Proposal: EDM/Tor

Namikaze Minato

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
4,916
6,186
Beautiful B.C.
I don't get your point. I said RNH was closer in value to Nylander than Garinder. I think most neutral people would agree. I'm not saying it would be a good trade for anyone or anything.
he's not though. He's never hit 60 points in his career and nylander has done it in his first two seasons. Nylander is younger with much higher offensive potential, still could be a center as Babcock has been grooming him and is an RFA giving him long term team control if played correctly. RNH is a 3C they are hoping to play winger with mcdavid so they can inflate his stats and say "see! Told you he was good!"

RNH likely has around or less than Stastny value. Not a 22 year old back to back 60 point scorer.
 

Namikaze Minato

Registered User
Apr 30, 2009
4,916
6,186
Beautiful B.C.
Could be worse... you could be getting "it's gonna cost Drai or that guy I shouldn't mention... Ok, I meant McD"

At least you are still getting comments about your 3rd or 4th best players.
we definitely still get that too! If they think the player has more value than Willy it automatically becomes "marner ++ or Matthews+!!"

Everybody always has to win the trade no matter what. Its why this board is more of a running joke than a serious hockey forum.
 

Notsince67

Papi and the Lamplighters
Apr 27, 2018
16,087
11,293
Brutal for the guys in Orange. Think closer to Nylander than Garinder for RNH
Pretty close? There isn't a GM in the world who wouldnt take Nylaner of RNH.
"Its gonna cost nylander"
-HF boards regarding any leafs trade.

Classic, 10/10 proposal.

OK...let me try....
I'll trade Nylander to Edmonton. Think closer to Darnell Nurse + Jesse Puljujarvi than RNH
 

TFHockey

The CEO of 7-8-0
May 16, 2014
7,061
4,456
Edmonton
Pretty close? There isn't a GM in the world who wouldnt take Nylaner of RNH.


OK...let me try....
I'll trade Nylander to Edmonton. Think closer to Darnell Nurse + Jesse Puljujarvi than RNH

Edmonton is not in a position to deal Nurse. Our defense is weak already.
 

StephenPeat

Registered User
Jul 19, 2015
4,651
1,616
There are worse things then losing in a hard fought 7 game series after being down 3-1 in the series. Focusing on one game is being shallow minded.
Oh we’re focusing on more than one game now? I was certain that’s what we were doing because that’s the only way anyone could come to the conclusion that Gardiner is better defensively than literally anyone else, even players of other positions.
 

Atomos2

Registered User
Jun 28, 2012
16,513
2,754
Toronto, Ontario
Oh we’re focusing on more than one game now? I was certain that’s what we were doing because that’s the only way anyone could come to the conclusion that Gardiner is better defensively than literally anyone else, even players of other positions.
One would assume the ice-time leader for the 7th best team in the NHL the past season (and 11th in goals against) would have some positive effect on that team's defence. But hey, if you think RNH can change positions and suit up on the back end, all power to you. HF runs on 40% hope, 40% delusions and 20% logic. So all power to you.
 

StephenPeat

Registered User
Jul 19, 2015
4,651
1,616
One would assume the ice-time leader for the 7th best team in the NHL the past season (and 11th in goals against) would have some positive effect on that team's defence. But hey, if you think RNH can change positions and suit up on the back end, all power to you. HF runs on 40% hope, 40% delusions and 20% logic. So all power to you.
Marc-Edouard Vlasic played basically the same minutes and the Sharks were the 10th best team in the league and were 10th in goals against. I suppose this means these are similar players defensively? Perhaps, in fact, these metrics you have arbitrarily chosen have actually very little to do with how good Gardiner is defensively?
 

hockeyguy1967

Trans hockey fan! Go Leafs and Oilers!
Aug 24, 2017
2,290
1,159
Yeah, Last thing the Leafs need is another Center. Gardiner's value is not close to RNH either.
 

Liferleafer

TSN Scrum Lurker
Feb 9, 2011
39,848
13,005
Yeah, Last thing the Leafs need is another Center. Gardiner's value is not close to RNH either.
While i agree, as a Leafs fan, this statement kind of bothers me. When we Leafs fans are on this site proposing for defense, the asking price is always astronomical....and backed up by the old Larsson/Hall standard. Now here we are talking about a 27 year old 40-50 point Dman for a 25 year old 45-55 point center and we are being told the value leans heavily towards the forward?
 

