Series Discussion: ECQF: (6) New York Rangers vs. (3) Washington Capitals

[Hivemind]

I certainly wouldn't call Nicky a beast during the regular season. His play at the beginning the year drew plenty of criticism, for good reason. His point totals were tolerable mostly because he was feasting off of secondary assists (particularly on the powerplay, where he and Ribeiro would pass it back and forth and then Ribs would feed a cross-ice pass to Ovie or Brouwer for a goal).

Later in the season, his play improved, but in large part because Ovechkin was lighting it up. Normally, I'm adamantly against the whole "Backstrom is a product of Ovechkin" argument, but this year it seems true. The only periods where he played really well were when Ovechkin was giving him all sorts of time and space, and even then his most frequent play was feeding Ovechkin. It's no fluke that Backstrom only had 8 goals this season (a measly 13.67G pace over 82 games).

 

[Hivemind]

Who said that wasn't a crap play by Ovechkin??? I think we all most definitely believe it was!

The only thing here is how you want to go about fixing it. You want to publically find a way to humiliate him or at least humiliate him in front of his teamates even more than he already is.

I'm telling you that is not how Oates does things. If you want things done like that then we need to hire Keenan. If thats the kind of coach you want then Oates is not him.

I'm happy with Oates and trust him. You don't seem to.

While I certainly don't think Oates is one for public shaming in front of the team, do we really know this for sure? We don't sit in on his video sessions and team meetings. I doubt he does it, but we don't really know.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Who said that wasn't a crap play by Ovechkin??? I think we all most definitely believe it was!

The only thing here is how you want to go about fixing it. You want to publically find a way to humiliate him or at least humiliate him in front of his teamates even more than he already is.

I'm telling you that is not how Oates does things. If you want things done like that then we need to hire Keenan. If thats the kind of coach you want then Oates is not him.
I'm happy with Oates and trust him. You don't seem to.

You're speaking of what you have no clue. None of us do...


Keep on treating Ovechkin like he's a 20 yr old rookie and the Caps will never win a Cup. Time to man up accept responsibility. And you make it seem like there's no constructive way to point that glaring issue out in a team video session. Nobody is suggesting Ovy come up and stand in front of the class with the dunce cap on, but it needs to be addressed with the team.


You're suggesting correction through coddling. I'm suggesting a more adult approach.

 

[Liberati0n*]

I pray Oates has the guts to highlight/diagnose that pathetic effort in front of the whole team.

First, please don't quote trolls like BT. Ruins the ignore function for real fans.

This has always been the danger of Oates' otherwise successful approach to Ovechkin though. The whole thing is built on reestablishing his confidence and being constructive without any apparent criticism. When something like this happens...is some gentle reminder enough / what happens if he does play that for the whole team and emphasize Ovechkin's play?

 

[BobRouse]

While I certainly don't think Oates is one for public shaming in front of the team, do we really know this for sure? We don't sit in on his video sessions and team meetings. I doubt he does it, but we don't really know.

Well based on what individual players have said throughout the season it seems to be the case.

More than once they said he doesn't try to do that but rather tries to be positive and show them things they did right. I'm sure he would show them some things they need to correct but I certainly don't get the sense he does it in a way as to single a player out for a mistake.

Nothing I have seen suggests that. Personally I dig his style which I find is unusual amongst coaches these days. He's on the exact opposite end of Keenan.

 

[Langway]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/23/whyno-adam-oates-didnt-doubt-capitals/

At the wheel was Oates, who didn’t reveal the slightest bit of negativity along the way.

“Whole coaching staff was positive. It it starts with him,†captain Alex Ovechkin said. “We see it and we feel it. We never see the panic out there we never feel that they scream on us or something like we see before. It’s unbelievable when you see his emotion out there and you know his confidence.â€

Oates espoused positivity publicly and, according to players, did the same in team meetings. It rubbed off.

