GDT: ECSF Game 4: Your New Jersey Devils vs. Carolina Hurricanes, 7 PM, ESPN

[BurntToast]

I just can’t see how a young team who has come back many times in the regular season and has then come back from a 2-0 deficit on the road to win its first 1st round series in years against a rival crumbles under adversity. It’s fine if we just don’t agree, cause imo one of the best qualities this team has is their resiliency. One single series against the Canes doesn’t change that for me, not even a little bit.

I understand why some people could feel that way after this series if they end up losing though. I just don’t personally feel that way.

We know they can comeback (Regular Season) but they have been blown out every game they lost in the playoffs, both are true situations. They haven’t shown resiliency “in-game” outside of game 3 with the Rangers.

They were out playing the Rangers 5v5 and still got blown out every loss.

They outplayed the Canes, gave up 1 late in the period and collapsed.

 

[JimEIV]

He's been called out by plenty of people for his lack of scoring, myself included. I know from our earlier conversation you don't value expected goals much if it doesn't equal production, but it hasn't been for lack of attemps in the first series.

As far as the extra responsibilities a captain should bring, maybe you can enlighten me there on what you feel is missing.

If it's that he isn't Scott Stevens, well yeah, no one is.

I think a captain has inherit on ice responsibilities to lead by example.

Not every player is the same but Every player has the ability to do something within their abilities to change the course of a game...every single one

I would add that it shouldn't always fall on one person. I believe you need everyone doing those things at different times... whether it be a big hit, a big save, a critical goal, even a fight...this is the time of year you need to see the best of what they have...

That said when the course of the game does need to be changed, there is certainly a pecking order for who you expect to seize the moment first...and in this playoffs I don't think we've seen enough of that stepping up from the top end of the pecking order... Jack excluded.

 

[Clam Jensen]

Absolutely deleted? He had 4 points in 7 games...his only goal came at even strength? Nico had no goals in round 1?

You mentioned "additional responsibilities" and I called out that Nico's line erased Mika's in RD1. Mika only had 2 pts 5v5.

The advanced stats heavily support this and there's a tweet that I can't find that someone posted, but yes Nico's line dominated Mika's.

 

[JimEIV]

You mentioned "additional responsibilities" and I called out that Nico's line erased Mika's in RD1. Mika only had 2 pts 5v5.

The advanced stats heavily support this and there's a tweet that I can't find that someone posted, but yes Nico's line dominated Mika's.

That's fine, I'm not really disputing the point...I watched the games I saw what happened.

But it appears to me you are saying that Nico stepping up = shutting down a player that scored more goals than him at Even Strength in the first round?

 

[Camille the Eel]

Oh brother.

Dude. At some point, you'll come to the realization that goaltending isn't in a vaccuum and stop beating the drum to beat up one of our players that really doesn't deserve to be beaten up. Schmid got pulled just like him. Twice. And none of them deserved it, because of the way the team was playing in front of them.

You talk about saves and softies causing momentum for the TEAM, but you have this ridiculous blindspot where you don't believe the exact analog is true.

Goalies tend to fold when their confidence is shaken because the team is a complete shitshow in front of them. Sometimes they recover to play well - sometimes they never recover and are Blackwood.

Vanacek deserves nothing but our apologies and thanks - he put together a terrific season.

If he lets a Brett Burns blast go through him after we've GIVEN THE PUCK AWAY 26 times, I'm really pretty ok with that. Let it sink in that these are not TAKEAWAYS, TURNOVERS. This is us getting rid of the puck well before we need to, showing zero poise, confidence and patience, and playing directly into their counterattacking with speed. We played just like last year, turning over the pucks at the blueline.

He's an average goaltender, playing behind an unexperienced unpoised group of kids who are learning how to win. Maybe Hammond, Gillies etc are absolute crap - but Helleybuck or anyone is going to make absolutely no difference in that game. In fact, playoff Helleybuck has been demonstrably worse when things go south, if you'll remember.

He's going to come back and give us 30 wins for the next three years. Roll with it.

Graves being out has also thrown our defense pairings off. It was cool to see Luke Hughes but a team that needs a rookie playing his 3d and 4th games in the league to save them is a team that’s in serious trouble. The whole Luke thing made sense when Graves went down, but if too much reliance is placed on it, it can feel like desperation: a wing and a prayer.

 

[Clam Jensen]

That's fine, I'm not really disputing the point...I watched the games I saw what happened.

But it appears to me you are saying that Nico stepping up = shutting down player that scored more goals than him at Even Strength in the first round?

No, just responding to the extra work he was doing in RD1 outside of counting stats.

 

[Emperoreddy]

Nico and Timo played well the first round but the puck simply wasn't going in for them. It's frustrating but it does happen.

Everyone outside of maybe McLeod has been ass in this round, Nico included.

 

[My3Sons]

Nico and Timo played well the first round but the puck simply wasn't going in for them. It's frustrating but it does happen.

Everyone outside of maybe McLeod has been ass in this round, Nico included.

The Canes have a plan and execute it well. In contrast the NJ players look to be skating without a coherent set of tactics to counter the Canes. Hence the Devils look bad in multiple games. Something is off. Some of it is bad luck but it goes well beyond that. I’d be curious what a good coach would have the Devils change to take away what the Canes want to do. Maybe it’s nothing and Martinook really is the best player in the conference but I’m skeptical.

 

[Emperoreddy]

The Canes have a plan and execute it well. In contrast the NJ players look to be skating without a coherent set of tactics to counter the Canes. Hence the Devils look bad in multiple games. Something is off. Some of it is bad luck but it goes well beyond that. I’d be curious what a good coach would have the Devils change to take away what the Canes want to do. Maybe it’s nothing and Martinook really is the best player in the conference but I’m skeptical.

They are an extremely well coached team. There is a reason they finished ahead of us

 

[JimEIV]

The Canes have a plan and execute it well. In contrast the NJ players look to be skating without a coherent set of tactics to counter the Canes. Hence the Devils look bad in multiple games. Something is off. Some of it is bad luck but it goes well beyond that. I’d be curious what a good coach would have the Devils change to take away what the Canes want to do. Maybe it’s nothing and Martinook really is the best player in the conference but I’m skeptical.

Martinook is the best player in the conference...Right now

And isn't that the essence of the playoffs? All slates wiped clean and nothing matters except the moment...
Isn't that what we learned from Claude Lemieux in 1995

It's funny I have seen sample size thrown around a few times lately... there is no sample size for the playoffs there is only right now...the max number of games any individual team can play is 28...the guys who perform in the moment are guys who will move their team forward. Yesterday doesn't even matter on game day...and really all stats are what happened yesterday.

 

[My3Sons]

Martinook is the best player in the conference...Right now

And isn't that the essence of the playoffs? All slates wiped clean and nothing matters except the moment...
Isn't that what we learned from Claude Lemieux in 1995

It's funny I have seen sample size thrown around a few times lately... there is no sample size for the playoffs there is only right now...the max number of games any individual team can play is 28...the guys who perform in the moment are guys who will move their team forward. Yesterday doesn't even matter on game day...and really all stats are what happened yesterday.

By and large im not sure how much focus there is on post season stats for skaters. Does anyone have quick recall of Gretzky’s playoff scoring numbers? What I can tell you is he won four cups and I can also tell you that the Calgary upset was the most exciting series I ever watched involving teams I didn’t have a rooting interest in. Goalies are different but again it’s more about Cups than stats. What were Hasek’s playoff numbers like compared to Roy and Brodeur without looking it up? It’s just about winning. In thr first round NJ won. That’s it. Nobody cares if Bratt Meier Nico and Jack were off on offense. This round the team is struggling as are they outside of one game. So they are questioned all around. Hamilton the goalies the top six forwards. All of them. You win as a team and lose as a team in this situation. I’m bullish on the NJ future and this round doesn’t change that. It’s disheartening they have not played well against the Canes outside of game three but they did manage to score a TD with a two point conversion against them. Let’s see how many other teams do that the rest of the way. I think the reality is that it’s not as simple as scoring more or having better goaltending. They have to work together. If the NJ goalies give up 2 and you lose 2-1 that’s better than 5-1 but it’s still a loss. Similarly if NJ scores 3 and loses 5-3 who cares. The team had to learn how to win these games and just hasn’t yet. It took a while but they figured out regular season games. I expect that they will figure these out. At least his round will help Fitz identify what needs fixing from on the ice to behind the bench.

 

[palek1019]

Even with how bad we have played it would not shock me if this team came all the way back again based on how this year has gone.

I wouldn't bet money on it, but I do see it as possible

They're gonna have to win in Raleigh twice to do it. If they can pull that off, maybe they are the team of destiny lol. But all I'm hoping for is a fight and not going flaccid when trouble hits.