Post-Game Talk: ECQF 2: FLYERS (H) 0 vs. Canadiens (A) 5 at Toronto, Friday, Aug. 14, 2020

[MacDonald4MVP]

MTL at PHI

 

[Jtown]

And there are some people who live in fantasy land:

Ghost is an elite defenseman who should be on the 1st pair

Frost will solve all our problems even though he was meh in his 20 games this winter and is undersized against a fierce forechecking team that has shut TK down

And so on.


The reality is that Giroux, Voracek, JVR and Hayes are solid complementary players, but none have great speed.
Couts is our only elite forward, and his lack of speed means he needs speedy wings against a team like the Habs.

TK has struggled this series, and you can't just write it off to inexperience. TK has tried to pass too much against a team that back-checks as hard as they fore-check. The space isn't there. And he struggles to win board battles. I doubt Frost would fare as well as TK.

It's not an accident our best forwards have been NAK and Laughton, full sized guys who can skate. It's why I'd like to see Bunnaman get a shot over Thompson. We need more speed, especially on the bottom six.

Sanheim and Myers looked awful at times, because for defensemen, skating has less value against Montreal than quick, decisive decision making, and that does require experience. Ghost's lack of size leaves him watching when Montreal crashes the net.

It's not the best matchup for the Flyers, Montreal is a different team with a healthy Price at the top of his game.
AV has to figure out how to slow the Hab's forecheck and flip the ice.

Dump and chase won't work, b/c the Habs are faster to the puck, long passes to get behind them don't work b/c the Habs are disciplined and cover the passing lanes. The Flyers do have the size and skill advantage, but patiently holding the puck doesn't work because the Habs are so aggressive checking the puck. Flyers can't skate faster, but they can think and act faster.

Montreal just has wave after wave of fast tiny forwards that we can't keep up with. While our skating has improved as a team individiually we are far behind many teams in the league. Guys like Farabee and jvr are below average and guys like giroux and voracek are average skaters.

 

[Striiker]

I guess Crosby and Malkin suck too. Their team lost and in 4 games against the Habs they had 3 and 1 points, respectively.

Meanwhile Giroux and Voracek have 1 point each in 2 games.

Price has a .954 sv% and 1.46 GAA in the playoffs so far, by the way. Not that context matters or anything.

 

[flyerslducks]

Dump and chase could potentially work in this series, though no zone entry strategy has been a positive experience for the Flyers thus far.

They have to keep the puck away from Price, though. Cross corner dump ins away from the trapezoid to keep Price in the net and so the Flyers can wear down the Habs D and make them make quick decisions leading to more turnovers. A long term strategy, especially if the Habs become reliant on a short bench for their defense.

The Flyers haven't made it tough on the Habs yet.

ya we have to get back to our game. We are a high pressure forechecking team. This whole “dump and chase won’t work” is bogus. Get on them fast and hard. There is no way ouellette, mete, and kulak can withstand constant and relentless forecheck. Get on them fast and hard.

How do we do that? Like you said, put the pucks in areas we can win battles. Also, make clean exists. We tried to make stretch passes a lot last game and it burned us. We don’t usually do that and it didn’t work for AV. We use the forwards and do smaller passes to exit usually. Our d tried to make these perfect long passes and Montreal just clogged up the neutral zone and countered every single chance. If we get in on them, then we can clog up the neutral zone and play the suffocating way we have in the second half. Outside of petry and Weber, we can hound their d into a lot of turnovers if we play our game. Chairot has been very surprising and good for them, however. Relentless pressure.

 

[deadhead]

I guess Crosby and Malkin suck too. Their team lost and in 4 games against the Habs they had 3 and 1 points, respectively.

Meanwhile Giroux and Voracek have 1 point each in 2 games.

Price has a .954 sv% and 1.46 GAA in the playoffs so far, by the way. Not that context matters or anything.

Crosby has exactly one playoff series in his career where he was less than xGF 50%. Malkin had 3 in 12 playoff series.
In 22 playoff games, Giroux and Voracek have 6 points between them since 2013-14.

in 84 PO games since 2013-14 at 5x5 (no PP stat padding):
Crosby 84g 19-32 51
Malkin 83g 13-22 35

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's pretty hard to score points playing for a coach who puts you in a shell all game long.

 

[flyerslducks]

ya we have to get back to our game. We are a high pressure forechecking team. This whole “dump and chase won’t work” is bogus. Get on them fast and hard. There is no way ouellette, mete, and kulak can withstand constant and relentless forecheck. Get on them fast and hard.

How do we do that? Like you said, put the pucks in areas we can win battles. Also, make clean exists. We tried to make stretch passes a lot last game and it burned us. We don’t usually do that and it didn’t work for AV. We use the forwards and do smaller passes to exit usually. Our d tried to make these perfect long passes and Montreal just clogged up the neutral zone and countered every single chance. If we get in on them, then we can clog up the neutral zone and play the suffocating way we have in the second half. Outside of petry and Weber, we can hound their d into a lot of turnovers if we play our game. Chairot has been very surprising and good for them, however. Relentless pressure.

one clear example of this was Myers..

he tried to make a stretch pass to Laughton (or whoever it was) on their blue and he was easily checked. He had so much time to skate to the red line and dump it hard around for Laughton to apply that pressure or just skate it in and then dump it. Instead he tried a low percentage pass and it was a turnover or the Montreal defender knocked it out.

another example on Myers..


-this time he did skate it to the redline, dumped it hard around and we got in on the forecheck, created havoc and got some sustained pressure (albeit short). Our d is very capable of skating and making nice passes but the forwards have to match Montreal’s intensity as well. Really looking forward to seeing our response and what raffl brings. He has nice speed and size to disrupt things. Would love for pitlick, raffl, Laughton, and nak to get that side of their fame going. We know they all have decent speed and size to get in on them hard.

 

[TCTC]

I never understood why everyone wanted to play Montreal in the first round. They are a dark horse late entry opponent, playing without pressure, not afraid to dress all their youngsters. And when was the last time that Carey Price and Shea Weber were both healthy and well rested at the same time? Spells trouble.

Two world class players that can inspire and carry a team and a team that has nothing to lose is a dangerous combination. I said that before the series started.
Our team just has to show that they not only are the more talented team, but that they want it more. They certainly didn't do that in Game 2.

 

[Hexxxy]

Dump and chase won't work, b/c the Habs are faster to the puck, long passes to get behind them don't work b/c the Habs are disciplined and cover the passing lanes. The Flyers do have the size and skill advantage, but patiently holding the puck doesn't work because the Habs are so aggressive checking the puck. Flyers can't skate faster, but they can think and act faster.

Also, the Habs defensemen are dominating behind the goal, and being physical -- also the D is getting support from their forwards.

 

[kudymen]

I still haven't gotten over how terribly we've played that 5 on 3, could have been a game changer. No adjustments. Zip

(Reading comprehension helper - not saying this was THE problem that game. We were already down by 3 there due to shitty display everywhere. Commenting on that thing that still keeps annoying me day later)

 

[TannedBum]

How do we do that? Like you said, put the pucks in areas we can win battles. Also, make clean exists. We tried to make stretch passes a lot last game and it burned us. We don’t usually do that and it didn’t work for AV. We use the forwards and do smaller passes to exit usually. Our d tried to make these perfect long passes and Montreal just clogged up the neutral zone and countered every single chance. If we get in on them, then we can clog up the neutral zone and play the suffocating way we have in the second half. Outside of petry and Weber, we can hound their d into a lot of turnovers if we play our game. Chairot has been very surprising and good for them, however. Relentless pressure.

You need speed to beat them at their own game, and you don't have it. Neutral zone is the key, and the speed of the habs defenders is irrelevant. You have to come up with something else.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Crosby has exactly one playoff series in his career where he was less than xGF 50%. Malkin had 3 in 12 playoff series.

I haven't looked yet, but this just feels off to me. Did you maybe mean this as taking the whole Playoffs together? So all 20+ Games for Crosby's 2016-17 would count as one entry? It only seemed fair to ask before checking it out. No reason to talk past each other.

 

[Striiker]

I still haven't gotten over how terribly we've played that 5 on 3, could have been a game changer. No adjustments. Zip

(Reading comprehension helper - not saying this was THE problem that game. We were already down by 3 there due to shitty display everywhere. Commenting on that thing that still keeps annoying me day later)

Yeah, but Provorov has a PP goal in the first game so there's literally nothing that can be improved. If Ghost or Sanheim were there they would have done the exact same thing, from the exact same spot, and we'd have the exact same result.

Therrien is a mastermind who has coached [insert worthless number] NHL games in his career. How many have you coached?

 

[kudymen]

Yeah, but Provorov has a PP goal in the first game so there's literally nothing that can be improved. If Ghost or Sanheim were there they would have done the exact same thing, from the exact same spot, and we'd have the exact same result.

Therrien is a mastermind who has coached [insert worthless number] NHL games in his career. How many have you coached?

