Elias Pettersson should be the next Captain of the Vancouver Canucks

[sting101]

Horvat will be a great captain

 

[Ainec]

I’ll do anything to win an argument I guess, haha.

But seriously - just go with the obvious choice here. Don’t potentially create controversy by selecting Pettersson.

I thought it was obvious too but I've changed my mind

This season is a wash, which leaves Horvat with 4 more years on his contract. Next season will be a wash too (no chance of a cup). That's 3 years before UFA, which means contract and extension no later than 2021-22.

As much as people say captaincy is meaningless, a Horvat captaincy all but guarantees him full leverage in any contract negotiations. Ideally he signs a 8 year contract before we use captaincy as leverage (extension + captaincy announcement).

 

[Horse McHindu]

@Ainec - don’t get me wrong, your idea isn’t the worst idea in the world and you do make some solid arguments, but I just don’t like this idea of potentially creating controversy from what should be a no brainer decision. It’s been accepted for quite some time that Horvat is the next guy in line. Don’t go against that. Horvat has put in the time, has the experience, and plays all roles that is asked of him without questioning it. Earlier this year, Horvat was lighting it up offensively. Sutter and Beagle go down with injury? Horvat takes over the defensive responsibilities without ever questioning or complaining.

Horvat for the C with Pettersson and Boeser wearing A’s.

 

[Josepho]

I really don't care who our captain is and if not for the fact that it has a specific on-ice purpose I probably wouldn't care if captaincy in hockey was even a thing.

 

[Ainec]

@Ainec - don’t get me wrong, your idea isn’t the worst idea in the world and you do make some solid arguments, but I just don’t like this idea of potentially creating controversy from what should be a no brainer decision. It’s been accepted for quite some time that Horvat is the next guy in line. Don’t go against that. Horvat has put in the time, has the experience, and plays all roles that is asked of him without questioning it. Earlier this year, Horvat was lighting it up offensively. Sutter and Beagle go down with injury? Horvat takes over the defensive responsibilities without ever questioning or complaining.

Horvat for the C with Pettersson and Boeser wearing A’s.

Yeah it was so obvious that this hadn't been a discussion until I brought it up.

And like I said I agree with you, but now that I think about it.. if we didn't groom Horvat for this role, Pettersson would be a slam dunk choice. Pettersson's emergence allows us to demand more out of Bo, namely another long extension

 

[Ainec]

I really don't care who our captain is and if not for the fact that it has a specific on-ice purpose I probably wouldn't care if captaincy in hockey was even a thing.

so then you agree, it's a worthless title and you should name your best player as captain like most teams do

 

[Josepho]

so then you agree, it's a worthless title and you should name your best player as captain like most teams do

Pettersson or Horvat, flip a coin.

 

[M2Beezy]

I've always maintained that Horvat should be captain when the Sedins retired but this.. just occurred to me, why shouldn't it be Pettersson?

Now that I think about it, this shouldn't even be controversial. In fact it's weird that there's no hype for Pettersson taking on the reigns of Sedin and Naslund, it's like everyone (including me before today) accepted Horvat as the next captain.

Just by his way of conducting interviews, and him drawing up plays as a rookie.. And how bad the team is without him in the lineup. No brainer.

AINEC

 

[thekernel]

I think, if you attribute any meaning to captaincy, it should be given to Horvat without a doubt. Do you think Pettersson would disagree?

 

[vanarchy]

Horvat has been a leader in pretty much every league he has ever played in and it shows. O Captain, My Captain.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

of all captains in the league only these players were not the best player on their team:

Justin Williams (placeholder for Aho), Gabriel Landeskog (youngest made captain), Foligno (placeholder for Dubois), Lee (idk)

Zdeno Chara
Jonathan Toews
Jamie Benn
Andy Greene
Joe Pavelski
Steven Stamkos

Come on...

 

[Intangibos]

Horvat is the cookie-cutter stereotypical Captain Canada. He will get the C. I think Pettersson would be just as good, he expects a lot of himself and I'm sure he feels the same way towards his teammates. Also, I think Pettersson will be a player who will get pissed if someone is dogging it and tell them as much. Horvat seems much more of a "lead by example" type like the Sedins. Horvat seems like a great guy and in my head I can't imagine him really going after a teammate who deserved it.

Anyway, it honestly doesn't matter. The captaincy is the most overrated thing in sports. The "C" is just who deals with the media and gets the press. Luongo was the leader in the room and they gave him the C out of respect and it was a whole thing, but it's not like the room changed when they gave it to Henrik instead.

Wearing the C is prestige. I think Pettersson has a lot of other shiny prestige in his future that Horvat doesn't. Give Horvat the C.

