Post-Game Talk: ECQF 1: FLYERS (H) 2 vs. Canadiens (A) 1 at Toronto, Wednesday, Aug. 12, 2020, 8:00 pm ET

[flyerslducks]

Sure. He doesn't need to sour on him, but he can adjust usage in individual games if someone is clearly struggling.

this. AV did that a few times this year but I want to see more of it. We never saw that with hak and Lavy was a master at that. If things weren't going well, lavy would always mix the lines and it worked a lot. miss that

 

[Flyers Time]

I think you might just be upset that he played well.






Regardless, he was put in a bad spot and was responsible for being the hero while babysitting the bottom six, which he successfully was most of the game. He wasn't flawless, but literally everyone had bad periods of time in this game, especially during the 2nd.

He played pretty much exclusively with Braun and the bottom six (11:27 with the 3rd/4th lines, 2:13 with the 2nd line, and 1:36 with the 1st line) and those guys did a terrible job at getting the puck out of the zone, causing Ghost to get trapped way too often. Every time Ghost would get the puck and move it to a forward, they'd immediately turn it over and get stuck again. And he wasn't getting any puck moving help from Braun.

Meanwhile as an individual he was good defensively, did a good job at moving the puck, did a great job at defending zone entries, and made a handful of really good pinches during his little time in the offensive zone, including the one that got us that PP we scored on. Not sure what else anyone could have expected from him. Without him this game is a much bigger mess and the bottom six probably does a lot less "bending" and a lot more "breaking". If his performance in Game 2 is the same as Game 1, and most of the rest of the team stops shitting the bed so hard, we'll be in great shape.

If Hagg would of played yesterday and turned it over as many times as Ghost did in the 2nd period. You'd be blaming only him, but when Ghost does it, it's a team problem. Haha

 

[flyerslducks]

Flyers saying the ice was actually better, that is shocking to hear.

no excuses. love it. Own up to playing like crap in the 2nd and came out hard in the 3rd. Now gotta step on their throats...

as for niskanen...He just needs to make faster plays. Him and hayes got caught a few times just holding onto the puck way too long. Get rid of it and make the safer play. I would love to see provorov-myers as the future pair for this team later though. I loooooove sanheim-myers but I think provorov-myers can be amazing as well. Sanheim-niskanen is a decent pair as well (maybe for next year though). The good news is that 1. niskanen can bounce back and I expect him too & 2. he can be paired with provorov, sanheim, and ghost to make a great pair. We got options

 

[TCTC]

no excuses. love it. Own up to playing like crap in the 2nd and came out hard in the 3rd. Now gotta step on their throats...

as for niskanen...He just needs to make faster plays. Him and hayes got caught a few times just holding onto the puck way too long. Get rid of it and make the safer play. I would love to see provorov-myers as the future pair for this team later though. I loooooove sanheim-myers but I think provorov-myers can be amazing as well. Sanheim-niskanen is a decent pair as well (maybe for next year though). The good news is that 1. niskanen can bounce back and I expect him too & 2. he can be paired with provorov, sanheim, and ghost to make a great pair. We got options

Provy/Myers would be interesting. And it probably will have to happen if we want Myers to play some serious minutes.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

I posted icetimes one post above yours.

It appears as if they seriously limited the Ghost-Braun pair in the 3rd.

Ghost had the least shifts of any D.

Interesting, did not see that when I made my post. Wouldn't have guessed Niskanen got more minutes than Ghost in the third.

 

[Striiker]

If Hagg would of played yesterday and turned it over as many times as Ghost did in the 2nd period. You'd be blaming only him, but when Ghost does it, it's a team problem. Haha

If Hagg had the exact game Ghost did it would've been the best game of his career.

 

[Flyers Time]

If Hagg had the exact game Ghost did it would've been the best game of his career.

no actual response because you know you're a hypocrite.

 

[dingbathero]

I didn’t like Braun much that game. I expect a little more from him. He has to be better.

 

[Striiker]

no actual response because you know you're a hypocrite.

That was an actual response. Hagg hasn't had a game that good in a long time, if ever.

Ghost played well and if Hagg had been in it would've been infinitely worse because he's a terrible player whose biggest flaw is exactly what you're complaining about Ghost messing up. If the situation was bad enough that the entire team had a bad period then it's scary to think what would have happened if Hagg had played instead. It very easily could have been the difference between a win and a loss.

And simply watching the game makes it clear where the fault lies. Ghost had his share of mistakes but a lot of blame lies on the forwards for being sloppy with the puck and causing problems for the D to deal with. Especially when it was the 3rd, and 4th lines that he played most of the game with, which have been pointed out as a problem for a long time now.

 

[BernieParent]

I don't mind JVR & Pitlick together and they did work a few drop passes that resulted in chances. The issue is Thompson at Center. JVR would have had an assist if not for Thompsons rock hands.

The entire Habs franchise must have smirked at that miss because they saw these flubs with regularity while Thompson was wearing their colours.

 

[Rebels57]

The entire Habs franchise must have smirked at that miss because they saw these flubs with regularity while Thompson was wearing their colours.

That pass was actually from Laughton. There was another one earlier in the game where if his stick was on the ice and ready, he would have tapped one in. He stinks.

 

[Striiker]

Not only did Laughton start regressing to the mean, but his shooting % was so insane that he's making other people regress too.

smh my head we warned you guys

 

[1865]

I agree but AV isn’t going to sour on Niskanen after one bad game. He’s just not wired that way.

And neither should he. Niskanen has earned a pass.

 

[flyerslducks]

Provy/Myers would be interesting. And it probably will have to happen if we want Myers to play some serious minutes.

he can still play serious minutes and is. Ideally, you want provorov to play a little more. Doesn't need to happen because we have more balance and depth on D but I wouldn't mind him getting 25-30 a night at all. However, I don't want him to have like 5-8 of those minutes on the pp..let him dominate other areas.

 

[flyerslducks]

That pass was actually from Laughton. There was another one earlier in the game where if his stick was on the ice and ready, he would have tapped one in. He stinks.

it should all be fixed when lindblom plays on the 2nd line but.....

 

[Magua]

It's a shame Myers has to get such little ice time slumming it on the Not-Top-Pair with Sanheim. I mean, Myers' 17:58 minutes at 5v5 last night only LED THE TEAM in his quasi-playoff debut. With Sanheim following at 17:37 and Provorov at 16:40.

You'd also never know that Sanheim was 2nd on the team in 5v5 TOI/game this season, ahead of Provorov's actual partner, Niskanen. Myers only averaged 7 seconds less than Niskanen all season at 5v5, despite his early ups and downs. Where do people pull statements like Myers not getting "serious minutes" from? I know where. I'm just being polite and asking.

I love the chemistry and effectiveness of the Sanheim-Myers pair, and while things are always fluid, that should be a long-term duo. Set it up right, and we basically have two top pairs. Reminiscent of Nashville with Ekholm, Josi, Subban, and Ellis. All within a few seconds of each other at 5v5. And Ekholm actually leading in 5v5 TOI in the regular season and postseason. Labels are so passé.

 

[Striiker]

People still believe that the "top pair" gets the hardest minutes and don't understand the positive impact of playing with the top forwards.

Teammates matter more than opponents.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I have a pretty damn strong objection to the idea of Niskanen only having one bad game. He's 4/4 on them since the restart.

He absolutely should not sit and he had one hell of a year overall. Two different issues.

 

[Stizzle]

I have a pretty damn strong objection to the idea of Niskanen only having one bad game. He's 4/4 on them since the restart.

Do we think Niskanen is hurt? At times it looked like he was skating somewhat gingerly. Almost like a limp.

He absolutely should not sit and he had one hell of a year overall. Two different issues.

Let's hope last game was rock bottom, but we can't keep trotting him out if he's that cartoonishly bad again. It would be Hakstolian to just bury your head in the sand and keep playing him when Friedman is an option on the right side.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

Well that's exactly why I pointed out his stupid TOI-forward usage last game. He needs to be with the top 6 more because otherwise he's being wasted. His usage right now is like hooking up a trailer to a Ferrari... it just doesn't make sense.

Also, just to clarify, I get what you're saying but I wasn't saying that his decisions directly lead to 3 goals for and 2 goals against. I was just saying that for every one mistake made due to trying a high-risk/high-reward move, there's multiple successes. That goal stuff just an example of a "high-incident net-positive impact" being more valuable than a "low-incident net-neutral" impact. As always, net impact is what matters. Of course not every good play results in a goal, but not every bad play results in a goal against either. And honestly, I don't think he's much more risky than other D on the team. He's just the one with the unearned reputation/stereotype and people are hyper-aware of his every single mistake. Provorov tries risky stuff all the time and I rarely hear a peep.

I also think JVR is wasted in the bottom 6. Swapping Laughton to 3C and JVR to 2LW I think would have the best impact on him and the team. That being said whether he is top 6 or not doesn't excuse his process in areas other then scoring, he has the talent to be more disruptive on the forecheck and in front of the net and right now I am not thrilled with his process, the actual execution as far as goal scoring isn't my concern.

As far as Ghost, the goals were just numbers but the point I'm getting across is attempting a high risk plays to somebody like Thompson means the reward is already going to be muted. When Ghost is on the ice with low end talent I would like to see him simplify not because he can't execute or because I like low event hockey, but because those around him will likely fail to execute and thus the reward aspect is severely diminished.

As far as the stereotype I agree that is part of the problem, all the top 4 guys have tried and failed to make those high skill plays. I do think Ghost tries to execute more high risk plays then the other simply because I think he has the highest ceiling to pull them off and has the confidence to try. It's why I want him on PP1. But I would like to see him tone it down 5v5 unless he is playing with the top 6.

