Eligible Receivergate - Thoughts?

[izlez]

This whole thing to me is a nothingburger and blown way out of proportion and overanalyzed.

The Lions tried to use a bunch of trickery in the simple reporting of a damn player, f*** them. They ended up confusing the refs. They share the blame here. The wrong guy was announced over the PA system loud and clear and they still ran the play, that's on them.

They even got 2 more kicks at the can, bailed out on an offisde, still couldn't convert, that's on them. They could have and should have just tied the game up and went to OT too...

NFL referee crews have gotten away with so much more than this with no action. I'm all for holding bad refs and their crews accountable, I really don't understand punishing Brad Alen and his crew here.

lol..... "Bunch of trickery"

The fact that we're now looking at Zapruder film analyzing the arm angle of Skipper as he jogs onto the field isn't on the Lions. One guy spoke to the ref to declare he's eligible.

The fact that y'all want to call back a play like the Philly Special because it's just too hard for the refs to follow and "I guess it could be illegal formation" is embarrassing.

 

[izlez]

Saw someone post a video breakdown showed how Skipper had reported earlier. Left hand raised as if taking the oath with right hand seemingly making a circle move on his stomach to indicate reporting. As he came onto the field on that 2 point play his left arm is again raised in that oath manner. Right arm bent 90 degrees, but we'd all have our arm like that, when jogging, but no reason for his left arm to be raised the way it was coming onto the field.

I have no doubt Decker did his part to report but not sure if Skipper overplayed his part with the left arm and not sure if he did make a circle motion with his right arm as he was coming on. But Allen would have had to see him early as he was coming on as by the time he reached parallel to the huddle his left arm was down.

Watch every player coming onto the field in the video released by the NFL, offense and defense. You signal to your teammates to indicate a sub by raising your hand. The secret signal for talking to the ref is just talking to the ref.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

lol..... "Bunch of trickery"

The fact that we're now looking at Zapruder film analyzing the arm angle of Skipper as he jogs onto the field isn't on the Lions. One guy spoke to the ref to declare he's eligible.

The fact that y'all want to call back a play like the Philly Special because it's just too hard for the refs to follow and "I guess it could be illegal formation" is embarrassing.

Yeah, Dan Campbell literally admitted to that after the game...

Wow a play action pass to a fat guy, you're acting like that's some amazing play never been done before...lol.

I've been to a bunch of NFL games through the years, you can always hear loud and clear who is announced as eligible over the PA system on the field. The Lions f***ed up by not realizing it, again maybe they tricked themselves in the process. Dallas presuambly didn't pay any attention to the player because they "knew" or thought he wasn't eligible because he wasn't announced.

Lions stil had 2 more tries to get the conversion including a try with the original yardage and failed.

I really don't know why this is getting so much attention, teams get boned by the refs far worse on the reg.

I do have to agree with the Dallas Cowboy factor being a big reason why.

 

[misterchainsaw]

lol..... "Bunch of trickery"

The fact that we're now looking at Zapruder film analyzing the arm angle of Skipper as he jogs onto the field isn't on the Lions. One guy spoke to the ref to declare he's eligible.

The fact that y'all want to call back a play like the Philly Special because it's just too hard for the refs to follow and "I guess it could be illegal formation" is embarrassing.

Talk about completely missing the point of the rules surrounding eligible/ineligible receivers rule.

The defense has an inherent right, by rule, to know which receivers are eligible as well as the offense's personnel at the moment the offense lines up (hence why 12 men in the huddle is an immediate penalty, even if the 12th player leaves the field as soon as the offense lines up). Detroit trying to muddy the waters of who is and isn't eligible is nothing at all like the Philly special, where the team throws the ball to an unexpected, but known to be eligible, receiver.

Watch every player coming onto the field in the video released by the NFL, offense and defense. You signal to your teammates to indicate a sub by raising your hand. The secret signal for talking to the ref is just talking to the ref.

You're wrong. The NFL memo sent out last night reminding teams to clearly identify who is reporting eligible even references the same thing several NFL writers did in the moment - you are supposed to BOTH visually (by rubbing your hand on your stomach (as if you were wiping your number off, essentially) and verbally report when you are reporting eligible.

 

[GKJ]

God, stop, it has nothing to do with the Cowboys.

 

[izlez]

Talk about completely missing the point of the rules surrounding eligible/ineligible receivers rule.

The defense has an inherent right, by rule, to know which receivers are eligible as well as the offense's personnel at the moment the offense lines up (hence why 12 men in the huddle is an immediate penalty, even if the 12th player leaves the field as soon as the offense lines up). Detroit trying to muddy the waters of who is and isn't eligible is nothing at all like the Philly special, where the team throws the ball to an unexpected, but known to be eligible, receiver.

The refs have an obligation to understand and make decisions based on observations. Not making shit up and guessing and throwing shit against the wall because their unsure.

You're wrong. The NFL memo sent out last night reminding teams to clearly identify who is reporting eligible even references the same thing several NFL writers did in the moment - you are supposed to BOTH visually (by rubbing your hand on your stomach (as if you were wiping your number off, essentially) and verbally report when you are reporting eligible.

So why is the ref relying on a vague arm raise from the opposite side of the field, with no verbal reporting, to declare Skipper eligible??? This is precisely what Decker did and what Skipper didn't do

 

[Filthy Dangles]

God, stop, it has nothing to do with the Cowboys.

Nah, you can't tell me if it was Dallas that got 'boned' in favor of Detroit that the narrative and reaction wouldn't be different. It certainly would imo

 

[GKJ]

Nah, you can't tell me if it was Dallas that got 'boned' in favor of Detroit that the narrative and reaction wouldn't be different. It certainly would imo

The only people talking about that shit are Cowboys fans who have convinced themselves everything is about them.

 

[mouser]

Saw someone post a video breakdown showed how Skipper had reported earlier. Left hand raised as if taking the oath with right hand seemingly making a circle move on his stomach to indicate reporting. As he came onto the field on that 2 point play his left arm is again raised in that oath manner. Right arm bent 90 degrees, but we'd all have our arm like that, when jogging, but no reason for his left arm to be raised the way it was coming onto the field.

I have no doubt Decker did his part to report but not sure if Skipper overplayed his part with the left arm and not sure if he did make a circle motion with his right arm as he was coming on. But Allen would have had to see him early as he was coming on as by the time he reached parallel to the huddle his left arm was down.

Even if Skipper overplayed it with his hand(s)--I don't have an opinion whether he did or not--that still wouldn't satisfy the second part of the protocol outlined by the NFL requiring both a hand signal and reporting to the referee as an eligible receiver.

 

[daver]

So why is the ref relying on a vague arm raise from the opposite side of the field, with no verbal reporting, to declare Skipper eligible??? This is precisely what Decker did and what Skipper didn't do

#70 did the exact same motion as when he declared before. It was not a vague arm raise. It could be easily concluded that it was done on purpose by #70 as part of the trickery.

The Lions were coming out of a timeout and presumably had called this play. The plan was for #68 and #58 to leave the huddle to go to the ref and then have #70 presumably run in to substitute for another Lion player creating the impression he was, again, the lineman reporting as eligible. He raises his arm in an similar manner as before except the Lions can argue that was just him signaling to his teammate to come off except we know damn well that the player who came off knew he was coming off (or perhaps potentially).

So #70 has raised his arm, the ref clearly believes he is coming over to declare himself eligible again as he points at him as #70 continues to deliberately run at him. What we don't know is any of the verbal exchanges but even still, the Lions should have made sure the ref got it right given they pushing the envelope of their trickery. It is borderline ridiculous to believe noone on the Lions heard #70 being announced. They had time to adjust the play or clarify the eligible receiver because the 25 second clock had not started.

 

[daver]

Even if Skipper overplayed it with his hand(s)--I don't have an opinion whether he did or not--that still wouldn't satisfy the second part of the protocol outlined by the NFL requiring both a hand signal and reporting to the referee as an eligible receiver.

Noone is arguing that the ref didn't potentially mess up. We don't know if #70 gave some sort of confirmation as he got close to the ref, or something that could be taken as confirmation. He had reported multiple times during the game and I would think the ref is trying to be as efficient as he can be to be able to notify the other team.

And there is a time constraint here. The TO is running down and the ref needs to start the play clock in a reasonable amount of time.

That the Lions didn't make a special effort to clarify after the ref was clearly indicating he was focused on #70 is a reasonable question to ask. I think they were trying to be as subtle as possible so they didn't tip their hat anymore than they had to and it cost them.

 

[izlez]

#70 did the exact same motion as when he declared before. It was not a vague arm raise. It could be easily concluded that it was done on purpose by #70 as part of the trickery.