“We never got too high, never got too low,†Hendricks said. “Even when we could have gotten low and down on ourselves with that start we had, we battled back. The coaches did a good job showing us positive clips and the reasons we’re getting better, and we did and we have.â€...

Oates has said time and again that he didn’t like to be yelled at by a coach or singled out, so he doesn’t do that in a mean-spirited way to his players.

“You can correct mistakes when they feel good about themselves because they’re more open to it,†he said. “Basically, simple human nature we’re talking about all the time.â€...

But keeping to the positives when the negatives were piling up was a huge part of Oates‘ effort.

“That was probably what we talked about the most: ‘Don’t push the panic button. Don’t show doubt. Just be professional and talk about it,’ †Oates said. “Quite honestly, what else can you do? We were obviously not winning hockey games, and it was a very difficult situation, and you just try to talk the guys through it.â€

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=668772

"You don't leave video sessions feeling like you've been beaten up, like you do with some other coaches, when you come out saying, 'Geez, I need a drink after that,'" Chimera said. "With him you feel like you've actually learned something."

 

[Liberati0n*]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/23/whyno-adam-oates-didnt-doubt-capitals/

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=668772

What did the players think of Cassidy's video sessions?

 

[BobRouse]

What did the players think of Cassidy's video sessions?

The players didn't care for Cassidy from the start when he whipped out his gameplan on a napkin in the initial practice.

What a clown he was. I did respect him for coming on Sportsnite after he got fired to face the music and admit he made mistakes along the way.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

The Green crosscheck definitely was there. That is what makes Stepan's action so damning. He was going back at him with intent. Got lucky he only got fined.

Backstrom didn't elbow Anisimov. He got him square in the chest. There was no penalty nor review by the league and not one media outlet called for one to be had. Del Zotto's caused a great deal of controversy as did Stepan's. BOTH situations lead to concussions which the NHL has been taking seriously.

I have seen the Rangers use this tactic several times and I do believe they are taught to do that as a result.

Like it or not, regardless of intent (and I personally believe in both cases there was), the result of the play (concussion) and severity of injury is taken into account.

Just this season Nash also took a running charge at a florida player and elbowed him in the head. No suspension probably b/c the guy wasn't hurt too bad.

Clearly you are entitled to your view but it is not one I share. Has a Ranger player been suspended by Shanahan since he took over? A couple times but sure could have been several more! I've never seen a Caps player NOT get suspended when any questionable play comes into account.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1577262-why-rick-nash-should-be-suspended-for-dangerous-elbow-on-tomas-kopecky-video

Shanahan played for the Rangers and had success there on some level. He certainly liked it there and ended his career with them I believe. Nash made that dangerous play in the midst of a playoff run for the Rangers. Where there is smoke there is fire.

Rangers players who take headshots don't get suspended. Green made a similar play against Kulikov a couple years back and got 3 games despite not having any history. This year the NHL is cracking down more yet Nash somehow doesn't get suspended???

Hagelin was given 3 games for this hit last year. In the playoffs.

Not that I don't think it was a bad hit, but playoff suspensions are usually less severe in the case of a hit that really wasn't TERRIBLE. 1 game? Sure. 2 games? Maybe, 3 was too much there. Also remember that this same exact play received no discipline, and actually DUBINSKY was given a game misconduct on the play.


I think saying Shanahan is pro-Rangers is pretty tinfoil-hat/Detroit fan, if you ask me

 

[Chimaera]

Mediocre Ovechkin = loss. Can't make up his scoring like he provided in the regular season. Especially against a good goalie.

 

[BiPolar Caps]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/apr/23/whyno-adam-oates-didnt-doubt-capitals/

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=668772

Difference between Tortorella and Oates, Joe B/Locker noted during the third period that Eminger had not been seen on the ice since Ward got around him in the second period. Tortorella believes in the dog house method of coaching.

 

[BobRouse]

Hagelin was given 3 games for this hit last year. In the playoffs.