Couts is great, I see no flaws in the lineup. The cup should be a lock.

 

[ajgoal]

What's really concerning is that Niskanen saw more shifts, not fewer, given his play.

 

[CanadianFlyer88]

I have a pretty damn strong objection to the idea of Niskanen only having one bad game. He's 4/4 on them since the restart.

He absolutely should not sit and he had one hell of a year overall. Two different issues.

He should have sat most of the third period, yesterday, but he should not be removed from the lineup.

5 D had adequate games; one guy was on another planet.

 

[Striiker]

I also think JVR is wasted in the bottom 6. Swapping Laughton to 3C and JVR to 2LW I think would have the best impact on him and the team. That being said whether he is top 6 or not doesn't excuse his process in areas other then scoring, he has the talent to be more disruptive on the forecheck and in front of the net and right now I am not thrilled with his process, the actual execution as far as goal scoring isn't my concern.

As far as Ghost, the goals were just numbers but the point I'm getting across is attempting a high risk plays to somebody like Thompson means the reward is already going to be muted. When Ghost is on the ice with low end talent I would like to see him simplify not because he can't execute or because I like low event hockey, but because those around him will likely fail to execute and thus the reward aspect is severely diminished.

As far as the stereotype I agree that is part of the problem, all the top 4 guys have tried and failed to make those high skill plays. I do think Ghost tries to execute more high risk plays then the other simply because I think he has the highest ceiling to pull them off and has the confidence to try. It's why I want him on PP1. But I would like to see him tone it down 5v5 unless he is playing with the top 6.

Couts is great, I see no flaws in the lineup. The cup should be a lock.

I think we're pretty much in agreement on all of this.

But I'd just point out that the high-risk/high-reward plays don't necessarily need to be made with the "high-reward" being a goal scored by the guy he's passing to. If that were the objective, then yeah, there's really no point in trying it when you're passing to Thompson. Instead, some of the high-risk/high-reward plays are made with the ultimate objective simply being relieving pressure and getting a line change, where more traditional/safe decision is less likely to succeed. I think he makes those often enough that I trust his decision making when he tries it.

Just as a hypothetical to explain what I mean, say Ghost is stuck in the D zone with the 4th line. He has the puck and the typical choices are to either a) make a pass to a stationary covered forward, or b) give up possession by dumping it into the neutral zone... either way he's likely giving the puck right back to the opponent and they're still stuck in the D zone, unable to change. However, since he's Ghost, there's option C... keep the puck and try to use his skating to exit the zone himself. For most players, I'd just say dump it to the neutral zone, but if Ghost thinks he can skate it out, I'd typically trust that instinct because the majority of the time he's right and he'll be able to exit the zone with possession and make sure his teammates are able to get off the ice for a change.

(I know that isn't a great example, but I'm just trying to explain what I mean about the high-risk/high-reward plays not necessarily being with the intention of scoring a goal or being dependent on who he's on the ice with. How sometimes it might still the right move, even while with plugs. I don't mean to keep harping on this, I just don't think I'm explaining it properly and I'm trying to find the right way to get my point across. )

 

[Striiker]

What's really concerning is that Niskanen saw more shifts, not fewer, given his play.

As I've said many times (and got yelled at for), quality of play usually has no impact on usage with these coaches.

Niskanen playing bad has no impact on icetime, same as Ghost playing doesn't see him earn more icetime. Even in large samples during the regular season.

He should have sat most of the third period, yesterday, but he should not be removed from the lineup.

5 D had adequate games; one guy was on another planet.

Yeah, there's no way he can get benched if the alternative is Hagg.

However if he keeps it up and they want to toss out...
Provorov-Ghost
Sanheim-Myers
Friedman-Braun
... well...

 

[deadhead]

I love the chemistry and effectiveness of the Sanheim-Myers pair, and while things are always fluid, that should be a long-term duo. Set it up right, and we basically have two top pairs. Reminiscent of Nashville with Ekholm, Josi, Subban, and Ellis. All within a few seconds of each other at 5v5. And Ekholm actually leading in 5v5 TOI in the regular season and postseason. Labels are so passé.

It's why I think the one major move (other than moving Ghost and/or JVR or Voracek for ED and cap reasons) will be to obtain a young RHD to pair with Provorov for the long haul.

York and Zamula are not only LHDs, but it remains to be seen if they're good fits in that role.
And AV seems to put a lot of stock on LH/RH pairs.

I see no reason to break up Sanheim/Myers, Myers is becoming the shutdown defenseman who can CYA for Sanheim, who is our best offensive defenseman, but still has his share of those "momentary lapse of reason" when it comes to defense.

I'd like see Myers replace Niskanen on the PP, paired with Ghost (or Sanheim if they move Ghost), because he has that booming shot from the point but also the speed and reach to erase mistakes.