Recalled/Assigned: Edvinsson, Berggren & others sent to GR

[haulinbass]

Then shut the board down if all it will be is 'The Wings did it therefore it's correct.'

Bro you got to stop on this. It's happened. It was always the most likely thing to happen. He will be here soon enough. Just because he isn't on opening night roster doesn't mean he isn't on the team this year.

Just let it go. Edvinsson will be just fine in the AHL he isn't going to die. What he now has being in NA is direct access to all of our scouts, trainers, coaches, etc. He will be watched and worked with much more closely than he would in the SHL. Now that he is here and playing NA style hockey they will be working with him go make the adjustments to play in NHL.

They want him on the team, they will be doing everything they can to get him there. He isn't just some random scrub that didn't make the team and they assigned somewhere. This is a guy they need and want to be a big part of this team going forward.

There is just no f***ing arguing that the AHL isn't a good development league for the NHL. Just give it up dude.

Yes, we were all optimistic we could see Edvinsson in the lineup right now. But this isn't the end of the world. We will see him soon enough.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Bro you got to stop on this. It's happened. It was always the most likely thing to happen. He will be here soon enough. Just because he isn't on opening night roster doesn't mean he isn't on the team this year.

Just let it go. Edvinsson will be just fine in the AHL he isn't going to die. What he now has being in NA is direct access to all of our scouts, trainers, coaches, etc. He will be watched and worked with much more closely than he would in the SHL. Now that he is here and playing NA style hockey they will be working with him go make the adjustments to play in NHL.

They want him on the team, they will be doing everything they can to get him there. He isn't just some random scrub that didn't make the team and they assigned somewhere. This is a guy they need and want to be a big part of this team going forward.

There is just no f***ing arguing that the AHL isn't a good development league for the NHL. Just give it up dude.

Yes, we were all optimistic we could see Edvinsson in the lineup right now. But this isn't the end of the world. We will see him soon enough.

Yes. This is what I agree with. And I heard Lalonde's interview about he and Yzerman think differently. Lalonde wants the best players right now, because he wants to win every single game. He wants the optimal roster he can have. Yzerman needs to look big picture and think about what's best for the 25-26 Wings. When they said that, it kinda gave me the feeling there are a couple guys Lalonde wants right now that Yzerman and his staff are putting the kibosh on. I wouldn't be surprised if one of those guys was Simon Edvinsson.

 

[Gniwder]

Day 1 Training Camp announcement - If you're waiver eligible and not on the 1st line, you're f***ed. Just how it is. Skate hard, but enjoy the buses in a few weeks.

Edvinsson can run up the ice every shift in the AHL (probably a safer play than trying to pass to anyone at that level). That is not going to be a reasonable estimate of what he can and can't do in the NHL. Which has been my point from day 1. The things he could get away with in Sweden and the things he'll get away with in the AHL are not things he can get away with in the NHL. That's all pace related. Playing Bobby Orr in the AHL is not going to prepare him for what he'll be doing in the NHL.

Makar would be a different player if he hadn't spent his second year in college. Then he joined the Avs in the playoffs and scored in his first game. So much for not learning anything playing against slower players....

Edvinsson needs to run up and down the ice and rack up points in the AHL. It's not like he lit it up in the SHL, absolutely nothing wrong with developing offense in a lower league. Plenty of top end players have spent partial or even full season in the AHL like Josi (full season), Karlsson (12 games), Carlson (over half season), Letang (10 games), and Fox freakin went to college for 3 years, McAvoy and Makar did 2 each.

Ed will probably get PP and PK time in GR, he doesn't need to be a 3rd pair getting limited ice time in the NHL, Your argument is absolutely absurd.

 

[norrisnick]

That's not what I'm saying. Hell, it's probably even likely that you're right and they're wrong. Edvinsson may be ready to jump in right now. But generally speaking, the NHL is not a learning league. It's pass/fail. It's why veteran players around the league continue to have jobs. It's why teams like the Edmonton Oilers pre-McDavid flopped hard even though they had undoubtedly more natural talent than most in the league.

You're free to be of the opinion that he's ready to go and he'll pick it up as he goes along. It's just wishful thinking because he looks as good as he does.

