Just bet 100 vCash on the Rangers, they are the underdogs in Vegas(Caps are -140), which is sort of suprising to me, but just means more of a payday when we win! Rangers bets outnumber the Caps ones by a significant percentage(roughly 2 to 1) on vBookie.
GDT: ECQF: New York Rangers @ Washington Capitals - 7:30 PM
- Thread starter Elvis Presley
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Clowes Line
Cally's Chicken Parm
I thought this was an interesting discussion from the pre-game thread, so I wanted to carry it over to here...
No doubt that every single one of those teams were great - but they all also lived or died with their goaltenders. And by bringing this up, you are right that there are a lot of factors that can influence whether a team goes far in the playoffs or not. Just because you have a hot goalie, doesn't mean the team is going to make a deep playoff run if the rest team in front of them isn't up to snuff.
But the one constant is that if you don't have a goalie that has elevated their game come playoff time, you generally won't be winning a Cup.
In the seasons that the Red Wings had subpar playoff goaltending, they didn't win cups. Same goes for the Devils and the Avs.
- If Brodeur doesn't play out of his mind in the playoffs, there is no way the Devils have all of those cups.
- If the Wings don't get career performances from Mike Vernon in 96-97 (.927 SV % and 1.76 GAA), Chris Osgood in 97-98 (.918 SV % and 2.12 GAA), and Ozzy again in 07-08 (0.930 SV %, 1.55 GAA) they don't win any of those cups.
- If Hasek doesn't become a brick wall, there is no way the Sabres make it to the Stanley Cup Finals against the Stars. On the Wings' most recent Cup win, Hasek actually got pulled in the playoffs, and Ozzy played amazingly for them for the remainder of the playoffs (.930 SV%, 1.55 GAA). That doesn't happen, the Wings don't win the cup in 07-08.
- In the seasons that Roy gave up bad goals in the late 90s (often against the Wings) in the playoffs, the Avs got knocked out. Those were amazing Avs teams.
Did it generally help that those goalies had good teams in front of them? Sure. But in the years that those goalies didn't put up stunning performances in the playoffs or gave up a few too many softies, their team didn't win the cup. They were still on great teams those years that they lost. That didn't change.
Of course, I'd agree the Rangers aren't on those teams' levels - at least not that we've been shown so far this year - but that just emphasizes the point all the more; in order for them to succeed, Hank needs to play lights out.
Some #s to add to the food for thought (and because I'm a stats nerd)...
Stats for the goalies of the teams you brought up in the years they won the cup compared to career #s (+ Dom's 98-99 run):
Goalie
|
Team
|
Season
|
Career SV %
|
Career GAA
|
PO SV %
|
PO GAA
Patrick Roy | Canadiens | 85-86 | 0.910 | 2.54 | N/A | 1.93
| Canadiens | 92-93 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.929 | 2.13
| Avalanche | 95-96 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.921 | 2.10
| Avalanche | 00-01 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.934 | 1.70
| | | | | |
Mike Vernon | Red Wings | 96-97 | 0.890 | 2.98 | 0.927 | 1.76
Chris Osgood | Red Wings | 97-98 | 0.905 | 2.49 | 0.918 | 2.12
| Red Wings | 07-08 | 0.905 | 2.49 | 0.930 | 1.55
| | | | | |
Dominik Hasek | Sabres | 98-99 | 0.922 | 2.20 | 0.939 | 1.77
| Red Wings | 01-02 | 0.922 | 2.20 | 0.920 | 1.86
| | | | | |
Martin Brodeur | Devils | 94-95 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.927 | 1.67
| Devils | 99-00 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.927 | 1.61
| Devils | 02-03 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.934 | 1.65
The SC winners since 2000:
Team
|
Goalie
|
Season
|
Career SV %
|
Career GAA
|
PO SV %
|
PO GAA
LA Kings | Jonathan Quick | 11-12 | 0.915 | 2.32 | 0.946 | 1.41
Boston Bruins | Tim Thomas | 10-11 | 0.921 | 2.48 | 0.940 | 1.98
Chicago Blackhawks | Antti Niemi | 09-10 | 0.917 | 2.34 | 0.910 | 2.63
Pittsburgh Penguins | Marc-Andre Fleury | 08-09 | 0.910 | 2.66 | 0.908 | 2.61
Detroit Red Wings | Chris Osgood | 07-08 | 0.905 | 2.49 | 0.930 | 1.55
Anaheim Ducks | J.S. Giguere | 06-07 | 0.913 | 2.53 | 0.922 | 1.97
Carolina Hurricanes | Cam Ward | 05-06 | 0.910 | 2.74 | 0.920 | 2.14
Tampa Bay Lightning | Nikolai Khabibulin | 03-04 | 0.908 | 2.72 | 0.933 | 1.71
New Jersey Devils | Martin Brodeur | 02-03 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.934 | 1.65
Detroit Red Wings | Dominik Hasek | 01-02 | 0.922 | 2.20 | 0.920 | 1.86
Colorado Avalanche | Patrick Roy | 00-01 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.934 | 1.70
The only two teams to win in that time with goalies not beating their career (or season #s) were the 08-09 Penguins and the 09-10 Blackhawks. All the others elevated their performances significantly.
I love Hank, and I think he's great. But it is really true that he, in general, needs to find another gear in the playoffs. It is not a coincidence that the one year he put up monster #s in the playoffs which were even better than his regular season performance (career avg and in that particular season) was a year in which the Rangers made their deepest run in over a decade - last year. It is also not a coincidence that the one series in which his play dropped off that year, was the series that the Rangers lost (0.906 SV %, 2.5 GAA). If the Rangers want to go far, he needs to be stellar.
No doubt that every single one of those teams were great - but they all also lived or died with their goaltenders. And by bringing this up, you are right that there are a lot of factors that can influence whether a team goes far in the playoffs or not. Just because you have a hot goalie, doesn't mean the team is going to make a deep playoff run if the rest team in front of them isn't up to snuff.
But the one constant is that if you don't have a goalie that has elevated their game come playoff time, you generally won't be winning a Cup.
In the seasons that the Red Wings had subpar playoff goaltending, they didn't win cups. Same goes for the Devils and the Avs.
- If Brodeur doesn't play out of his mind in the playoffs, there is no way the Devils have all of those cups.
- If the Wings don't get career performances from Mike Vernon in 96-97 (.927 SV % and 1.76 GAA), Chris Osgood in 97-98 (.918 SV % and 2.12 GAA), and Ozzy again in 07-08 (0.930 SV %, 1.55 GAA) they don't win any of those cups.
- If Hasek doesn't become a brick wall, there is no way the Sabres make it to the Stanley Cup Finals against the Stars. On the Wings' most recent Cup win, Hasek actually got pulled in the playoffs, and Ozzy played amazingly for them for the remainder of the playoffs (.930 SV%, 1.55 GAA). That doesn't happen, the Wings don't win the cup in 07-08.
- In the seasons that Roy gave up bad goals in the late 90s (often against the Wings) in the playoffs, the Avs got knocked out. Those were amazing Avs teams.
Did it generally help that those goalies had good teams in front of them? Sure. But in the years that those goalies didn't put up stunning performances in the playoffs or gave up a few too many softies, their team didn't win the cup. They were still on great teams those years that they lost. That didn't change.
Of course, I'd agree the Rangers aren't on those teams' levels - at least not that we've been shown so far this year - but that just emphasizes the point all the more; in order for them to succeed, Hank needs to play lights out.
Some #s to add to the food for thought (and because I'm a stats nerd)...
Stats for the goalies of the teams you brought up in the years they won the cup compared to career #s (+ Dom's 98-99 run):
Patrick Roy | Canadiens | 85-86 | 0.910 | 2.54 | N/A | 1.93
| Canadiens | 92-93 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.929 | 2.13
| Avalanche | 95-96 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.921 | 2.10
| Avalanche | 00-01 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.934 | 1.70
| | | | | |
Mike Vernon | Red Wings | 96-97 | 0.890 | 2.98 | 0.927 | 1.76
Chris Osgood | Red Wings | 97-98 | 0.905 | 2.49 | 0.918 | 2.12
| Red Wings | 07-08 | 0.905 | 2.49 | 0.930 | 1.55
| | | | | |
Dominik Hasek | Sabres | 98-99 | 0.922 | 2.20 | 0.939 | 1.77
| Red Wings | 01-02 | 0.922 | 2.20 | 0.920 | 1.86
| | | | | |
Martin Brodeur | Devils | 94-95 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.927 | 1.67
| Devils | 99-00 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.927 | 1.61
| Devils | 02-03 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.934 | 1.65
The SC winners since 2000:
LA Kings | Jonathan Quick | 11-12 | 0.915 | 2.32 | 0.946 | 1.41
Boston Bruins | Tim Thomas | 10-11 | 0.921 | 2.48 | 0.940 | 1.98
Chicago Blackhawks | Antti Niemi | 09-10 | 0.917 | 2.34 | 0.910 | 2.63
Pittsburgh Penguins | Marc-Andre Fleury | 08-09 | 0.910 | 2.66 | 0.908 | 2.61
Detroit Red Wings | Chris Osgood | 07-08 | 0.905 | 2.49 | 0.930 | 1.55
Anaheim Ducks | J.S. Giguere | 06-07 | 0.913 | 2.53 | 0.922 | 1.97
Carolina Hurricanes | Cam Ward | 05-06 | 0.910 | 2.74 | 0.920 | 2.14
Tampa Bay Lightning | Nikolai Khabibulin | 03-04 | 0.908 | 2.72 | 0.933 | 1.71
New Jersey Devils | Martin Brodeur | 02-03 | 0.913 | 2.23 | 0.934 | 1.65
Detroit Red Wings | Dominik Hasek | 01-02 | 0.922 | 2.20 | 0.920 | 1.86
Colorado Avalanche | Patrick Roy | 00-01 | 0.910 | 2.54 | 0.934 | 1.70
The only two teams to win in that time with goalies not beating their career (or season #s) were the 08-09 Penguins and the 09-10 Blackhawks. All the others elevated their performances significantly.
I love Hank, and I think he's great. But it is really true that he, in general, needs to find another gear in the playoffs. It is not a coincidence that the one year he put up monster #s in the playoffs which were even better than his regular season performance (career avg and in that particular season) was a year in which the Rangers made their deepest run in over a decade - last year. It is also not a coincidence that the one series in which his play dropped off that year, was the series that the Rangers lost (0.906 SV %, 2.5 GAA). If the Rangers want to go far, he needs to be stellar.
Last edited:
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,203
- 25,954
Kakko
Formerly Chytil
kovazub94
Enigmatic
- Aug 5, 2010
- 12,591
- 8,461
Well done with GDT.
One small update needed: the Rangers total stat shows 2-2-1 instead of 2-1-1 and away stats show 0-2-1 instead of 0-1-1. Since in play-offs the 3rd column is irrelevant I'd prefer to see 2-2 and 0-2, respectively.
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
Nice job on this.
The team excuse can only go so far. I can name dozens of goalies who have literally been brillaint through four rounds -- win or lose.
Jason Kay @JKTHN
We're hearing too much about Player 61 Montreal-Ottawa, and not enough about Player 61 in Rangers-Washington. Still no goals for Nash.
We're hearing too much about Player 61 Montreal-Ottawa, and not enough about Player 61 in Rangers-Washington. Still no goals for Nash.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
As I mentioned earlier, Lundqvist was stellar in the SEL playoffs and also performed well in winning an Olympic Gold. He has demonstrated that he's capable of stepping up in big games--now he needs to do it consistently. If he's just "good," then we'll never win a damn thing.
MrEctions
Willy Nilly
Am I the only one laughing about the Tom Wilson thread on the Caps board? He's the 2nd coming of Jesus to some of them, others are more reserved. I get that he's a shiny new prospect, much akin to Kreider last year for us. But this kid is coming from the OHL, and they are thinking he could take Clowe or Asham in a fight, really?
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 35,213
- 22,109
He's been up and down. He was lights out in the opening round of the 2012 Olympics and then gave up 3 goals in 7 shots against Slovakia.
He has won Olympic gold, which a lot of people tend to ignore when assessing his resume, and I can't criticize his playoffs when, like Hasek in Buffalo, he always has an average side in front of him. Still, I'm sure he wants to prove he can do it.
He has won Olympic gold, which a lot of people tend to ignore when assessing his resume, and I can't criticize his playoffs when, like Hasek in Buffalo, he always has an average side in front of him. Still, I'm sure he wants to prove he can do it.
DudMan28
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2013
- 2,917
- 1,750
At the end of the day there was no need for MDZ to go down like a fish out of water. By the end of the play Richie was in position, and DZ just flopped around.
ImIdaho
Choo-Choo-Choose me!
- Mar 21, 2012
- 4,722
- 0
I don't who he is, so I Googled him and all I'm getting is the actor who played Biff in Back to the Future.
Fitzy
Very Stable Genius
- Jan 29, 2009
- 35,213
- 22,109
A lot of posters here were pretty off their rocker about Kreider for a very long time. It goes around.
BlueshirtBlitz
Foolish Samurai
I think the only really bad goals Hank has given up were in Game 1. In 2 he was lights out, and 3 and 4 he backed up letting in some goals with some otherworldly saves as well.
If Hank steals one of the next 2 games, though, we'll win the series.
If Hank steals one of the next 2 games, though, we'll win the series.
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
He definitely has it in him. I will always stand by my belief that the 5-man collapse below the circles is detrimental to his style.
When he sees the puck he's almost invincible, and he's quick and long enough to stop guys at the side of the net for rebounds or tap ins.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,203
- 25,954
Steve Kournianos
@thedraftanalyst
Good teams get dominated over stretches. Richter bailed out several Rangers teams who forgot how to defend.
I was a soccer goalie, and I vehemently disagree. My absolute best games came on a couple occasions where the team in front of me forgot to show up.
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