Atomos2

Registered User
Jun 28, 2012
16,513
2,754
Toronto, Ontario
Marc-Edouard Vlasic played basically the same minutes and the Sharks were the 10th best team in the league and were 10th in goals against. I suppose this means these are similar players defensively? Perhaps, in fact, these metrics you have arbitrarily chosen have actually very little to do with how good Gardiner is defensively?
Ok, I'll bite. Enlighten me. Please tell me how you would spin the 50+ point defenceman, ice time leader of the 7th place Maple Leafs into a defensive liability who is not as good defensively as a 2nd line centre of a bottom 10 team. Then let me know the experience RNH has at being a defenceman.

And if you use a crappy argument like uhh uhh...game 7. You're not getting a serious response back.
 

Kamiccolo

Truly wonderful, the mind of a child is.
Aug 30, 2011
26,828
16,944
Undisclosed research facility
Ok, I'll bite. Enlighten me. Please tell me how you would spin the 50+ point defenceman, ice time leader of the 7th place Maple Leafs into a defensive liability who is not as good defensively as a 2nd line centre of a bottom 10 team. Then let me know the experience RNH has at being a defenceman.

And if you use a crappy argument like uhh uhh...game 7. You're not getting a serious response back.

I have learned not to bother with Oilers fans. It's been like this since I joined, they have always been miles ahead than the Leafs. That is obviously true for some aspects over the years but they as a group would never admit the Leafs are better. It's like a rivalry or something to them.

Actually it's like that with all of western Canada hockey fans.
 

hockeyguy1967

Trans hockey fan! Go Leafs and Oilers!
Aug 24, 2017
2,290
1,159
I have learned not to bother with Oilers fans. It's been like this since I joined, they have always been miles ahead than the Leafs. That is obviously true for some aspects over the years but they as a group would never admit the Leafs are better. It's like a rivalry or something to them.

Actually it's like that with all of western Canada hockey fans.
1967
 

Liferleafer

TSN Scrum Lurker
Feb 9, 2011
39,848
13,005
sure. that seems like a reasonable price. he also isn't long term (3 years after this one). we won't get tavares and we get rid of gardener so this offer is spectacular for me
Excellent, so now we have a 6 million dollar #3C...and are down yet another top 4D.
 

rent free

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
20,427
6,114
Excellent, so now we have a 6 million dollar #3C...and are down yet another top 4D.
its time to move on from gardiner. its best we send him out west. dermott will take his place. having a center depth of rnh kadri and matthews would be amazing and too good to pass on
 

Liferleafer

TSN Scrum Lurker
Feb 9, 2011
39,848
13,005
its time to move on from gardiner. its best we send him out west. dermott will take his place. having a center depth of rnh kadri and matthews would be amazing and too good to pass on
Uh huh, so our defense becomes:

Rielly-Hainsey (Hainsey burned out last year)
Dermott-Zaitsev
???-???

Should work out great.....:thumbd:
 

rent free

Registered User
Apr 6, 2015
20,427
6,114
So De-Hann gets top pair and Liljegren is a shoe in as a rookie? Ya, that should work swimmingly.
de haan at top pair is better than anyone else at top pair. the bottom pair rhd doesn't really matter as long as it's someone serviceable and not carrick/polak
 

ChaoticOrange

Registered User
Jun 29, 2008
50,588
29,274
Edmonton
While i agree, as a Leafs fan, this statement kind of bothers me. When we Leafs fans are on this site proposing for defense, the asking price is always astronomical....and backed up by the old Larsson/Hall standard. Now here we are talking about a 27 year old 40-50 point Dman for a 25 year old 45-55 point center and we are being told the value leans heavily towards the forward?

Yes.

Edmonton would be looking at Gardiner purely as a rental and one that doesn’t fill a positional need for us. We need RHD.

On top of that, OP is asking for a player that we have absolutely no desire to move. None.

Effectively by asking for RNH youre asking Edmonton to remove one of only three forwards we have that we can count on to produce and be responsible defensively, and you’re asking us to move this player for one year of Jake Gardiner, who would do nothing but add to our glut of LHD.

Some might say he can play the right side. Wonderful. We already have Russell playing the right side.

Some might say once we have Gardiner we can re-sign him and trade one of our other D for forward help. That seems like a lot of gambles and maybes to shoehorn in a guy we don’t overly want in the first place.

In summary.

You’re trying to trade an ~80 point team a rental.

Said rental is not the handedness we want.

Said rental has some fairly major defensive issues.

You’re asking for a piece we cannot afford to lose in return.

Rental offensive defencemen do not return core pieces. Look no further than Kevin Shattenkirk last year to see how most of the league would value Gardiner.

300+ games of RNH >>>> 82 games of Gardiner. Whatever other mental gymnastics you need to do to convince yourself that this is somehow bad for Toronto be my guest, but trust me when I tell you that no Oiler fan anywhere wants any part of shipping RNH out for what would amount to Gardiner’s 2018 trade deadline return of a low first and some spare parts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElPrimeTime

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad