Ehlers or Nolan Patrick

[JetsHomer]

I'm fairly confident in Patrick being better than the below #2 picks or at least as good.

JVR
Murray
Jordan Staal
Bobby Ryan
Landeskog
Reinhart

So, you fail

Wrap it up failures,this guy is ‘fairly confident’ so nothing to discuss here

 

[blood gin]

Would be shocked if Patrick doesn't surpass Ehlers as he matures.

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Wrap it up failures,this guy is ‘fairly confident’ so nothing to discuss here

i'm a failure

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I know you just didn't use a difference of 2-3 points over a ten game span to try to determine who's been playing better. Anyway, Simmer & Voracek play PP1, Patrick does not, which actually makes up more than the difference. At evens, Patrick's been the best player on the line per the eye test and traditional stats back that up (6 points vs. 4 points vs. 4 points). I'd imagine the fancy stats might support that assertion as well, but I'm not terribly proficient with those.

That's fair, though I'd highlight that all of his assists over that period are of the secondary variety.

His foot speed has looked much better lately, but I still wouldn't say he's been better than either of those games - though I've only seen 3 of their games in the past 10 (NJx2 and CAR).

 

[mja]

That's fair, though I'd highlight that all of his assists over that period are of the secondary variety.

His foot speed has looked much better lately, but I still wouldn't say he's been better than either of those games - though I've only seen 3 of their games in the past 10 (NJx2 and CAR).

Eh, I'm far more forgiving of the secondary assist than a lot of other posters. Take Simmer's even strength goal the other night. Patrick got the 2nd assist but the play doesn't happen if he doesn't win the face-off, secure a 50/50 puck, turn, and pass it to Ghost at the point for the shot.

His foot speed has been a lot better but may never be more than average, but that doesn't really matter to me. His top speed is fine, good even, and he's a big kid who's learning how to use his body along the walls to gain and maintain possession of the puck. He's an extremely intelligent player in all three zones and has really nice hands, which his goal against the Rangers showed off a bit. He sees the ice well and his passing (he loves him some sauce) has been a bit of a revelation to me at least, since I hadn't watched him outside of some highlight videos before he became a Flyer. All of which is to say, that, I'm extremely confident that he's going to be at least a legit 2C, and I'm curious to see what he's able to do when he's fully healthy and had an entire off-season to properly train.

 

[lomiller1]

Would be shocked if Patrick doesn't surpass Ehlers as he matures.

Ehlers setting a really high bar. High enough that expecting any young player to surpass it is a stretch. It's not impossible they do, but it's beyond what you should expect for almost any young player.

 

[blood gin]

Ehlers setting a really high bar. High enough that expecting any young player to surpass it is a stretch. It's not impossible they do, but it's beyond what you should expect for almost any young player.

But Patrick was the 2nd overall pick. Something big is expected of him. Ehlers is on pace for 30 something goals and 55-60pts this year. I would expect Nolan Patrick to hit and exceed those numbers in his career multiple times.

 

[StoneHands]

Ehlers setting a really high bar. High enough that expecting any young player to surpass it is a stretch. It's not impossible they do, but it's beyond what you should expect for almost any young player.

It's not like Ehlers is a superstar. He's a good player but I don't think it's too high of an expectation that he's a 60+ point player.

 

[lomiller1]

Ehlers is on pace for 30 something goals and 55-60pts this year. I would expect Nolan Patrick to hit and exceed those numbers in his career multiple times.

If all he does is surpass Ehlers numbers from his 21 year "a couple of times in his career" chances are he’s fallen well short of what Ehlers has accomplished.

 

[surixon]

I like Patrick but am curious why people think he has a higher ceiling. Ehlers point production was superior in junior then Patricks. Ehlers also has Patrick clearly beat in the skating department and is imo more skilled.

Patrick has a very nice all around offensive tool kit and the smarts to go with it but imo he's always been a player who was ranked high more for how he projects then his ceiling which imo is lower than most of the more recent centers drafted near the top of the draft the last few seasons.

I see a 20 to 25 g 60 to 65 point all arou d C at fairly likely. I believe Ehlers can be a ppg.

 

[blood gin]

If all he does is surpass Ehlers numbers from his 21 year "a couple of times in his career" chances are he’s fallen well short of what Ehlers has accomplished.

Who says Ehlers doesn't plateau or only get a little bit better from here on out? Scoring 30 at 22 doesn't automatically mean you'll score 50 at 24-25. It's hard to do that in this league

 

[mja]

I like Patrick but am curious why people think he has a higher ceiling. Ehlers point production was superior in junior then Patricks. Ehlers also has Patrick clearly beat in the skating department and is imo more skilled.

Patrick has a very nice all around offensive tool kit and the smarts to go with it but imo he's always been a player who was ranked high more for how he projects then his ceiling which imo is lower than most of the more recent centers drafted near the top of the draft the last few seasons.

I see a 20 to 25 g 60 to 65 point all arou d C at fairly likely. I believe Ehlers can be a ppg.

Patrick's ceiling is something along the lines of what Couturier is doing right now, so PPG 1st line center. His floor to me looks to be about a mid-level 2C.

 

[surixon]

Patrick's ceiling is something along the lines of what Couturier is doing right now, so PPG 1st line center. His floor to me looks to be about a mid-level 2C.

I don't really agree with that. Saw him play for years in Brandon, very smart player but doesn't have enoih elite tools to get to an elite level imo.

Average skating
Above average hands and puck control
Above average but not elite shot
Above average vision and passing.
Hockey sense and smarts is the only thing I'd say he's elite at.

 

[mja]

I don't really agree with that. Saw him play for years in Brandon, very smart player but doesn't have enoih elite tools to get to an elite level imo.

Average skating
Above average hands and puck control
Above average but not elite shot
Above average vision and passing.
Hockey sense and smarts is the only thing I'd say he's elite at.

That's like the most important thing to be elite at, and it's literally the only thing Couturier is elite at.

I'm not even sure what you're disagreeing with. I never watched him in Brandon but have seen him play about 40 games for the Flyers.

His skating is average, first step is even below average. Hands and puck control are at minimum above average; he's not really a dangler but he's got great touch. We actually haven't seen much of his shot; he hasn't been able to create enough space for himself to blast one by a goalie and when he does, it's hit the post. His vision and passing are also at minimum above average and as I have said have shocked me as I didn't realize that was such a big part of his game.

All of that in a 6'2" package? That's easily a 2C in this league.

 

[Ainec]

ECHLers

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Patrick would have been drafted after Ehlers if they had their draft season CHL stats for the 2017 draft.

 

[mja]

Patrick would have been drafted after Ehlers if they had their draft season CHL stats for the 2017 draft.

Patrick barely even played his draft season, and when he did play, he was playing through misdiagnosed injuries.

Just watch him play. It’s extremely easy to see how well his skill set is going to translate at this level.

By the way, he scored a beauty of a goal tonight. Great little touch shot over Price off of a nice Giroux feed. That’s his 4th goal and 7th point in his last 11 games.

 

[The Rage Kage]

Patrick would have been drafted after Ehlers if they had their draft season CHL stats for the 2017 draft.

All you do is hop thread to thread hating on Patrick. Give it a f***ing rest.

 

[Sasso09]

I don't really agree with that. Saw him play for years in Brandon, very smart player but doesn't have enoih elite tools to get to an elite level imo.

Average skating
Above average hands and puck control
Above average but not elite shot
Above average vision and passing.
Hockey sense and smarts is the only thing I'd say he's elite at.

"Above average vision"? The kids vision is as good as anyone on the team not named Giroux, already at just 19


There's no doubt Patrick has more tools than Couturier imo, but I doubt he'll ever be as good as Couturier currently is at a PPG with top 3 defense in the game. . But there's not many players that can claim to be.

 

[Sasso09]

Ehlers setting a really high bar. High enough that expecting any young player to surpass it is a stretch. It's not impossible they do, but it's beyond what you should expect for almost any young player.

Not really. I fully expect Patrick to be better and it shouldn't be a stretch for a guy drafted #2 and was supposed to be #1 for 2 years leading up to his draft year

 

[Sasso09]

All you do is hop thread to thread hating on Patrick. Give it a ****ing rest.

Kid has an inferiority complex, let him vent

 

[HyPnOtiK]

If Patrick doesn't end up better than Ehlers he's underachieving to be frank. Ehlers isn't exactly Barzal.

 

[libertarian]

This may be a shock - most prospects do not produce in their rookie season.

Crazy I know

If you want to draft and develop to make your team a contender you can't forget the DEVELOPMENT part of the equation. Having NP in Jr one more year to get healthy and a year older before he starts his rookie year in the NHL would probably equal a much better rookie year for NP which would only help the Flyers next season.

 

[mja]

If you want to draft and develop to make your team a contender you can't forget the DEVELOPMENT part of the equation. Having NP in Jr one more year to get healthy and a year older before he starts his rookie year in the NHL would probably equal a much better rookie year for NP which would only help the Flyers next season.

God, people keep saying this, and it's all lazy assumption that just illustrates how little people actually watch guys who don't play on their team.

Patrick was fine in the beginning and was easily one of the 12 best forwards in the organization. He played fine getting bottom 6 minutes. Then he got a concussion and really struggled for a month or so. Since the calendar flipped into 2018 he's been easily one of the Flyers best 6 forwards, playing 2C and frankly outplaying Voracek & Simmonds on a team that's been scorching hot and threatening for the division lead after being counted out earlier in the season. He has 4 G and 3 A in his last 11 games.

He's developing nicely. Really nicely, in fact.

 

[The Rage Kage]

He has earned his role as a second line center on a team that has been on over a 100 point pace since December. Hes learning more and getting better experience in this playoff push than he would in juniors.