The Lions were coming out of a timeout and presumably had called this play. The plan was for #68 and #58 to leave the huddle to go to the ref and then have #70 presumably run in to substitute for another Lion player creating the impression he was, again, the lineman reporting as eligible. He raises his arm in an similar manner as before except the Lions can argue that was just him signaling to his teammate to come off except we know damn well that the player who came off knew he was coming off (or perhaps potentially).

So #70 has raised his arm, the ref clearly believes he is coming over to declare himself eligible again as he points at him as #70 continues to deliberately run at him. What we don't know is any of the verbal exchanges but even still, the Lions should have made sure the ref got it right given they pushing the envelope of their trickery. It is borderline ridiculous to believe noone on the Lions heard #70 being announced. They had time to adjust the play or clarify the eligible receiver because the 25 second clock had not started.

He raised his arms both times to signal to his teammate to sub. There is no raising of the arm to indicate he is eligible. That's not a thing. He ran up to the ref to tell him the first time. The fact that he raised his arms both times has no bearing on anything

 

[John Price]

 

[JimmyApples]

Nah, you can't tell me if it was Dallas that got 'boned' in favor of Detroit that the narrative and reaction wouldn't be different. It certainly would imo

There’s literal proof of this because Dallas got boned worse in the game a couple of minutes prior.

oh well, comes with the territory!

 

[Troy McClure]

I don't care about the penalty thing any more, but I do love Dan Campbell. Here he is on his weekly radio appearance. Gotta respect him for being honest, explaining his process, taking the criticism, and owning his decision.

 

[bov]

Looks to me like Decker needed to do a better job of getting the refs attention, he wasn't acknowledged at any point during the sequence. Despite whatever was drawn up pregame, It clearly wasn't evident to the referee and Decker should have recognized that imo. Then they announce #70 and still nobody does anything?

I don't watch a ton of football but I don't put this all on the official.

 

[GKJ]

Looks to me like Decker needed to do a better job of getting the refs attention, he wasn't acknowledged at any point during the sequence. Despite whatever was drawn up pregame, It clearly wasn't evident to the referee and Decker should have recognized that imo. Then they announce #70 and still nobody does anything?

I don't watch a ton of football but I don't put this all on the official.

He had to it the referee acknowledged that there was a verbal report.

 

[bov]

He had to it the referee acknowledged that there was a verbal report.

I still don't fully understand. The ref himself said #68 reported verbally? Apologies for my ignorance, I'm not familiar with these things.

It just didn't seem to me that #68 was ever acknowledged by the ref. I would think that the player would want to see some type of response to confirm his eligibility, regardless of whether or not the official should know the play beforehand. Then again I only saw the jomboy video.

 

[GKJ]

I still don't fully understand. The ref himself said #68 reported verbally? Apologies for my ignorance, I'm not familiar with these things.

It just didn't seem to me that #68 was ever acknowledged by the ref. I would think that the player would want to see some type of response to confirm his eligibility, regardless of whether or not the official should know the play beforehand. Then again I only saw the jomboy video.

He said it was 70, but given what we know from the video, that wasn’t possible.

 

[TheAngryHank]

Nah, you can't tell me if it was Dallas that got 'boned' in favor of Detroit that the narrative and reaction wouldn't be different. It certainly would imo

It might be less of an issue week 1 or if it wasn't for division lead of the NFC East where all 4 teams are huge in popularity ,on national television on the night the Drama Cowboys do a televised ring of honor induction that no one outside Dallas cares about. Against a team that WON the game last second only to have it ripped from them by a reff screw job ,not in the first quarter.

 

[daver]

He said it was 70, but given what we know from the video, that wasn’t possible.

Still doesn't change that #68 didn't seem to get acknowledged. Which was confirmed by the announcement.

So, yes, it is unclear, because we have no audio, that #70 confirmed verbally, or in some fashion as he was running at the ref. The ref was clearly pointing at him, likely because two other lineman were approaching him, to say "you are reporting?".

But this also doesn't mean that #68 was not at fault for making sure he was acknowledged. To position this as "it was clear as day that #68 reported, the ref effed up" is not reasonable.

It wasn't clear as day at all. When does #68 make the physical gesture of reporting?

 

[DoyleG]

 

[JimmyApples]

Was hoping the Cowboys would get a big man TD today just to show the Lions how it’s done