Post-Game Talk: ECSF Gm 7 | FLYERS (H) vs. Islanders (A) | Sat., Sep. 5, 2020

bobbythebrain

Registered User
Jul 30, 2016
13,592
12,967
This fanatical devotion to handedness has been a dead theory since the '50s when Montreal won a playoff game and series by constructing a set play (that resulted in a goal) that ignored conventional handedness theory and instead put players in the best position to set up a play and succeed. It was hailed as revolutionary coaching genius, this notion that putting players where they are best is more important than adherence to old ideas and stereotypes.


But here we are, being the Flyers and dinosauring our way to failure. We're only 70 years out of date.


So why do some players prefer not to play on their offside?

You're also a big advocate on here about who should be where on the pp b/c of shooting, but you don't think this applies to having to retrieve pucks and pass on your backhand?
 

BackToTheBrierePatch

Nope not today.
Feb 19, 2003
66,263
24,651
Concord, New Hampshire
The only explanation is injury. Other than that, if Fletch doesn't at least ask the question about how this happened, then we all know accountability and common sense are out the window.

There very well be a discussion between Fletcher and AV but I doubt anything of value would be released to the media. We can only speculate what is said.
The anger of the series has passed for me. 20 years ago I would still be angry. Now it doesn’t last long. Call it old age.
 

bobbythebrain

Registered User
Jul 30, 2016
13,592
12,967
Who said they don’t like to? Probably depends on the individual player. Ghost has been great at RD throughout his career


You will find players who are comfortable with wherever they play, as you will find players who aren't

I was replying to Beefs notion that it's a bs logic, but many players have admitted to the contrary
 

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
128,084
165,994
Armored Train
So why do some players prefer not to play on their offside?

You're also a big advocate on here about who should be where on the pp b/c of shooting, but you don't think this applies to having to retrieve pucks and pass on your backhand?

The first priority should be putting players where they are at their best whether it matches their handedness or not. If a player is better going against their handedness but they're better that way, then that's how they should play.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Striiker

Beef Invictus

Revolutionary Positivity
Dec 21, 2009
128,084
165,994
Armored Train
You will find players who are comfortable with wherever they play, as you will find players who aren't

I was replying to Beefs notion that it's a bs logic, but many players have admitted to the contrary

I think you read my post completely wrong based on your replies here. What exactly do you think I said?
 

MattMartin

Killer Instinct™
Feb 10, 2007
17,611
10,197
Long Island
I came to say, I think you have a lot of strong young pieces and the team will be good for some time. I know some of you think I'm "trolling", but I can assure you, I'm not. I would have gladly rooted for you guys if you beat us. I don't have any hate for the Flyers. The Penguins, Caps, and Leafs on the other hand........

Edit: Would also like to add, neither of our fan bases have been blessed in forever. Neither of our teams were built by tanking like Pens and Laffs. Washington is just filled with dis likable players IMHO.
 
Last edited:

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Im about 1000% positive Ghost will have another few 50 point seasons after he is traded.

I'm not. What the last two seasons have shown is how limited Ghost is when his legs aren't 100%, he simply can't compensate without the lateral agility to buy space. Which means he's only as good as his health going forward, compare to say Couts who is still a top player at 80%.

Ghost lacks size, but also top end speed, he's really not that fast, I'd say he's our fourth fastest defenseman, and fifth behind Friedman.
What he had was the lateral agility to weave through the ice with the puck and avoid contact - lose that and he's a JAG.
And when his legs are off, so is his shot, it's not like he has a lot of upper body strength.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
By the way, there's a simple reason Voracek's ice time was limited - did you watch him skate in game 7.
Either he was dinged or his legs were dead from game 6, but he didn't look the same.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
I came to say, I think you have a lot of strong young pieces and the team will be good for some time. I know some of you think I'm "trolling", but I can assure you, I'm not. I would have gladly rooted for you guys if you beat us. I don't have any hate for the Flyers. The Penguins, Caps, and Leafs on the other hand........

Yeah, you have a good young goalie coming out of the KHL and a gem in Dobson, after that your talent pipeline is thin and you just traded a 1st and 2nd for Pageau. So I figure you have a 3 year window to win it all before Trotz decides to retire rather than preside over a rebuild. Because come 2022-23, the Islanders are going to be an old team.
 

MattMartin

Killer Instinct™
Feb 10, 2007
17,611
10,197
Long Island
Yeah, you have a good young goalie coming out of the KHL and a gem in Dobson, after that your talent pipeline is thin and you just traded a 1st and 2nd for Pageau. So I figure you have a 3 year window to win it all before Trotz decides to retire rather than preside over a rebuild. Because come 2022-23, the Islanders are going to be an old team.

We are definitely going to need to weed out some of the older players, no denying that. Also, I don't think we technically have a window (in terms of ), who would have thought we have gotten this far after Tavares left? If we happen to win anything, it won't be because we are the best team on paper by a country mile.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rebels57

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Therrien did the PP no favors, but it was struggling before him.
Once Schenn was traded and Simmonds fell off the cliff, the PP was in trouble, then Lindblom and Patrick went down.

I think there were also some other issues, Myers would be a better fit than Niskanen, but they may not have wanted to put anything else on his plate as a rookie defenseman, that should change next season. Provorov was much better in the playoffs than the regular season, maybe he's getting comfortable on the job.

I might consider Provorov/Ghost on one PP and Sanheim/Myers on the other, given our lack of shooters, Provorov and Myers probably have as good a chance of scoring as some of the forwards we've used, and would provide better protection against SH opportunities for the other team.
 

JABEE

Registered User
Feb 12, 2010
2,383
1,356
Philadelphia
Ghost is the best PP QB on the Flyers. Matt Niskanen is definitely not better.

What justification is there to bench Ghost when the PP has been as bad as it has been to keep the horrible third-pairing together?

It made absolutely no sense. The one game Gostisbehere played in had him responsible for one of the 4 PP goals they scored throughout the entire playoffs. A play created by him generating a zone-entry every other player on the team was being coached not to do.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
Ghost's xGF/60 this season was pretty mediocre, way down from his peak years.
Some is due to playing with a lot worse PP forwards, but that applies to all our defensemen on the PP.
Some is that Ghost's shot has gone south, some was the lack of lateral agility made it hard for him to make space.
 

Striiker

Earthquake Survivor
Jun 2, 2013
89,729
155,832
Pennsylvania
Dishonest people wont mention that Ghosts PP usage 1) was exclusively with the top unit while G and Jake we’re on the wrong sides, which we know for a fact ruins the whole unit, or 2) was with the 2nd unit, which got scrap time and had nobody on it who is a competent PP player.


He’s not the problem. His usage was.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: FLYERSFAN18

Garbage Goal

Registered User
Apr 1, 2009
22,699
4,591
The Flyers will likely add a healthy Lindblom, Patrick, Frost, Friedman, maybe a wild card like Laczynski. That’s not small potatoes. Guys like Farabee and Myers and Hart should only improve.

We should never have to see Thompson, Grant, and a slim chance of Hagg again. Hopefully, Therrien gets canned. I won’t get my hopes up about the last two because hockey.

Try not to f*** it up, Chuck Fletcher. If this postseason proved one thing, we need as much talent as possible to outplay less talented teams. This current product is not more than the sum of its parts. So better stock up on parts. Pretty much every chance Vigneault had to show himself a changed man proved a dud. Player performance was inconsistent, but this team as a whole was outplayed and outsmarted nightly. Approaching the off-season, doubling down on bad decisions — and finding some new ones — is what concerns me.

(Pleasure spending another season with you fascists).

I would be hesitant in saying Patrick will remain healthy or for very long. Wouldn’t be surprising to see a recurrence there.

Either way, the biggest impact players there are Myers and Hart. Maybe Patrick if everything goes well in terms of injury and development.

The worrisome thing for me, in terms of roster construction, is the same problem they’ve faced ever since they dealt away Carter/Richards. They essentially have two cores here. A long-term one that’s still wait-and-see to some extent and a short-term one pushing into their 30’s that hasn’t gone the distance yet. The underlying problem there being that most of our forward group is in their declining years and on the 30+ side. Most of our impact youth is in the net out short of Frost, Patrick, and Farabee all taking big strides in the near future. Even if they do, I don’t see a potential Giroux replacement there.

This team has been Groundhog Day for most of my time as an adult fan. Every year people get pissed off, complain about the same shit, and every year most people are right back on board by the end of the off-season despite there never being any change. Flyers never tank, Flyers are never good enough to win and almost never good enough to be a contender, are almost never bad enough to get a franchise player, always make the same awful hiring decisions, etc.

It’s gonna be the same thing as last off-season. Fans are mad now, will be mad and supportive until coaches are rightfully fired, they’ll be fired way too late, fans will be 100% on board again despite the next coach not being any better, and all the meanwhile they’ll made mediocre adds in the off-season that fans will blindly support despite the inevitable mediocrity to come. Rinse and repeat.
 

Garbage Goal

Registered User
Apr 1, 2009
22,699
4,591
Some positives this year with a true emergence of Hart and Myers. Lind healthy.

Coaching and talent evaluation continues to be a big red flag with this organization.

This has a very Hakstolian stench. Teams having to overcome a stupid GM and stupid coaching. AV is damn lucky that Hart is his goaltender.

Ghost needs to ask for a trade.

The same as it ever was, I don’t know why people continue to act surprised after literal years of this. Our roster also just isn’t good enough short of Hart carrying them to a Cup. The off-season additions were never good enough to begin with. Not like Fletcher or AV haven’t been defined by their mediocrity in their careers, just like the Flyers the last decade.

Coaches are a problem. Islanders have a worse roster than us and Washington, kicked both our asses. Roster is a problem too, has been. Which is why another mediocre coach can go from here to St. Louis and win a Cup. An early to mid 30’s Niskanen, Braun, and awful contracts to Hayes and JVR isn’t going to push any team from what we were under Hakstol to actual Cup contenders. Hart putting in a Tim Thomas like performance might, granted.
 

deadhead

Registered User
Feb 26, 2014
49,215
21,617
The underlying problem there being that most of our forward group is in their declining years and on the 30+ side. Most of our impact youth is in the net out short of Frost, Patrick, and Farabee all taking big strides in the near future. Even if they do, I don’t see a potential Giroux replacement there.

Uh, no.
Giroux (33), Raffl (32), Voracek (31), JVR (31), Niskanen (34). Right now that's all the age on this team going into next season.

Couts (28), Hayes (28), TK (23), Lindblom (24), Farabee (20), Laughton (26), NAK (24), Frost (21), Bunnaman (22), Patrick (22).
Myers (24), Provorov (24), Sanheim (24), Ghost (27), Friedman (25), Hagg (25), Morin (25)

Possible rookies: Sandin (24), Laczynski (23), Allison (23), Twarynski (23), Kase (24), Zamula (20).

JVR is a good possibility to be traded, in which case we'd have 4 players over 30.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rebels57

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad