Eichel,Reinhart,Dahlin Vs Matthews,Marner,Rielly

[Leafs at Knight]

On the powerplsy for sure. Defending a late lead Dahlin is definitely already better.

You litterally just made something up to make your choice seem better.

 

[koyvoo]

You litterally just made something up to make your choice seem better.

Ya, that’s what I do. It has zero to do with Dahlin possessing better defensive awareness.

 

[Atomos2]

On the powerplsy for sure. Defending a late lead Dahlin is definitely already better.

Makes sense. Why have the guy who is a +24 when he’s on the ice facing tougher QOC in the last minutes of the game when you can have the rookie whose a +2.

Based on those odds, I guess you’d wager the extra minus in that last minute would go to the +24 guy?

 

[koyvoo]

Makes sense. Why have the guy who is a +24 when he’s on the ice facing tougher QOC in the last minutes of the game when you can have the rookie whose a +2.

Based on those odds, I guess you’d wager the extra plus in that last minute would go to the +2 guy?

Yet another great example to illustrate how numbers can be a great tool to aid in player valuations, but without the context of visuals they can be useless and even deceiving.

It takes less than 10 shifts to realize that Dahlin understands playing behind his own blueline better than does Rielly.

 

[Atomos2]

Yet another great example to illustrate how numbers can be a great tool to aid in player valuations, but without the context of visuals they can be useless and even deceiving.

It takes less than 10 shifts to realize that Dahlin understands playing behind his own blueline better than does Rielly.

That’s your context? Think you’ll need to come up with a little bit more when trying to outshine a current Norris contender.

 

[koyvoo]

That’s your context?

Yes. Exactly in the same way that I argue to people who claim Marner’s success is due to Tavares. I’m confident that anyone who comes to that conclusion doesn’t watch Mitch Marner play hockey. I’m convinced of that.

In the same context, I’m convinced that anyone who can’t see that Dahlin has better defensive awareness at this point than Rielly doesn’t watch Dahlin play.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Rielly is probably the most overrated player in the league right now.

That title is held by Pettersson at the moment.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

Reilly is a lot better then Dahlin right now.

I know Tavares Matthews Marner having those guys in the ice for Reilly helps his Pts but he helps them too, you could use that argument for anyone Giordano is getting a bunch of Norris love but look at the season Gaudreau is having, or Tkachuk/monahan, that stuff is helping him.

So dahlin has a ways to go if he wants to be in Reilly’s league but he shouldn’t be at 18 anyway.

The good news is he does project to be better one day but we will see how it goes.

Off topic a little bit a guy I really think should take the Norris is Josi, this May be his big chance to do it. PK is more colourful with personality and those high risk plays but Josi just does it all, and I think nashville forwards benefit from him more then the other way around where-as most teams like the leafs flames or even sabres the forwards pull most of the weight.

Matthews > Eichel
Marner > Reinhart
Reilly < Dahlin

The question asks who do you take going forward. I am not convinced Rielly's production isn't a product of the incredible offense the leafs have (he is clearly a part of that offense, but I find it hard to believe he would be putting up 44 points on the Sabres and that Dahlin would only have 20 on the Leafs). Add in the huge age gap between Dahlin and Rielly and I take Dahlin going forward.

Take Matthews over Eichel because he is better defensively while being basically equal offensively and Marner over Reinhart right now is obviously no contest. Leafs trio wins.

Matthews might be better defensively but don’t think Eichel is the same player as he was in the first two years defensively he is night and day more responsible defensively ever since becoming captain. He’s actually s great two way forward this year. He’s even been the best defensive forwArd on the team and in the game on some nights. But Matthews is pretty damn stellar defensively. So I agree auston is still better so far there.

 

[Tage2Tuch]

That title is held by Pettersson at the moment.

Absolutely.

I watch Vancouver all the time so it infuriates me, every single good thing he does is blown up by John Garrett and replayed and they talk about it for twenty minutes during the intermission (Rogers tells them to sell hope sell hope) so guys like Doug McLean were overdoing it on purpose to begin with but he did the “he’s too good for this league” comment then had to apologize for it the next day saying with a smile “I was kidding!” and even when the game or play has nothing to do with him they will just start talking about what he did in the game
Before.

In some ways I get it he’s incredible in both ends and flashy and Vancouver hasn’t really had anyone like this since bure, the sedins you could argue but the fans have sort of been tired of them and wanted them to love on the last five years (I live in bc trust me) and their farewell and everything made everyone forget that fact and they are the most respected Guys and all of that so that masks how lots of fans felt about them and wanting to rebuild and now they have it, the fact that he wasn’t a top pick is more bragging rights for them and they’re really going overboard with the love he’s getting.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Absolutely.

I watch Vancouver all the time so it infuriates me, every single good thing he does is blown up by John Garrett and replayed and they talk about it for twenty minutes during the intermission (Rogers tells them to sell hope sell hope) so guys like Doug McLean were overdoing it on purpose to begin with but he did the “he’s too good for this league” comment then had to apologize for it the next day saying with a smile “I was kidding!” and even when the game or play has nothing to do with him they will just start talking about what he did in the game
Before.

