Pre-Game Talk: Edmonton Oilers Play-In Series Extravaganza

ColbyChaos

Marty Snoozeman's Father
Sep 27, 2017
6,229
6,529
Will County
The window is closing. There was pressure to make the playoffs (from the FO and season ticket holders). If all went to plan, the Hawks might be ready to contend next season.

Full blown rebuild was/is an option. Bowman didn't go that route. FWLIW, I support that (overhaul on the fly).

Carping about the Danault trade (which, admittedly, sucked), when we're debating Bowman's offseason moves, shows your true colors.

what true colors? You’re acting like trading young guys with promise for two washed up bums is a good thing to do.

this team should be getting younger and do literally what made them successful in the first place and that is by building through the draft. Taking in high salary players with limited upside is only going to continue sinking the team and take away even more young talent that is actually helping this team
 

bwana63

carter blanche
Jul 11, 2014
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Chi western burbs
what true colors? You’re acting like trading young guys with promise for two washed up bums is a good thing to do.

this team should be getting younger and do literally what made them successful in the first place and that is by building through the draft. Taking in high salary players with limited upside is only going to continue sinking the team and take away even more young talent that is actually helping this team

This team is one of the youngest in the "playoffs" (despite having Keith, Toews and Kane).

Loading up for a Cup is worlds apart from building a playoff team. Keep grinding (your ax). Timonen was a bad trade too, lol.
 

Kaners PPGs

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
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This team is one of the youngest in the "playoffs" (despite having Keith, Toews and Kane).

Loading up for a Cup is worlds apart from building a playoff team. Keep grinding (your ax). Timonen was a bad trade too, lol.

But they still need a couple more dominant young players. Maybe they get one in the draft this year but you still need at least another lottery pick probably 2.
 

bwana63

carter blanche
Jul 11, 2014
5,396
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Chi western burbs
But they still need a couple more dominant young players. Maybe they get one in the draft this year but you still need at least another lottery pick probably 2.

Most likely, yes. However, another Pararin would fit the bill too. But to your point, yeah, we need to keep building. The end goal isn't a playoff team.

Some really huge development years coming for our kids.
 

Kaners PPGs

Registered User
Jun 2, 2012
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Most likely, yes. However, another Pararin would fit the bill too. But to your point, yeah, we need to keep building. The end goal isn't a playoff team.

Some really huge development years coming for our kids.

Agreed. There’s all sorts of examples of getting elite players later in the draft but the best odds are getting them with top picks. We’ve all seen the graphs showing average production from draft pick slots. But it would be nice to get lucky too.
 

bwana63

carter blanche
Jul 11, 2014
5,396
4,339
Chi western burbs
Agreed. There’s all sorts of examples of getting elite players later in the draft but the best odds are getting them with top picks. We’ve all seen the graphs showing average production from draft pick slots. But it would be nice to get lucky too.

We can't depend on very high draft picks, not solely, anyway. We have to use every avenue available. And, FWIW, I think we've done pretty damn good there. The Euro FAs are obviously exhibit A.

The Nylander trade may end up as a great win. Parlaying a good, young prospect for a better one.

As for lucky, we hit the jackpot with Dach. Lightning doesn't hit the same spot twice (or does it? lol).
 
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Brightwing

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Oct 1, 2019
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Agreed. There’s all sorts of examples of getting elite players later in the draft but the best odds are getting them with top picks. We’ve all seen the graphs showing average production from draft pick slots. But it would be nice to get lucky too.

DeBrincat and Kubalik are the equivalent of top 10 picks. Mitchell may end up being the equivalent of a high pick. We have Dach, Boqvist, Strome and Nylander who were all top 10 picks. The latter two haven't lived up to their full potential but they're getting there.

We have have a rally solid youth team and what we have in the system and our picks in the next couple of years will compliment that. What this team needs is a bit more time but we can't say we were standing still this past year. Our young players were developping. There's a lot of reasons for optimism.

This team actually knows how to develop young players. That's crucial.
 

Blue Liner

Registered User
Dec 12, 2009
10,332
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Chicago
DeBrincat and Kubalik are the equivalent of top 10 picks. Mitchell may end up being the equivalent of a high pick. We have Dach, Boqvist, Strome and Nylander who were all top 10 picks. The latter two haven't lived up to their full potential but they're getting there.

We have have a rally solid youth team and what we have in the system and our picks in the next couple of years will compliment that. What this team needs is a bit more time but we can't say we were standing still this past year. Our young players were developping. There's a lot of reasons for optimism.

This team actually knows how to develop young players. That's crucial
.

They need to prove they can develop young defensemen. (I think they can/will).
 

BobbyJet

The accountability era?
Oct 27, 2010
29,974
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Dundas, Ontario. Can
So we have hockey again eh???

Welp, let's try not to f*** this up too badly boys...

I have no idea of what to expect in this series. On paper, Hawks should be able to beat Oilers pretty handily if they stay out of the box ..... or at least give Oilers all they can handle and take it to 5 games but who knows. This series and Hawks season might be over on August 5.
 