I got 0 games and also 0 award nominations

Though to be fair, I only said it annoyed me, I didn't say they are dumb and I had a solution!!

 

[Striiker]

I got 0 games and also 0 award nominations

Though to be fair, I only said it annoyed me, I didn't say they are dumb and I had a solution!!

Why are you annoyed? Don't you enjoy winning? We won regular season games!

Stop being negative.

 

[kudymen]

Why are you annoyed? Don't you enjoy winning? We won regular season games!

Stop being negative.

I'm not negative, it's just a sad emoji

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

I still haven't gotten over how terribly we've played that 5 on 3, could have been a game changer. No adjustments. Zip

(Reading comprehension helper - not saying this was THE problem that game. We were already down by 3 there due to shitty display everywhere. Commenting on that thing that still keeps annoying me day later)

This bugged me too, because it is so easy to do better.

I still think my biggest game 2 annoyance was having a faceoff in the Habs' zone with 14 seconds left in the 1st, Provy and Ghost getting crossed up (on a clean faceoff win!) leading to a breakaway and then a penalty on Ghost, and ultimately giving up the 3rd goal on that subsequent powerplay.

The first intermission should have been a time to regroup, but they shot themselves in the foot.

Blargh.

 

[Striiker]

This bugged me too, because it is so easy to do better.

I still think my biggest game 2 annoyance was having a faceoff in the Habs' zone with 14 seconds left in the 1st, Provy and Ghost getting crossed up (on a clean faceoff win!) leading to a breakaway and then a penalty on Ghost, and ultimately giving up the 3rd goal on that subsequent powerplay.

The first intermission should have been a time to regroup, but they shot themselves in the foot.

Blargh.

Ghost did the right thing in both situations. Just sayin

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It's pretty hard to score points playing for a coach who puts you in a shell all game long.

what we need is a fan from this board coaching this team. We could potentially have the greatest team ever.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Ghost did the right thing in both situations. Just sayin

He did, and also I don't think Braun was in the wrong on that goal where he pursued the puck carrier all the way to the corner and left Ghost alone in front surrounded by Habs. Ghost and Braun have been playing where Ghost handles the net front and passing lanes, and Braun roams around the boards on both sides. The problem there was the two of them were defending 4 Habs without support. Many assignments were missed by forwards.

 

[flyerslducks]

You need speed to beat them at their own game, and you don't have it. Neutral zone is the key, and the speed of the habs defenders is irrelevant. You have to come up with something else.

so what have we done all year? We were suffocating teams in the neutral zone and on the forecheck...that hasn't gone away if we play our game...

 

[Striiker]

He did, and also I don't think Braun was in the wrong on that goal where he pursued the puck carrier all the way to the corner and left Ghost alone in front surrounded by Habs. Ghost and Braun have been playing where Ghost handles the net front and passing lanes, and Braun roams around the boards on both sides. The problem there was the two of them were defending 4 Habs without support. Many assignments were missed by forwards.

Oh yeah, the forwards weren’t even in the picture on the two goals scored with Ghost-Braun on the ice. I’m convinced they were instructed to play differently, based on how it seemed like every single line was doing the same thing.

It’s also hilarious that people tried to blame Ghost for the one that went off his foot, when he was actually playing it perfectly. He was exactly where he was supposed to be and that’s just ridiculous bad luck.

 

[Striiker]

so what have we done all year? We were suffocating teams in the neutral zone and on the forecheck...that hasn't gone away if we play our game...

What we did all year was play fast by making accurate quick passes when moving the puck.

This series half our forwards either can’t accept a pass or give it away as soon as they get it.

 

[flyerslducks]

What we did all year was play fast by making accurate quick passes when moving the puck.

This series half our forwards either can’t accept a pass or give it away as soon as they get it.

its both fwds and d. Charlie or some other flyers write made a great point how we tried to make waaaaay too many stretch passes. It just didn't work and created a lot of turnovers, hesitation on plays, and mental mistakes. We usually haave our fwds break out with our d at times too which helps the team break out and play fast as you say. We will see how AV adjusts

 

[Striiker]

its both fwds and d. Charlie or some other flyers write made a great point how we tried to make waaaaay too many stretch passes. It just didn't work and created a lot of turnovers, hesitation on plays, and mental mistakes. We usually haave our fwds break out with our d at times too which helps the team break out and play fast as you say. We will see how AV adjusts

Like I said to Beef above, I have to assume they were instructed by the coaches to do that, probably to deal with the Habs speed, due to the fact that they all seemed to be doing it.