In some ways I get it he’s incredible in both ends and flashy and Vancouver hasn’t really had anyone like this since bure, the sedins you could argue but the fans have sort of been tired of them and wanted them to love on the last five years (I live in bc trust me) and their farewell and everything made everyone forget that fact and they are the most respected Guys and all of that so that masks how lots of fans felt about them and wanting to rebuild and now they have it, the fact that he wasn’t a top pick is more bragging rights for them and they’re really going overboard with the love he’s getting.

Oh yeah! And I still think he's incredible but when he's winning polls over guys like Matthews and Eichel it kind of speaks for itself.

 

[Team Cozens]

Eichel >= Matthews
Marner >> Reinhart
Dahlin >> Reilly

Very close.

 

[TheTwelfth]

The gap between Marner and Reinhart is quite large at this point. Reinhart may turn into a great 70-80 pts winger on Eichel’s wing, but Marner is looking like a future (present?) 110 pts winger. I don’t even think Reinhart may be on the top line once Nylander and Olofsson make the senior team.

Dahlin is looking to end up better than Reilly, but unless it becomes the difference between Lindström and Rafalski, I don’t see how you cannot pick the Maple Leafs trio.

 

[BlueBaron]

A franchise defense man and center. I'll take the Sabres even though I think Marner is better than Reinhart. The eventual gap between Dahlin and Rielly as an all round defense man is just too big to ignore. Eichel and Matthews is a coin flip.

But the Marner Reinhart gap is easy to ignore?

Franchise D and C? Sounds like the Leafs. You should have said Franchise C and Elite prospect.

Hard to take this poll seriously. Pretty obviously favors the Leafs.

If you work on the assumption Matthews=Eichel and then make the leap a rookie is better than a Norris candidate (which is insane) and then assume the gap between that rookie and the Norris candidate is so huge as to Dwarf the gap between the scoring leader and the 3rd liner.

This takes a lot of imagination.

 

[Lemontree]

On the powerplsy for sure. Defending a late lead Dahlin is definitely already better.

Leafs are currently 20-0-0 when leading after the 2nd period.

They have outscored opponents 54 to 38.

 

[BlueBaron]

Leafs are currently 20-0-0 when leading after the 2nd period.

They have outscored opponents 54 to 38.

When someone tells you a rookie who is not even a Calder fav is better than a Norris fav you just pat them on the head and smile.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

2 ofthe top 3 best players are on the Leafs so it's the Leafs

 

[Mats13]

I think Leaf fans overrate Rielly. Putting up points on one of the NHL's best teams does not mean you are having a Norris caliber season.

Man when will people stop acting like they watch players they clearly don't.

I don't care who you pick, but to try and diminish Rielly to prove your point is just stupid. Watch him play. He's elite. He makes everyone who plays with him better. And he does all of this with Ron Hainsey as his partner.

 

[WillTheThrill]

I think Leaf fans overrate Rielly. Putting up points on one of the NHL's best teams does not mean you are having a Norris caliber season.

He’s also playing with Ron f***ing Hainsey.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Rielly is probably the most overrated player in the league right now.

 

[WillTheThrill]

On the powerplsy for sure. Defending a late lead Dahlin is definitely already better.

Aren’t the leafs 20-0-0 when leading after 2?

 

[koyvoo]

Aren’t the leafs 20-0-0 when leading after 2?

Ya. And it has everything thing to do with the way Rielly defends late in the game. Everything.

Teams usually have really amazing records when leading after 2.

 

[koyvoo]

Leafs are currently 20-0-0 when leading after the 2nd period.

They have outscored opponents 54 to 38.

Most teams in the NHL have incredible records when leading after 2. I’ll bet even very crappy teams have very good records when leading after 2.

Or do you think onlyba team with Morgan Rielly defending late leads can pull that off?

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Man when will people stop acting like they watch players they clearly don't.

I don't care who you pick, but to try and diminish Rielly to prove your point is just stupid. Watch him play. He's elite. He makes everyone who plays with him better. And he does all of this with Ron Hainsey as his partner.

You clearly do care because you are trying to tell me what my actions are.

 

[WillTheThrill]

Ya. And it has everything thing to do with the way Rielly defends late in the game. Everything.

Teams usually have really amazing records when leading after 2.

Does that stat not have to do with defending a lead? What is your justification for Dahlin being better at defending a lead?

 

[koyvoo]

Does that stat not have to do with defending a lead? What is your justification for Dahlin being better at defending a lead?

The after 2 leads thing in ridiculous. Buffalo has one loss when leading after two periods. Toronto has zero.

As I said even crappy teams have great records when leading after two. It’s just the crappy teams having built a lead in the first two periods as often as good teams, but maintaining the lead after two periods is overwhelmingly common.

My main opinion of preferring Dahlin to Rielly in in a defence first situation is for the fact that Dahlin has better awareness and a better understanding in his own end.