Kevin Musto

Hard for Bedard
Feb 16, 2018
21,357
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Kind of my point. Hjalmarsson was basically the last drafted, homegrown d-man to come through. The lack of that since has been beaten like a dead horse but thought it was relevant to the post.
Yeah it almost seems like the developing wasn't the problem, but rather the drafting of defenders. We just weren't drafting guys with potential to work with.

Graham Knott over Vince Dunn will always be the most puzzling one cause they played on the same team and Dunn was clearly better.
 

Kaners PPGs

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Jun 2, 2012
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DeBrincat and Kubalik are the equivalent of top 10 picks. Mitchell may end up being the equivalent of a high pick. We have Dach, Boqvist, Strome and Nylander who were all top 10 picks. The latter two haven't lived up to their full potential but they're getting there.

We have have a rally solid youth team and what we have in the system and our picks in the next couple of years will compliment that. What this team needs is a bit more time but we can't say we were standing still this past year. Our young players were developping. There's a lot of reasons for optimism.

This team actually knows how to develop young players. That's crucial.

I agree with everything you wrote but my question is how good do you think this collection of young players can be? Even if the majority of them reach their potential, it is not a Cup contender IMO. You note the players picked in the top 10 but the Hawks need more stars.

Look at the last 10 Cup teams. Now St Louis won without any clear-cut HOF players (Probably Pietrangelo but HOF voting is weird) but they had great depth and were very good everywhere. Plus, they barely won and might have been the weakest Cup winner of the decade. The rest of the decade was the Hawks with their 3 HOFers in their prime, near-prime Hossa, and crazy depth every year they won. Pittsburgh with their two generational talents. LA with prime Doughty, Kopitar, Quick, and a very deep, solid team. Boston had a Vezina-winning Thomas, prime Chara, and a very deep roster. Washington had Ovie, Kuznetzov, Backstrom, Carlson.

That trip down memory lane was to remind us that the vast majority of Cup winning teams have a couple HOF players in their prime. If the Hawks want to get back to contending for a Cup they will need a couple more elite, difference-making players. If Dach turns into Getzlaf that is definitely a big piece but you still need quite a bit more. You need at least 1 more top pairing dman to go with Boqvist. Musto is sure that Mitchell is that guy but odds are that he's a 2nd pairing guy. Was this year an anomaly and Debrincat turns back into the player we thought would push for 40 goals? Kubalik looks to be a nice top 6 winger. Strome looks to be a mediocre or less #2C which is valuable but nothing to get too excited about. And I am definitely not going to overreact to a nice couple scrimmages from Nylander. All this leads back to my thinking that the Hawks need a couple more elite, star, players to get back to being a contender. The best place to find those players are at the top of the draft.




 
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Brightwing

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Oct 1, 2019
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I agree with everything you wrote but my question is how good do you think this collection of young players can be? Even if the majority of them reach their potential, it is not a Cup contender IMO. You note the players picked in the top 10 but the Hawks need more stars.

Look at the last 10 Cup teams. Now St Louis won without any clear-cut HOF players (Probably Pietrangelo but HOF voting is weird) but they had great depth and were very good everywhere. Plus, they barely won and might have been the weakest Cup winner of the decade. The rest of the decade was the Hawks with their 3 HOFers in their prime, near-prime Hossa, and crazy depth every year they won. Pittsburgh with their two generational talents. LA with prime Doughty, Kopitar, Quick, and a very deep, solid team. Boston had a Vezina-winning Thomas, prime Chara, and a very deep roster. Washington had Ovie, Kuznetzov, Backstrom, Carlson.

That trip down memory lane was to remind us that the vast majority of Cup winning teams have a couple HOF players in their prime. If the Hawks want to get back to contending for a Cup they will need a couple more elite, difference-making players. If Dach turns into Getzlaf that is definitely a big piece but you still need quite a bit more. You need at least 1 more top pairing dman to go with Boqvist. Musto is sure that Mitchell is that guy but odds are that he's a 2nd pairing guy. Was this year an anomaly and Debrincat turns back into the player we thought would push for 40 goals? Kubalik looks to be a nice top 6 winger. Strome looks to be a mediocre or less #2C which is valuable but nothing to get too excited about. And I am definitely not going to overreact to a nice couple scrimmages from Nylander. All this leads back to my thinking that the Hawks need a couple more elite, star, players to get back to being a contender. The best place to find those players are at the top of the draft.

I understand what you're saying but I think it's too soon to tell what we have. In 2010 and even 2013 did we know Kane was likely the best American to ever play the game?

And here's an interesting stat: the most recent first overall pick to win the Stanley Cup is Patrick Kane.

So I looked a little further.

The most recent 2OA is 2010 draft pick Tyler Seguin and the most recent 3OA pick to win a cup is Toews. In fact Seguin is the most recent top 10 pick to win a cup.

Now we will see what happens in the future and as important as stars are there are other factors to building a balanced team. I suspect Colorado will get there with their young stars and maybe Edmonton but it's by no means guaranteed.

What the Hawks did in 2010 with their young stars bringing home the cup was exceptional.
 

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