Not that I don't think it was a bad hit, but playoff suspensions are usually less severe in the case of a hit that really wasn't TERRIBLE. 1 game? Sure. 2 games? Maybe, 3 was too much there. Also remember that this same exact play received no discipline, and actually DUBINSKY was given a game misconduct on the play.


I think saying Shanahan is pro-Rangers is pretty tinfoil-hat/Detroit fan, if you ask me

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion however wrong it maybe. I'm sure you kick chickens for fun and hate America too for that matter

Its not just me that has questioned it but there is an air of suspicion that there would be bias involved.

Nash didn't even have a hearing....

 

[Langway]

What did the players think of Cassidy's video sessions?

The appearance of they're swag should of been much more Belorussian. Or sumthin.

 

[BobRouse]

Difference between Tortorella and Oates, Joe B/Locker noted during the third period that Eminger had not been seen on the ice since Ward got around him in the second period. Tortorella believes in the dog house method of coaching.

I don't like that one bit either.

I'd much rather see a coach throw that guy right back out there and show confidence in him. He will run through a wall for you then instead of despising you and losing confidence. At some point you may need that player again.

In the NFL if a WR drops a ball its usually a better strategy to go right back to him the next time you throw as opposed to banishing him.

 

[Stewie G]

Hagelin was given 3 games for this hit last year. In the playoffs.

Not that I don't think it was a bad hit, but playoff suspensions are usually less severe in the case of a hit that really wasn't TERRIBLE. 1 game? Sure. 2 games? Maybe, 3 was too much there. Also remember that this same exact play received no discipline, and actually DUBINSKY was given a game misconduct on the play.


I think saying Shanahan is pro-Rangers is pretty tinfoil-hat/Detroit fan, if you ask me

Why are you here again? Neither side is going to convince the other on this issue or any other one relating to the two teams. If you want to discuss the series "objectively", the series thread on the Playoffs board is the place to go.

 

[Liberati0n*]

The appearance of they're swag should of been much more Belorussian. Or sumthin.

You really burned me there. #sizzle #SWAGged #misdirection

 

[BiPolar Caps]

I don't like that one bit either.

I'd much rather see a coach throw that guy right back out there and show confidence in him. He will run through a wall for you then instead of despising you and losing confidence. At some point you may need that player again.

In the NFL if a WR drops a ball its usually a better strategy to go right back to him the next time you throw as opposed to banishing him.

I agree with you, hasn't Torts at times backed the bus over a few of his players. I would think with the players there's no gray area on him, they either love him or hate him. This is why he got the talking head gig after coaching TB, he's doesn't sugar coat it. But I don't think players for the most part appreciate that.

 

[Langway]

You really burned me there. #sizzle #SWAGged #misdirection

They're complete opposites philosophically. Cassidy was like Hunter only worse. Oates is maybe the most professional of the bunch but the jury remains out on attention to detail and the ability to get the most out of them. Wanting Johansson hired was questionable and I think the forwards still get away with way too much of a questionable effort overall. They still don't cause enough turnovers, particularly in the neutral zone, or display the sort of explosiveness you'd hope for in a supposedly aggressive system. If the opposition doesn't forecheck with much vigor they can play an adequate downhill game but otherwise they still do a lot of little things poorly.

 

[BobRouse]

I agree with you, hasn't Torts at times backed the bus over a few of his players. I would think with the players there's no gray area on him, they either love him or hate him. This is why he got the talking head gig after coaching TB, he's doesn't sugar coat it. But I don't think players for the most part appreciate that.

He sure did. Now I'm not saying it doesn't work since there have been plenty of coaches who have had success with that kind of style.

But thats not the only style that wins either. Badger Bob Johnson won as many cups for Pitt that Scotty Bowman did for instance.

I always admired Joe Gibbs. The players loved him and for good reason.

Personal preference. I just don't think you have to be a doosh to get people to do what you want them to.

