it, and we'll see if I'm right. Lucic was consistently one of Boston's most productive players on the ice and constantly Boston's most physical. The last time Boston had a roster this soft was coincidentally immediately before Lucic's addition to the roster when Dave Lewis was running the show. When guys like Stan Chistov and Brad Boyes were forced to do the heavy lifting for the team (not a joke).

Boston now has what has to be one of the weakest winger pools in the NHL. Eriksson and Marchand are easily the Bruins best and they're best suited for second line roles on good days. Behind them are a slew of unproven at best hopefuls. Pastrnak, Connoly, Griffith, Ferlin, Florek. It's hard to see any of them stepping into a top line role anytime soon if ever, or even into a consistent top 6 role, and asking them to do so is setting everyone up for disappointment.

That's not even touching on the defensive issues now facing this team. An aging Chara, a Seidenberg who hasn't been in top form since 2011, an overpaid bottom pairing Dman in McQuaid, an unproven commodity in Joe Morrow, and Torey Krug.

Where is Boston strong? Up the middle and goalie. Other then testing the theory that center and tender are the most important positions what do people honestly see this roster accomplishing? Even our organizational strength is highly dependent on others. Krejci is a setup man, who's he going to set up this year? In my opinion this is year people start to realize he is more dependent on his wingers then vice versa. Bergeron will no doubt bring his Selke level defensive game once again but will also bring the consistent offensive production with it. Spooner slots in at 3rd line C, but barring injury isn't pushing one of the other two out and as such, will have fairly limited impact. I don't even know where Kelly slots in any more, most likely on Spooner's wing knowing Julien.

There'll be no "big or bad" this season, and that's the only identity the Bruins have ever been able to succeed with. They've lost by far (I can't stress that enough) their most physical player. Every other time they've ventured off of that beaten apth it has failed horribly.

It will be a long year for Rask because there will be little to no offense. Without more major changes I can easily see this team finishing well into the bottom half of the league for offensive production. It will be Thomas in 2006/2007 all over again. No matter how many times he stands on his head, the team in front of him will allow more quality opportunities. He'll be an easy whipping boy.

I'm painting an incredibly bleak picture I know and it's all just opinion (I don't claim to be psychic) , but to be fair this isn't our first go around. People here didn't believe trading Kessel would kill this team offensively, but it did and they didn't get it back until they went out an acquired Horton. This Lucic deal will be much the same. For some reason some Boston fans too readily dismiss the value of wingers and we really shouldn't. They were already down a top winger, now they're down two.

And you did ask.

Oh, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see LA win the cup. That's my bet anyway.

Boston drafted 2 wingers in the top half of the first round they value them.

They get a year of Erikkson+Marchand reasonably cheap along with Connolly Pasternak and Smith as the youngsters.

Those 5 guys will make up your top 4 wings and the size will be in the bottom 6. We have good centers.


Don't see much we need to do add Sekera or Seabrook a couple of new fourth liners and keep an eye on who's available at the deadline.


Hopefully CHara and Seidenberg bounce back.

 

[InterimGM]

It appears Dougie did not want to stay in Boston period. Maybe he didn't like playing for Julien or just didn't like the city

Sweeney thought he could package the picks and move up but nobody in the Top 12 bit. Obviously Keith Gretzky had a draft board far different that anybody else in the league had and only time will tell if he was correct.

But again, that's one (Sweeney's) side of the story. Did Dougie not want to stay in Boston, or when negotiations started, he didn't like what the team was saying about his value.

 

[LSCII]

But again, that's one (Sweeney's) side of the story. Did Dougie not want to stay in Boston, or when negotiations started, he didn't like what the team was saying about his value.

Doesn't matter. I heard Dougie used to double dip his chips and he'd bring a sixer of Natty lights and then proceed to drink all the Heineken whenever they had a team party, so he was clearly unliked in the room. He also used to clip his toenails on the charter after games and leave the clippings on the seat next to him. This was a clear cut case of addition by subtraction. In Don I Trust!!!

 

[Fenway]

But again, that's one (Sweeney's) side of the story. Did Dougie not want to stay in Boston, or when negotiations started, he didn't like what the team was saying about his value.

Dougie's agents seem fairly certain that an offer sheet is coming. (collusion?)

The Bruins are in no position to overpay anyone right now. Unlike years ago it isn't a case of the Bruins being cheap but they are looking to have a more balanced payroll.

The unknown is will the Bruins at least try to cobble together a roster that could make the playoffs or start over.

 

[TCL40]

But again, that's one (Sweeney's) side of the story. Did Dougie not want to stay in Boston, or when negotiations started, he didn't like what the team was saying about his value.

I have the feeling that something happened in the negotiations that made the Bruins opt for trade. It may be that Dougie didn't want to be here long term (and if you give him the money and contract he wants it means letting some go who may stay to make the cap work). I think cap management and asset management have been this team's biggest faults. Maybe this was a decision that was about the cap and a belief that they may not have Dougie after his big pay contract expires.

This team still needs to stop signing the bottom players to huge deals because you like them and they've paid their dues. The cap means you can't do that.

Either way if the Bruins decided to move on from Dougie they should have opened up the offers to more teams and I agree that the whole "don't trade in conference/division" rule is stupid. If you are looking to trade your stud young Dman you trade him to the team that gives you the most value in return. I think they could have gotten more for Dougie but chose not to and that's just poor decision making.

 

[InterimGM]

Dougie's agents seem fairly certain that an offer sheet is coming. (collusion?)

The Bruins are in no position to overpay anyone right now. Unlike years ago it isn't a case of the Bruins being cheap but they are looking to have a more balanced payroll.

The unknown is will the Bruins at least try to cobble together a roster that could make the playoffs or start over.

Can I ask you something? This isn't meant as a dig or anything.

How long has JP Barry been an agent?

How long has Don Sweeney been a GM?

Which one should I believe is going to have a better handle on what this player is going to be worth when he hits the market?

Will Sweeney get better at this? Let's hope so, he's a bright guy. But he's a bright guy who, IMO, is getting some bad advice right now.

I'm not sure why we're striving for a balanced payroll truthfully. Chicago seems to have done the opposite and they're easily the most successful team in the cap era. If anything, I think you have your high end talent that's difficult to replace, and you have your ELC's and veterans looking for a better fit on the cheap.

 

[Latrappe]

I have the feeling that something happened in the negotiations that made the Bruins opt for trade. It may be that Dougie didn't want to be here long term (and if you give him the money and contract he wants it means letting some go who may stay to make the cap work). I think cap management and asset management have been this team's biggest faults. Maybe this was a decision that was about the cap and a belief that they may not have Dougie after his big pay contract expires.

This team still needs to stop signing the bottom players to huge deals because you like them and they've paid their dues. The cap means you can't do that.

Either way if the Bruins decided to move on from Dougie they should have opened up the offers to more teams and I agree that the whole "don't trade in conference/division" rule is stupid. If you are looking to trade your stud young Dman you trade him to the team that gives you the most value in return. I think they could have gotten more for Dougie but chose not to and that's just poor decision making.

Again and for the 100 times: If you want Hamilton on your team and ready to pay what he's asking for, you're not going to give assets for him. You will offer sheet him and give the number of picks the CBA ask you to do so.. Why do you think there was no GM who offered assets for Hamilton? Because they knew that didn't have to do so. Whatever the number of team; it's the same situation...

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

It appears Dougie did not want to stay in Boston period. Maybe he didn't like playing for Julien or just didn't like the city

Sweeney thought he could package the picks and move up but nobody in the Top 12 bit. Obviously Keith Gretzky had a draft board far different that anybody else in the league had and only time will tell if he was correct.

what exactly are you basing this on?

 

[KnightofBoston]

Again, the Bruins could have matched any offer sheet with a valuation of less than $36.5, and above that they'd have gotten TWO 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. They also could have bit the bullet for 1 year after matching and dealt a signed 23 year old top pairing defenseman.

The only leverage Hamilton had was for the amount and length of contract he wanted. He couldn't dictate where he ended up at all. If the Bruins traded him to Buffalo and he wanted Calgary, he was screwed if Buffalo matched. He was screwed if Boston matched because he isn't eligible for no trade protection.

Now the thing that's screwed is Boston's defense and transition game.

Precisely. That's what a shrewd GM that doesn't panic would have done. You sign him and then control exactly where he goes and exactly how much you get for him. Opens your options so much more, meanwhile he panicked and got rid of him only to still have Kelly, smith, Seidenberg on the team and now a McQuaid he should have replaced with miller and let someone else pay (and I love Mcquaid i do)

 

[Ice Nine]

Surely I can be. Mark it, revisit it, and we'll see if I'm right. Lucic was consistently one of Boston's most productive players on the ice and constantly Boston's most physical. The last time Boston had a roster this soft was coincidentally immediately before Lucic's addition to the roster when Dave Lewis was running the show. When guys like Stan Chistov and Brad Boyes were forced to do the heavy lifting for the team (not a joke).

Boston now has what has to be one of the weakest winger pools in the NHL. Eriksson and Marchand are easily the Bruins best and they're best suited for second line roles on good days. Behind them are a slew of unproven at best hopefuls. Pastrnak, Connoly, Griffith, Ferlin, Florek. It's hard to see any of them stepping into a top line role anytime soon if ever, or even into a consistent top 6 role, and asking them to do so is setting everyone up for disappointment.

That's not even touching on the defensive issues now facing this team. An aging Chara, a Seidenberg who hasn't been in top form since 2011, an overpaid bottom pairing Dman in McQuaid, an unproven commodity in Joe Morrow, and Torey Krug.

Where is Boston strong? Up the middle and goalie. Other then testing the theory that center and tender are the most important positions what do people honestly see this roster accomplishing? Even our organizational strength is highly dependent on others. Krejci is a setup man, who's he going to set up this year? In my opinion this is year people start to realize he is more dependent on his wingers then vice versa. Bergeron will no doubt bring his Selke level defensive game once again but will also bring the consistent offensive production with it. Spooner slots in at 3rd line C, but barring injury isn't pushing one of the other two out and as such, will have fairly limited impact. I don't even know where Kelly slots in any more, most likely on Spooner's wing knowing Julien.

There'll be no "big or bad" this season, and that's the only identity the Bruins have ever been able to succeed with. They've lost by far (I can't stress that enough) their most physical player. Every other time they've ventured off of that beaten apth it has failed horribly.

It will be a long year for Rask because there will be little to no offense. Without more major changes I can easily see this team finishing well into the bottom half of the league for offensive production. It will be Thomas in 2006/2007 all over again. No matter how many times he stands on his head, the team in front of him will allow more quality opportunities. He'll be an easy whipping boy.

I'm painting an incredibly bleak picture I know and it's all just opinion (I don't claim to be psychic) , but to be fair this isn't our first go around. People here didn't believe trading Kessel would kill this team offensively, but it did and they didn't get it back until they went out an acquired Horton. This Lucic deal will be much the same. For some reason some Boston fans too readily dismiss the value of wingers and we really shouldn't. They were already down a top winger, now they're down two.

And you did ask.

Oh, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see LA win the cup. That's my bet anyway.

Solid, Rational, and realistic.

 

[LouJersey]

Or could it have been that they drastically limited their market by deciding not to deal him in the East, and having at least some GMs not even be aware Hamilton was moving.

Add to that they were likely reactively taking offers on Hamilton rather than probing for certain players they wanted and building packages based off of Hamilton being the center piece.

Yeah, there's a reason Hamilton fell in the draft, there's also a reason the Bruins are universally getting killed for this return. Calgary just happened to be the beneficiary of an inexperienced GM and an executive group who are likely in over their heads.

Or how about maybe, hypothetically they had a deal worked out for Dougie for#3, and told Dougie this, then they had Zona pull out so they went with door #2?

 

[LouJersey]

Again, the Bruins could have matched any offer sheet with a valuation of less than $36.5, and above that they'd have gotten TWO 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. They also could have bit the bullet for 1 year after matching and dealt a signed 23 year old top pairing defenseman.

The only leverage Hamilton had was for the amount and length of contract he wanted. He couldn't dictate where he ended up at all. If the Bruins traded him to Buffalo and he wanted Calgary, he was screwed if Buffalo matched. He was screwed if Boston matched because he isn't eligible for no trade protection.

Now the thing that's screwed is Boston's defense and transition game.

Maybe the liked the 15th pick in 2015 and two '15seconds over the 201 and 2017 drafts ? Also, maybe they have some plans for Weds? Maybe Dougie had no intention signing with the Bruins?

 

[Latrappe]

Again, the Bruins could have matched any offer sheet with a valuation of less than $36.5, and above that they'd have gotten TWO 1sts, a 2nd, and a 3rd. They also could have bit the bullet for 1 year after matching and dealt a signed 23 year old top pairing defenseman.

The only leverage Hamilton had was for the amount and length of contract he wanted. He couldn't dictate where he ended up at all. If the Bruins traded him to Buffalo and he wanted Calgary, he was screwed if Buffalo matched. He was screwed if Boston matched because he isn't eligible for no trade protection.

Now the thing that's screwed is Boston's defense and transition game.

There's a lot of things that I don't know regarding the draft. Maybe this year drat had more potential then the next one. I have to defer the question to Kirk or Dom, here.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Maybe the liked the 15th pick in 2015 and two '15seconds over the 201 and 2017 drafts ? Also, maybe they have some plans for Weds? Maybe Dougie had no intention signing with the Bruins?

the bolded is kind of a slippery slope. from there you can come up with any sort of hypothetical to justify this trade.

So far most reliable reporters (corroborated by Sweeney's own words) have the Bruins making him one offer, Dougie's camp made one counter-offer, and the Bruins moved on after that.

No attempt to negotiate, no counter-offer, nothing. And Sweeney was specifically asked if Dougie asked out and emphatically said "no".

So honestly I wonder if the Bruins even knew if Dougie wanted to stay long-term. Seems to me they saw his demands and assumed that he didn't want to be there long-term, but there is no indication that he really felt that way or said told them that was the case.

 

[Ice Nine]

the bolded is kind of a slippery slope. from there you can come up with any sort of hypothetical to justify this trade.

So far most reliable reporters (corroborated by Sweeney's own words) have the Bruins making him one offer, Dougie's camp made one counter-offer, and the Bruins moved on after that.

No attempt to negotiate, no counter-offer, nothing. And Sweeney was specifically asked if Dougie asked out and emphatically said "no".

So honestly I wonder if the Bruins even knew if Dougie wanted to stay long-term. Seems to me they saw his demands and assumed that he didn't want to be there long-term, but there is no indication that he really felt that way or said told them that was the case.

Agreed. Isn't the whole point of negotiating is you start with an inflated number, knowing you'll work it down to a compromise?

One counter and the B's deal our franchise D.

This trade will haunt us like the Seguin trade, except possibly worse than that, because we at least got a roster ready player in Eriksson in that deal.

 

[Latrappe]

the bolded is kind of a slippery slope. from there you can come up with any sort of hypothetical to justify this trade.

So far most reliable reporters (corroborated by Sweeney's own words) have the Bruins making him one offer, Dougie's camp made one counter-offer, and the Bruins moved on after that.

No attempt to negotiate, no counter-offer, nothing. And Sweeney was specifically asked if Dougie asked out and emphatically said "no".

So honestly I wonder if the Bruins even knew if Dougie wanted to stay long-term. Seems to me they saw his demands and assumed that he didn't want to be there long-term, but there is no indication that he really felt that way or said told them that was the case.

Actually, I'm fine with Bruins strategy regarding Hamilton. Bruins offered 5.5, Agent counter- proposal was at 7.5. Words out there is that Hamilton was looking at a 7 per salary. Bruins find that price too rich for their blood. It's easy for a player to play the hardline when he knows that, if the negotiations fails, an offer sheet will come after July 1st. Nice security blanket...

 

[Tak7]

I keep circling back to if the Hurricanes would have had interest.

Would it have possible to do the 13th and Dougie for the 5th and Faulk?

I don't see the need or desire on the Canes front, but that might have been my dream scenario...

Carolina seem very high on Faulk.

Maybe you could have worked a deal around the 5th, because there was plenty of discussion about Carolina wanting to move, but Faulk would have been very unlikely I think.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Actually, I'm fine with Bruins strategy regarding Hamilton. Bruins offered 5.5, Agent counter- proposal was at 7.5. Words out there is that Hamilton was looking at a 7 per salary. Bruins find that price too rich for their blood. It's easy for a player to play the hardline when he knows that, if the negotiations fails, an offer sheet will come after July 1st. Nice security blanket...

I do my best to meet him in the middle at 6.5 on a long-term deal. If the best I can do is 7 then I take it. I guarantee that even if they aren't in love with him like the fans are they would have no problem moving him at any point in the duration of that contract. Worse defensemen making more money have been traded...stranger things do happen.

Now you might say "But if they give him 7 then someone definitely has to go!" I realize that's true. I've said it probably a half dozen times on this board since the trade. If I'm forced to pay Dougie 7 million and I don't like the idea of giving that kind of money to both Dougie and Chara then I trade 38 year old Chara to make room for 22 year old Dougie every single time. It's a no-brainer. D would suffer some in the first couple years of the deal, but Chara's probably gone inside 4 years anyway. Trade him to a contender now and get something for him and make sure you keep the kid who is our best and only chance to replace him.

 

[Latrappe]

I do my best to meet him in the middle at 6.5 on a long-term deal. If the best I can do is 7 then I take it. I guarantee that even if they aren't in love with him like the fans are they would have no problem moving him at any point in the duration of that contract. Worse defensemen making more money have been traded...stranger things do happen.

Now you might say "But if they give him 7 then someone definitely has to go!" I realize that's true. I've said it probably a half dozen times on this board since the trade. If I'm forced to pay Dougie 7 million and I don't like the idea of giving that kind of money to both Dougie and Chara then I trade 38 year old Chara to make room for 22 year old Dougie every single time. It's a no-brainer. D would suffer some in the first couple years of the deal, but Chara's probably gone inside 4 years anyway. Trade him to a contender now and get something for him and make sure you keep the kid who is our best and only chance to replace him.

The thing here : Chara not the D-man he used to be and he's "damaged goods". Not saying he's useless or an old mileage plug but with his contract, not sure they would have been a lot of suitor for him. That said, I fully understand the rational behind it and it would have give it a try. Pro-activity is never a bad thing

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

The thing here : Chara not the D-man he used to be and he's "damaged goods". Not saying he's useless or an old mileage plug but with his contract, not sure they would have been a lot of suitor for him. That said, I fully understand the rational behind it and it would have give it a try. Pro-activity is never a bad thing

without looking at cap space (yes I realize this is important), I think there are several teams who would gladly take Chara off our hands because they'd see him as a guy who can help them take the next step. Colorado, Washington, Anaheim, and probably others could use a guy like him where he wouldn't have to be "the guy" but would be a good complement to what they've already built and help them make a push to win their conference.

 

[Fenway]

what exactly are you basing this on?

A couple of Canadian writers have said that.