 

[Ainec]

Zdeno Chara
Jonathan Toews
Jamie Benn
Andy Greene
Joe Pavelski
Steven Stamkos

Come on...

use your head and ask yourself what year they were named captain

didn't think I needed to mention this

 

[Var]

Horvat's the man.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Who cares what other teams do or did. Bo is a good choice but there is also a good argument for naming Pettersson the captain whether some people like it or not, he's "the guy" no ifs ands or buts when it comes to who will be the face of the Canucks for the next 5-10 years at least. As for the other captain duties I think he's probably not quite ready for them yet but he will be soon. He doesn't like interviews because his English isn't perfect and he's a perfectionist but once he gets better at it I'm sure that'll change. Oh yeah he's also 20 years old. I think once he's 22 he'll be incredible captain material. No matter who wears the C there won't be any doubt in anyone's mind who leads the team on the ice when it comes to winning the hockey games. It's Pettersson for sure.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Chicago = Toews. Kane is best player.
Los Angles = Kopitar. Doughty is the best player.
Detroit = Yzerman. Lidstrom and Federov were best players.
Colorado = Sakic. Forsberg = best player
New Jersey = Stevens. Brodeur + Niedermayer = best players.
Dallas = Derian Hatcher. Modano = best player.

To be fair Kopitar and Toews are the captains of those teams mostly because Doughty and Kane are shitheads.

 

[Grub]

Have listened to a lot of Hovat interviews and he fits the bill as Captain.

 

[Intangibos]

To be fair Kopitar and Toews are the captains of those teams mostly because Doughty and Kane are ****heads.

Is Keith a dickhead off the ice as well? Keith and Kane were both better than Toews.

Not to derail the thread but how the hell was Toews so overrated? Must have been the most overrated player in North American sports. Top 100 all time

 

[Motte and Bailey]

Is Keith a ******** off the ice as well? Keith and Kane were both better than Toews.

Not to derail the thread but how the hell was Toews so overrated? Must have been the most overrated player in North American sports. Top 100 all time

Re: Keith I don't know, probably. Toews wasn't overrated.. He always had skill and he was clearly the best player on the ice on a stacked team Canada that won gold in 2010 (which you should remember if you were in Vancouver at the time) and followed that up with 29 points in 22 playoff games to lead his team to a Stanley cup as a 21 year old captain. Not sure why his production fell off relatively or why Kane's production exploded at 27 years old. I think it might have to do with psychoactive drugs impacting his reflexes and motor abilities - I remember Toews talking about being really into "expanding his consciousness" on a podcast once. He's no slouch at 42 points in 48 games but his contract is a very hard one to live up to.

 

[Steely Van]

I want Boeser to be Captain after watching building Brock. He's gone through alot in life, handles situations with so much class, seems to be easy going and approachable. While Bo and Elias appear to be too serious and bit stressed out at times. With Bo and Elias they sometimes get upset too easily when they make a mistakes while Brock is less likely to let mistakes bother him as he knows he probably won't make the same mistake again. These are just my observations from watching them play but I haven't watched all their games so I might be wrong.

 

[elitepete]

I think Horvat is better suited to the role of captain because he can handle everything that comes with being the captain better right now. I don’t think EP will be ready for another 2-3 years. For example, on HNIC, Burke said the captain picks up new high profile players from the airport sometimes. There are a lot of other responsibilities other than just talking to the media and I don’t think EP is ready for all of them yet. However, I am 100% sure that EP may be able to handle all these responsibilities one day. He is a very high character person.

It is just bad timing that EP is so young right now and we already have an excellent choice in Horvat that is more than ready.

That being said, there is no doubt who’s team this is. This is EP’s team and he is the leader going forward.

 

[Intangibos]

Re: Keith I don't know, probably. Toews wasn't overrated.. He always had skill and he was clearly the best player on the ice on a stacked team Canada that won gold in 2010 (which you should remember if you were in Vancouver at the time) and followed that up with 29 points in 22 playoff games to lead his team to a Stanley cup as a 21 year old captain. Not sure why his production fell off relatively or why Kane's production exploded at 27 years old. I think it might have to do with psychoactive drugs impacting his reflexes and motor abilities - I remember Toews talking about being really into "expanding his consciousness" on a podcast once. He's no slouch at 42 points in 48 games but his contract is a very hard one to live up to.

Bonino was a Conn Smythe contender. Toews was excellent in 2010 but it is a small sample size. He's certainly no bum, but this guy is rated top 100 of all time and there was talk if he was better than Crosby. Keith-Seabrook was our best pairing in 2010. IIRC Kesler had a great Olympics on the team that took Canada to OT in a hell of a game and also did very well in the playoffs until his injury while having to take defensive duties with Malhotra out. Linden sure had a hell of a playoffs as well but I think we can all agree he isn't in the conversation with top players. Sample size matters.