 

[Liberati0n*]

They're complete opposites philosophically. Cassidy was like Hunter only worse. Oates is maybe the most professional of the bunch but the jury remains out on attention to detail and the ability to get the most out of them. Wanting Johansson hired was questionable and I think the forwards still get away with way too much of a questionable effort overall. They still don't cause enough turnovers, particularly in the neutral zone, or display the sort of explosiveness you'd hope for in a supposedly aggressive system. If the opposition doesn't forecheck with much vigor they can play an adequate downhill game but otherwise they still do a lot of little things poorly.

See, there's no need to bring Belarus into this when there's actually something to talk about. Whining about uneven PP distribution doesn't deserve a serious response. I'm way too young to remember anything real about Cassidy's coaching; although I was being sort of sarcastic, I was genuinely asking.

Oates' insistent positivity in the press conferences worries me, but it's impossible to know how much of it is genuine and how much is just his approach. Everyone has complained about the team's habits for a while, and it seems like they had a long way to go. Look at what they had to do a year ago to compete in the playoffs. Oates' intelligence/competence could be an illusion, but if it's not you have to think that he realizes more than he lets on. He's not going to come out and say he wishes he had a team with more hockey sense.

 

[messiah]

Difference between Tortorella and Oates, Joe B/Locker noted during the third period that Eminger had not been seen on the ice since Ward got around him in the second period. Tortorella believes in the dog house method of coaching.

Yeh to bad the gm wont do it to tortorella like he dose it to only select players

 

[BobRouse]

Oates seems genuine and does know what he is doing so don't worry about that.

One thing we haven't touched on...

Hendricks. Is it me or has his play been seriously subpar so far? I was very dissappointed with him last night.

Doesn't seem to be hitting or winning one on one battles at all. He was subpar a couple years ago in the playoffs and awesome last year. I don't understand whats wrong with him.

Wouldn't mind seeing Wilson in for him.

 

[Hivemind]

They're complete opposites philosophically. Cassidy was like Hunter only worse. Oates is maybe the most professional of the bunch but the jury remains out on attention to detail and the ability to get the most out of them. Wanting Johansson hired was questionable and I think the forwards still get away with way too much of a questionable effort overall. They still don't cause enough turnovers, particularly in the neutral zone, or display the sort of explosiveness you'd hope for in a supposedly aggressive system. If the opposition doesn't forecheck with much vigor they can play an adequate downhill game but otherwise they still do a lot of little things poorly.

Can't agree more with your last point. This team is night and day depending on whether or not the opponent can execute a quality forecheck. The breakout still struggles under pressure, and Oates' solution earlier in the year seemed to be dropping the center lower and lower in support (which makes it harder to get through the neutral zone with speed). Against the Rangers' hyper-aggressive forecheck, the solution seems to be chipping it up to the red line and hoping we can get it deeper. Best case scenario seems to be a long, cross-ice pass to an isolated winger who attempts to cross the blue line essentially alone and then wait for support. Even that usually results in a failed zone entry (especially now that the Rangers have sniffed it out and are denying the blue line in these scenarios).

To an extent, this is true for any team. When the other team applies pressure, options disappear and you need better execution to be successful. But if this team had crisper passing, more aggressive puck pursuit, and did a better job on the backcheck this would be less of an issue.

 

[ChibiPooky]

I would like to see someone with stronger board work and better touch around the net on the top line rather than 90. Let the cycle do its work. IMO the reason that line is invisible is because it's geared toward creating opportunities off the rush, and the Rangers top 2 D just aren't allowing any.

16/42 - 19 - 8
90 - 9 - 20 (ugh)
25 - 85 - 16/42
24 - 83 - 43 (Wilson)

The problem is that other than the top line, there's really no good place to put 90.

 

[messiah]

I am sorry thats too funny looks like they took a monument from the national mall put a number 8 jersey on it and just pushed it out there he barely moves at all . I like ovie i think he is the best player in hockey that video reminds me when jagr did the same thing for the rangers.