What I am saying is that even if you don't agree with how they're doing it, there is logic to starting a guy like Edvinsson in the AHL and "He'll learn and pick up the game as he goes along in the NHL" is not a good argument to keep him up. I don't always agree with what the Wings do. I do attempt to see the logic they're using in making their decisions though. And I get starting Edvinsson in the AHL to dominate and be groomed for running a D pair by himself.

I want more of a reason to keep Edvinsson in the league than "He's better than *insert bottom pairing D men". It's the same thing that I argued about when people lost their minds about Joakim Andersson being called up instead of Anthony Mantha in the Wings last playoff run. I want a guy to be ready to play the role I'm optimally looking at him for... because this team is bad. When you're the 01-02 Wings, you can start Pavel Datsyuk on the 4th line and it'll work fine because you need the absolute best players to make an immediate material impact. The Wings of 22-23 don't need that right this second at the risk of overexposing a kid.

He'll learn in the NHL is only the argument to those saying he's not polished enough yet. Everything he can theoretically learn in the AHL he can learn in the NHL better and quicker because the resources are better.

The main argument for keeping Simon in the NHL is that he's better than all but maybe 3 defensemen we currently have on the roster. There is zero reason he shouldn't slot into the 2nd pairing right now.

It's just a convoluted mess of arguments.

Point. - He's not good enough for the 2nd and we'd lose points that we need to compete for that playoff spot.
Rebuttal - Ok, put him on the 3rd pairing because he's better than what we have down there.

Point. - He won't learn getting 3rd pairing minutes.
Rebuttal - Ok, put him on the 2nd pairing.

Point - He needs to learn all these things to be the best player he can be.
Rebuttal - Ok, the best resources and teachers are in the NHL.

Point - Even Mo went to the AHL.
Rebuttal - Which at 18 coming out of the DEL was a step up. 19 coming out of the SHL is not a step up.

Point - Why subject him to a bad team in transition?
Rebuttal Then why would it matter if he plays on the 2nd pairing getting NHL experience in a low pressure situation since the points don't matter?

 

[norrisnick]

Bro you got to stop on this. It's happened. It was always the most likely thing to happen. He will be here soon enough. Just because he isn't on opening night roster doesn't mean he isn't on the team this year.

Just let it go. Edvinsson will be just fine in the AHL he isn't going to die. What he now has being in NA is direct access to all of our scouts, trainers, coaches, etc. He will be watched and worked with much more closely than he would in the SHL. Now that he is here and playing NA style hockey they will be working with him go make the adjustments to play in NHL.

They want him on the team, they will be doing everything they can to get him there. He isn't just some random scrub that didn't make the team and they assigned somewhere. This is a guy they need and want to be a big part of this team going forward.

There is just no f***ing arguing that the AHL isn't a good development league for the NHL. Just give it up dude.

Yes, we were all optimistic we could see Edvinsson in the lineup right now. But this isn't the end of the world. We will see him soon enough.

Who said anything about the end of the world? I'm providing commentary on a hockey forum on what I feel is a bad decision for the team. That's what 90% of the posts on here are. If you guys don't want any debate, don't debate.

 

[13to40]

It's only an issue in your mind. NHL GMs are not in a rush to throw 19 YO prospects into the league.

Quit throwing a hissy fit, lol. Rebuild is a long process. It's not even close to being done yet.

Another way to view this: would you rather big Simon have a more important role in the AHL and gain important experience being one of the main pieces on the backend, or would you rather him play minimal, sheltered minutes on the Wings team.

I’m not a professional scout or anything, but I tend to agree that he will benefit way more from playing a bigger role in the AHL vs playing minimal minutes on the wings.

This franchise used to be known for over-ripening it’s prospects. I always appreciated that approach for 9/10 cases. Don’t mind them retaking that approach.

 

[Winger98]

Imagine how much better Seider could have been if he hadn't wasted that age 19 season in a league so clearly below his abilities. We really screwed that one up.

 

[sepster]

There is definitely something to be said for making your point and moving on......

 

[norrisnick]

Makar would be a different player if he hadn't spent his second year in college. Then he joined the Avs in the playoffs and scored in his first game. So much for not learning anything playing against slower players....

