Eller's Arbitration

[Stjonnypopo]

Meet halfway. Pay him between 2-2.5 Million.

It is what he is worth.

That's pretty much the point of all this. MTL offers less than he's worth, Eller asks for more than he's worth, and they meet halfway. The tricky point is where exactly halfway does the real value lie.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Meet halfway. Pay him between 2-2.5 Million.

It is what he is worth.

I say meet EXACTLY half way @2.375M.

Here's why. It would be a great way to troll this board. Half will say Bergevin was magnanimus and paid Eller more. The other Half will say Eller finally got Bergevin to stop lowballing him. Win-win

But seriously, I think he's worth about there for 2-3 yrs

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The PK Subban situation and the Lars Eller situations are ENTIRELY different.

I don't think so.

Eller's just not in a powerful position right now, I see no reason why the Habs should 'toss him a bone' just because he's a popular player among the fanbase.

You've missed the point of my post. I'm not saying that Eller's in a powerful position. I'm saying it doesn't always make sense to try to squeeze every last dollar you can out of your players.

If we'd have signed Eller for 3 mil per, nobody on this board would've said 'boo' about it. Instead we put up a number going into this arbitration hearing of 1.65? So we're saying Eller isn't even worth what Prust is? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you nickel and dime your players it's going to come back to bite you at some point.

 

[EveryDay]

Give Eller the DD spot and see how many point he can get....... would say 50-55 right next year.

 

[JLP]

IMO Bergy's priorities seem out of whack. Bickering over a few hundred grand with Eller but Briere handed $4m, which we've shifted (and taken an extra year) to PAP. Also instead of signing Weaver, Subban should have been signed first and then budget for the others with what cap space remained.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

I don't think so.

You've missed the point of my post. I'm not saying that Eller's in a powerful position. I'm saying it doesn't always make sense to try to squeeze every last dollar you can out of your players.

If we'd have signed Eller for 3 mil per, nobody on this board would've said 'boo' about it. Instead we put up a number going into this arbitration hearing of 1.65? So we're saying Eller isn't even worth what Prust is? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you nickel and dime your players it's going to come back to bite you at some point.

I understand you want to see a more friendly, jovial atmosphere, and your example using Dave Steib is a nice story, no doubt. Now, because the team is well off there are other little bonuses that can be added in that has to do with the travel arrangements, accomodations, training facilities, etc, etc. Those can be used as trade offs to get them to come down on their price a little bit. But in a Cap world, we are stuck with a budget, and the cost of being a team that spends to the cap is that there will always be some form of nickle and diming as you put it.

And I really think you are putting too much stock into the arbitration number. You NEVER go in as management giving your "best" offer. Just like labour alway never goes in with their "bottom line" offer. I've sat at both sides of the table. This is very normal.

As for value vs Prust. Prust was a UFA, Eller is an RFA. You rarely, if ever, get an UFA at the actual value, especially if they are coming from outside. I don't think it's really fair to compare those situations, or players.

It just isn't all black and white. It's 50 shades of grey...which is appropriate as we seem to be into a little S and M with the way we torture ourselves over these things

 

[Price is Wright]

The point was mainly that all 3 of our centers have been inconsistent in the last 2 seasons. Eller looked worst mainly cause he can't get those PP points here and there.

2011-2012 ES Points
Desharnais: 40
Plekanec: 28
Eller: 22

2012-2013 ES Points
Eller: 25
Desharnais: 21
Plekanec: 18

2013-2014 ES Points
Desharnais: 37
Plekanec: 30
Eller: 21

In full seasons, it's DD/Plek/Eller. In the shortened season, Eller overachieved.

 

[WeThreeKings]

2011-2012 ES Points
Desharnais: 40
Plekanec: 28
Eller: 22

2012-2013 ES Points
Eller: 25
Desharnais: 21
Plekanec: 18

2013-2014 ES Points
Desharnais: 37
Plekanec: 30
Eller: 21

In full seasons, it's DD/Plek/Eller. In the shortened season, Eller overachieved.

Eller proved.. As many expected.. His game translates well in the playoffs..

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Eller proved.. As many expected.. His game translates well in the playoffs..

agreed, he stepped up that physical 2-way play this year. and it worked in the season that matters. I just wish it meant more even and increased production (because more scoring is always better) thru the regular season too.

 

[Price is Wright]

Eller proved.. As many expected.. His game translates well in the playoffs..

2013-2014 Playoffs Centers at Home
Lars Eller: 9
Tomas Plekanec: 4
David Desharnais: 2
Daniel Briere: 2

2013-2014 Playoffs Centers On Road
David Desharnais: 6
Daniel Briere: 5
Tomas Plekanec: 5
Lars Eller: 4

Proved he excels in the playoffs at home? Absolutely. On the road? I wouldn't go there.

 

[overlords]

Eller proved.. As many expected.. His game translates well in the playoffs..

he also stopped having some of the worst luck in the league.

 

[Price is Wright]

Road vs. Tampa: 2 points
Road vs. Tampa: 1 point
Home vs. Tampa: 1 point
Home vs. Tampa: 1 point

Road vs. Tampa: 3 points
Home vs. Tampa: 2 points

Road vs. Boston: 1 point
Road vs. Boston: 0 points (-3)
Home vs. Boston: 2 points
Home vs. Boston: 0 points
Road vs. Boston: 0 points
Home vs. Boston: 1 point
Road vs. Boston: 0 points

Road vs. Boston: 1 point
Home vs. Boston: 3 points

Home vs. New York: 2 points
Home vs. New York: 0 points
Road vs. New York: 0 points
Road vs. New York: 0 points
Home vs. New York: 2 points (+3)
Road vs. New York: 0 points

Road vs. New York: 0 points
Home vs. New York: 4 points

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Road vs. Tampa: 2 points
Road vs. Tampa: 1 point
Home vs. Tampa: 1 point
Home vs. Tampa: 1 point

Road vs. Tampa: 3 points
Home vs. Tampa: 2 points

Road vs. Boston: 1 point
Road vs. Boston: 0 points (-3)
Home vs. Boston: 2 points
Home vs. Boston: 0 points
Road vs. Boston: 0 points
Home vs. Boston: 1 point
Road vs. Boston: 0 points

Road vs. Boston: 1 point
Home vs. Boston: 3 points

Home vs. New York: 2 points
Home vs. New York: 0 points
Road vs. New York: 0 points
Road vs. New York: 0 points
Home vs. New York: 2 points (+3)
Road vs. New York: 0 points

Road vs. New York: 0 points
Home vs. New York: 4 points

I'd love to see linemates and ice-time for each of these games

 

[JuicyHam]

he also stopped having some of the worst luck in the league.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I understand you want to see a more friendly, jovial atmosphere, and your example using Dave Steib is a nice story, no doubt. Now, because the team is well off there are other little bonuses that can be added in that has to do with the travel arrangements, accomodations, training facilities, etc, etc. Those can be used as trade offs to get them to come down on their price a little bit. But in a Cap world, we are stuck with a budget, and the cost of being a team that spends to the cap is that there will always be some form of nickle and diming as you put it.

And I really think you are putting too much stock into the arbitration number. You NEVER go in as management giving your "best" offer. Just like labour alway never goes in with their "bottom line" offer. I've sat at both sides of the table. This is very normal.

As for value vs Prust. Prust was a UFA, Eller is an RFA. You rarely, if ever, get an UFA at the actual value, especially if they are coming from outside. I don't think it's really fair to compare those situations, or players.

It just isn't all black and white. It's 50 shades of grey...which is appropriate as we seem to be into a little S and M with the way we torture ourselves over these things

I get that it's just an arbitration number and we're looking for the best deal we can get... but I don't agree that nickel and diming is the way to go. Penny rich and pound foolish is not the way to be.

If Eller was asking for 4 mil, I could understand going to arbitration I guess. But at 3 mil? What's the point? And whether its an "arbitration number" or not, 1.6 (or whatever) is pretty insulting.

I guess we'll have to see how it pans out but I'm not a fan of how we're going about this with Eller.

 

[JusticeBeaver]

IMO Bergy's priorities seem out of whack. Bickering over a few hundred grand with Eller but Briere handed $4m, which we've shifted (and taken an extra year) to PAP. Also instead of signing Weaver, Subban should have been signed first and then budget for the others with what cap space remained.

This isn't Bickering, it's business. A few hundred grand could mean the addition of a depth player. It's just the process for both parties to come up with a fair value.

The Weaver contract was done weeks before the UFA day, Mike just kept it a secret. Can't imagine there was much work put into his contract.

Determining a long term contract for an elite player takes a lot more work. Doesn't take long for time to add up sending offers, waiting for responses, paperwork, meetings, incentives, NMC, etc. All while handling the other duties of a GM, he can't shut it down and Subban we need to figure this out right now.

 

[Price is Wright]

I'd love to see linemates and ice-time for each of these games

For most of the post-season he was with Bourque and Gionta. I believe Weise played with him at times as well. Bourque kept strong numbers at home and on the road. Gionta less so but not the imbalance Eller had from home play and road play.

Eller was put in a favourable position in the playoffs by Therrien at home but Therrien couldn't do that on the road. Just nobody wants to admit to something like Therrien giving Eller favourable match-ups.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

I get that it's just an arbitration number and we're looking for the best deal we can get... but I don't agree that nickel and diming is the way to go. Penny rich and pound foolish is not the way to be.

If Eller was asking for 4 mil, I could understand going to arbitration I guess. But at 3 mil? What's the point? And whether its an "arbitration number" or not, 1.6 (or whatever) is pretty insulting.

I guess we'll have to see how it pans out but I'm not a fan of how we're going about this with Eller.

what if they offered him 2.5 and he wanted 3? we don't know. And maybe they chose that arbitration number in the hopes that the arbitrator, even by siding more to Eller, would get to that 2.5. Besides, they need all the penny pinching they can right now so those pennies can go to Subban.


Point is there are 23 guys. If we start to say, ah, what's the difference ...it's only 500K, 1M whatever....for all of them, that has a negative effect on the team overall. I have no issue paying Eller 2.5M But we just don't know what was offered.

Maybe he was offered 3m for 4 yrs but he wants short term....we just don't know. And THAT'S why I won't call him greedy or say he's being lowballed.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

what if they offered him 2.5 and he wanted 3?

Then give him 3. It's less than what Bourque, DD or Briere make. It's a little more than Prust. Don't nickel and dime the guy. He's worth three anyway.

Let's be honest here, if it was announced that Eller had signed for three mil per, nobody would've have batted an eye. I think most would've said "good job Bergie" and called it a day. The odd person might've said that MB overpaid but it wouldn't have been by much.

Now it looks like we're going to wind up in an arbitration situation here instead with our club coming in at 1.6. To me this doesn't make any sense.

 

[WeThreeKings]

2013-2014 Playoffs Centers at Home
Lars Eller: 9
Tomas Plekanec: 4
David Desharnais: 2
Daniel Briere: 2

2013-2014 Playoffs Centers On Road
David Desharnais: 6
Daniel Briere: 5
Tomas Plekanec: 5
Lars Eller: 4

Proved he excels in the playoffs at home? Absolutely. On the road? I wouldn't go there.

Oh my god.. A 2 pt difference.. Between him and the top producing center on the road. What a horrible road center.

 

[Price is Wright]

Oh my god.. A 2 pt difference.. Between him and the top producing center on the road. What a horrible road center.

You said he excelled and his game translates well in the playoffs. But DD vs. road competition and Eller vs. road competition, Eller is doing no better with exception to against Tampa.

I like Eller but he hasn't proven anything. If he plays 82 games this season I don't know if he'll be a 60 point center or a 30 point center. And he has more evidence as a 30 point center. He's hard to figure out. The difference between you and I is you are convinced he'll be the 60 point center.

 

[Fozz]

I don't think so.

You've missed the point of my post. I'm not saying that Eller's in a powerful position. I'm saying it doesn't always make sense to try to squeeze every last dollar you can out of your players.

If we'd have signed Eller for 3 mil per, nobody on this board would've said 'boo' about it. Instead we put up a number going into this arbitration hearing of 1.65? So we're saying Eller isn't even worth what Prust is? Just doesn't make sense to me.

If you nickel and dime your players it's going to come back to bite you at some point.

Prust was signed as a UFA. Apples and oranges.

 

[Fozz]

Oh my god.. A 2 pt difference.. Between him and the top producing center on the road. What a horrible road center.

Well, considering that you think DD is the worst center on the team (or it that worst player in the league? I don't recall...), then a lower output from Eller sure doesn't make him look good.

 

[overlords]

Well, considering that you think DD is the worst center on the team (or it that worst player in the league? I don't recall...), then a lower output from Eller sure doesn't make him look good.

It's as if the word 'context' doesn't exist for some of you.

 

[Fozz]

It's as if the word 'context' doesn't exist for some of you.

Did I really have to put the sarcastic smiley on that one? Common.