At the end of the day the cup is a team award and those Chicago teams were insane, it's a lot easier to be a captain on an elite team than a bad team. Also, as I said before, I believe the captaincy is overrated. Suspiciously it's always players like Toews who get a ton of credit for winning based on intangibles and leadership in the room while Ovechkin wearing the C doesn't seem to play into it much. The only "C" that matters is the C for "Core". One leader is not what makes the difference, but a core filled with leaders.

It's not sour grapes and I'm not trying to run down Toews, but being considered better than Crosby as the best player in the league is absurd. Up front Tavares, Stamkos, Ovechkin and Malkin were all ahead of him and you can put guys like Chara in there as well. Keith was a monster for those cup years as well and won a Norris. It's not a matter of Toews being bad while everyone thinks he is good, it's a matter of people putting him ahead of Crosby and top 100 of all time.

Gudbranson is a bad player who is overrated
Sutter is a solid player who is overrated
Toews is an elite player who is overrated.

Sedins were elite players who were underrated (until they suddenly became sweethearts in the final 2 or maybe 3 years of their careers)
Burrows was a very good player who was underrated
Wellwood was a solid player who was underrated
Gaunce is a depth player who is underrated

It's the top and bottom end of those scales where the overrated/underrated is exaggerated the most.

Gudbranson is a player who should be a #7/AHL guy but in reality would 100% get a pretty decent return in a trade
Toews was billed as the best player in the world and considered top 100 ever in the middle of his prime.

Gaunce shouldn't clear waivers and is fine in a specialist role. Nothing special but better than other depth NHL players.
Sedins were treated like garbage by the media and the league, even players talked shit about them until they retired.

The Sedins in their prime were quite honestly better than Toews in their respective primes, but they didn't have the Canadian serious captain image and the CHOKERS only made it to game 7 of the finals rather than winning. Excluding Toews 29p in 22 games year, which admittedly is a pretty f***ing big thing to exclude, the Sedins actually out performed Toews in points per game. If it weren't for that disaster of a finals with the entire team injured they would have cleared him including the 29p performance, but to be fair if ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas. Even so, it's close and you know damn well if they won the cup they still wouldn't get any credit for "intangibles", those would go to Kesler, Bieksa and Luongo (not that they didn't deserve it).

Burrows brought far more to the team in the room than Kesler, and this is documented, but he would be dismissed as well to give credit to Ryan "Mr Quiet" "She's lookin good, Schneider" "I want a trade. *tanks value* heh. nothing personnel, Gillis" Kesler.

If Pettersson and Horvat go on to win the cup with Horvat as the captain, you can bet your ass that Horvat will be overrated as well, and to be honest with Horvat's career trajectory so far I think he has the potential to be a Toews tier player. He oozes character, works hard, keeps improving and will take whatever you throw at him. I love me some Horvat and believe him to be underrated right now because we aren't a playoff team, but he will never be better than Crosby or the Sedins.

The Sedins were the most dominant possession players in the game along with Crosby for several seasons. Like Crosby, Henrik and Daniel were clearly 1-3 in a tight race. The most important thing that could put Toews over the top with the Sedins is longevity as the Sedins had a very bizarre career trajectory, but at their peak were better than Toews and top 5, arguably top 3 with Crosby, players in the league which Toews has never been. That peak wasn't like the 50 games or whatever were Bertuzzi was "the best player in hockey", it was for 5 years. It wasn't matchups either, the Sedins played against the best players in the league and performed.

Being a North American captain gives you a +5 buff in the media which moves you up the rankings. There is no shame in Yzerman behind behind Fedorov and Lidstrom, but a lot of people do put Yzerman ahead of Fedorov just like they put Toews ahead of better players. Absolutely elite player and has the hardware to be a 1st ballot hall of famer. Not better than Crosby, not top 100 all time, 3rd best player on his team behind two other elite hall of famers with just as much hardware.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

use your head and ask yourself what year they were named captain

didn't think I needed to mention this

"Use your head... "

You are downright wrong about this. Its not that big of a deal.

 

[Horse McHindu]

To be fair Kopitar and Toews are the captains of those teams mostly because Doughty and Kane are ****heads.

Fair enough. I got preoccupied in trying to win the debate against @Ainec like any true gentleman would. :p

 

[DomY]

The best argument against giving it to EP is actually the fact that Kopitar is the captain of the Kings now. Downtown Dustin Brown held the honour for the longest time. There's no reason why they both can't be captains at some point.

Give it to Horvat now, and take it from Bo when there's a need to shift the culture (like Kopitar/Brown or Pavelski/Thornton), when Bo retires as the best captain in franchise history (like Lidstrom/Yzerman) or when he's traded or leaves as a UFA (ROR, Tavares)