Edvinsson needs to run up and down the ice and rack up points in the AHL. It's not like he lit it up in the SHL, absolutely nothing wrong with developing offense in a lower league. Plenty of top end players have spent partial or even full season in the AHL like Josi (full season), Karlsson (12 games), Carlson (over half season), Letang (10 games), and Fox freakin went to college for 3 years, McAvoy and Makar did 2 each.

Ed will probably get PP and PK time in GR, he doesn't need to be a 3rd pair getting limited ice time in the NHL, Your argument is absolutely absurd.

Then don't give him 3rd pairing time. It's like there's this obvious solution to everything that most people aren't considering... Hm...

 

[Gniwder]

There is definitely something to be said for making your point and moving on......

No there isn't. Zadina sucks.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Makar would be a different player if he hadn't spent his second year in college. Then he joined the Avs in the playoffs and scored in his first game. So much for not learning anything playing against slower players....

Edvinsson needs to run up and down the ice and rack up points in the AHL. It's not like he lit it up in the SHL, absolutely nothing wrong with developing offense in a lower league. Plenty of top end players have spent partial or even full season in the AHL like Josi (full season), Karlsson (12 games), Carlson (over half season), Letang (10 games), and Fox freakin went to college for 3 years, McAvoy and Makar did 2 each.

Ed will probably get PP and PK time in GR, he doesn't need to be a 3rd pair getting limited ice time in the NHL, Your argument is absolutely absurd.

Relative to his age and to the leage, Edvinsson had a great offensive season in the SHL last year.

Don't be like that guy on the mains arguing the 21 goals Elmer scored in the SHL last year wasn't much. Be like water, my son.

 

[norrisnick]

Relative to his age and to the leage, Edvinsson had a great offensive season in the SHL last year.

Don't be like that guy on the mains arguing the 21 goals Elmer scored in the SHL last year wasn't much. Be like water, my son.

Simon's SHL season is remarkably close to what Hedman did over there.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Simon's SHL season is remarkably close to what Hedman did over there.

If Edvinsson is half as good as you make him out to be, he should have no issue forcing his way onto the roster within a month. And if he doesn't do that, then maybe you need to bite your tongue for a bit.

 

[norrisnick]

If Edvinsson is half as good as you make him out to be, he should have no issue forcing his way onto the roster within a month. And if he doesn't do that, then maybe you need to bite your tongue for a bit.

Good luck forcing much of anything in the AHL when he was already top 4 in preseason. They don't want him up. They aren't correct in doing so, but I doubt his play in the AHL will be changing anything.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

The main argument for keeping Simon in the NHL is that he's better than all but maybe 3 defensemen we currently have on the roster. There is zero reason he shouldn't slot into the 2nd pairing right now.

It's just a convoluted mess of arguments.

Point. - He's not good enough for the 2nd and we'd lose points that we need to compete for that playoff spot.
Rebuttal - Ok, put him on the 3rd pairing because he's better than what we have down there.

Point. - He won't learn getting 3rd pairing minutes.
Rebuttal - Ok, put him on the 2nd pairing.

Point - He needs to learn all these things to be the best player he can be.
Rebuttal - Ok, the best resources and teachers are in the NHL.

Point - Even Mo went to the AHL.
Rebuttal - Which at 18 coming out of the DEL was a step up. 19 coming out of the SHL is not a step up.

Point - Why subject him to a bad team in transition?
Rebuttal Then why would it matter if he plays on the 2nd pairing getting NHL experience in a low pressure situation since the points don't matter?

It is a convoluted mess of arguments because you are choosing to make it a convoluted mess of arguments. Point 1 and 2 contradict each other. They're not a valid, coherent argument.

Point 3... yep, the resources are the best at the NHL level. They also will not all be used for the greater glory of Simon Edvinsson. And you've seen with guys like Rasmussen, Zadina, and Jurco that bringing a guy up before he's ready for the pace of the league results in that guy wildly underperforming. He does not magically acclimate to the speed of the league if he's coming in and it's too fast for him. It slows down when you're routinely making the right plays. Just like you wouldn't hop on a treadmill actively going 12 mph if you're just starting out but you can do so after you've worked up to that level

Point 4, how he played in the preseason begs to differ. It's definitely still a step up.

Point 5, because dropping players on bad teams with other guys who struggle with their tasks is a fantastic way to develop terrible habits. It's the NHL. There isn't a "low pressure" situation in the league. The low pressure situation is to play in the developmental league.

 

[Gniwder]

Relative to his age and to the leage, Edvinsson had a great offensive season in the SHL last year.

Don't be like that guy on the mains arguing the 21 goals Elmer scored in the SHL last year wasn't much. Be like water, my son.

The NHL doesn't cut you slack because of your age. Plus from what I saw, most of his points were from some nice outlet and saucer passes, and he struggled with that preseason. There's less forechecking in the SHL compared to NA.

SHL players are smaller and weaker than NHL players, but Elmer is so freakin big it might not matter. Even NHL defensemen have to adjust to someone that size. I thought he'd wind up in GR as well for special teams time. but if Lalonde thinks Elmer is gonna help him win games, then I'll go with his decision. It's not like he's playing a top 6 role, but it'd be nice to see him get a chance at the net front role screening the goalie.

 

[Hen Kolland]

Good luck forcing much of anything in the AHL when he was already top 4 in preseason. They don't want him up. They aren't correct in doing so, but I doubt his play in the AHL will be changing anything.

He hurt the team just as much, if not more, than he helped the team in particular moments. I don't disagree that he is plenty capable of playing on the team right now, but if he can't control the yin and yang of his game presently, then he wouldn't be playing based on merit, just hope and hype.

His f*** ups are plenty fixable in the AHL. The NHL pace and skill level are not the solution to his current problems.

 

[norrisnick]

It is a convoluted mess of arguments because you are choosing to make it a convoluted mess of arguments. Point 1 and 2 contradict each other. They're not a valid, coherent argument.

Point 3... yep, the resources are the best at the NHL level. They also will not all be used for the greater glory of Simon Edvinsson. And you've seen with guys like Rasmussen, Zadina, and Jurco that bringing a guy up before he's ready for the pace of the league results in that guy wildly underperforming. He does not magically acclimate to the speed of the league if he's coming in and it's too fast for him. It slows down when you're routinely making the right plays. Just like you wouldn't hop on a treadmill actively going 12 mph if you're just starting out but you can do so after you've worked up to that level

Point 4, how he played in the preseason begs to differ. It's definitely still a step up.

Point 5, because dropping players on bad teams with other guys who struggle with their tasks is a fantastic way to develop terrible habits. It's the NHL. There isn't a "low pressure" situation in the league. The low pressure situation is to play in the developmental league.

That's my point, dude.

3. Can you find the common thread between Rasmussen, Zadina, and Jurco?

4. How he played in the preseason showed he's perfectly fine playing in the NHL at least on a roster like ours.

5. So what would you call an AHL team besides a bad team with other guys that struggle? It's 100 times more likely to develop a bad habit in the AHL vs the NHL because in the AHL you can get away with it. And 15-20 minutes on a bottom third team is definitely low pressure. He's not being asked to carry any part of the team, not ES, not PP, not PK. He can slot in as the 3rd guy.

He hurt the team just as much, if not more, than he helped the team in particular moments. I don't disagree that he is plenty capable of playing on the team right now, but if he can't control the yin and yang of his game presently, then he wouldn't be playing based on merit, just hope and hype.

His f*** ups are plenty fixable in the AHL. The NHL pace and skill level are not the solution to his current problems.

Not when the pace of the NHL are the cause of his f*** ups. If he's not forced to go fast, he's not going to learn how to go fast.

 

[Ricelund]

Aren't these the same guys that everyone here is saying are making a mistake with someone? Be it Zadina, or Veleno, or Rasmussen, or Erne, or Oesterle, or whoever.

If you are making this appeal you'd better be on board with all of the decisions all of the time.

No, I don't agree with them all the time. I'm just not worried about Edvinsson not being on the team at this point. They could call him up in two weeks.

 

[Hen Kolland]

That's my point, dude.

3. Can you find the common thread between Rasmussen, Zadina, and Jurco?

4. How he played in the preseason showed he's perfectly fine playing in the NHL at least on a roster like ours.

5. So what would you call an AHL team besides a bad team with other guys that struggle? It's 100 times more likely to develop a bad habit in the AHL vs the NHL because in the AHL you can get away with it. And 15-20 minutes on a bottom third team is definitely low pressure. He's not being asked to carry any part of the team, not ES, not PP, not PK. He can slot in as the 3rd guy.


Not when the pace of the NHL are the cause of his f*** ups. If he's not forced to go fast, he's not going to learn how to go fast.

The pace weren't the cause of his f*** ups though. It is deeper than that.

 

[Tetsuo]

I was definitely in favor of Ed making the team because, to be quite honest, he looked like he belonged. However, he's still only 19 and definitely has a lot of developing left to do. He's a tremendous talent and getting some time to simply adjust to the NA ice while playing big minutes is far from the worst case. He's also liable to be an injury call up or even get a 9 game stint at the back end of the season.

What I'm really not pleased with is the fact that Berggren didn't make the team. To me, it feels like he's more than ready and has done everything you'd want to see for a guy of his skill and talent to this point. He's had two tremendous seasons in the SHL and AHL and has really added more grit, strength and overall gumption to his game, to pair with his high IQ. He's going to be a very valuable NHLer for a long time as a PP specialist and middle 6 set up man, which is something we don't have enough of at this point - he can actually set up teammates at a high level.

That said, the Towering Behemoth definitely earned his spot too, and oh boy does Elmer look special. Can't have everything I guess.

 

[Kingpin794]

I was definitely in favor of Ed making the team because, to be quite honest, he looked like he belonged. However, he's still only 19 and definitely has a lot of developing left to do. He's a tremendous talent and getting some time to simply adjust to the NA ice while playing big minutes is far from the worst case. He's also liable to be an injury call up or even get a 9 game stint at the back end of the season.

What I'm really not pleased with is the fact that Berggren didn't make the team. To me, it feels like he's more than ready and has done everything you'd want to see for a guy of his skill and talent to this point. He's had two tremendous seasons in the SHL and AHL and has really added more grit, strength and overall gumption to his game, to pair with his high IQ. He's going to be a very valuable NHLer for a long time as a PP specialist and middle 6 set up man, which is something we don't have enough of at this point - he can actually set up teammates at a high level.

That said, the Towering Behemoth definitely earned his spot too, and oh boy does Elmer look special. Can't have everything I guess.

With you on Berggren. Thought him and Veleno did all they needed to do for GR. Berggren will work his way back up but I don't know about Veleno long term now. Seems like he might carve himself out a nice little career for someone else especially now that Kasper is in the system.

 

[haulinbass]

Who said anything about the end of the world? I'm providing commentary on a hockey forum on what I feel is a bad decision for the team. That's what 90% of the posts on here are. If you guys don't want any debate, don't debate.

Its the fact that every other post in this thread is about you saying the same thing over and over for pages on end. You aren't here for a debate, you seem to be here until everyone literally just gives up and goes away. Nobody is going to give up because you are right only simply because you just made everyone realize that argueing with you is a lost cause. What your "debating" I am pretty sure literally 0 people agree with you, which is extremely rare around here. This isn't a 90% to 10% split on opinions, its 99.9% and then there is you. Everyone else seems to understand everything is OK and Edvinsson will get the reps and oppertunity he needs in GR to grow. Some people may not particularly like it and want to see him with Detroit, but unlike you understand and accept that it's not some cancer to his growth as a player.

Sorry, I gave you like 4 very soft responses prior to this. Somebody has to be the bad guy and say it at this point. Just give this one up, log off the internet for a couple hours, get some fresh air and take a break.

 

[norrisnick]

Its the fact that every other post in this thread is about you saying the same thing over and over for pages on end. You aren't here for a debate, you seem to be here until everyone literally just gives up and goes away. Nobody is going to give up because you are right only simply because you just made everyone realize that argueing with you is a lost cause. What your "debating" I am pretty sure literally 0 people agree with you, which is extremely rare around here. This isn't a 90% to 10% split on opinions, its 99.9% and then there is you. Everyone else seems to understand everything is OK and Edvinsson will get the reps and oppertunity he needs in GR to grow. Some people may not particularly like it and want to see him with Detroit, but unlike you understand and accept that it's not some cancer to his growth as a player.

Sorry, I gave you like 4 very soft responses prior to this. Somebody has to be the bad guy and say it at this point. Just give this one up, log off the internet for a couple hours, get some fresh air and take a break.

No.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Relative to his age and to the leage, Edvinsson had a great offensive season in the SHL last year.

Eh, only like, the 3rd best season of all time.