Exactly. If they want to blame someone for Chris barreling into their goalie, they should blame their D for getting beat badly and making the decision to try and trip him up.
Post-Game Talk: Eastern Conference Title Defense Day 1: Devils @ Rangers
- Thread starter Machinehead
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Exactly. If they want to blame someone for Chris barreling into their goalie, they should blame their D for getting beat badly and making the decision to try and trip him up.
I thought I was very clear.
Kreider goes to the net just like he is supposed to, but when a player has multiple incidents with a goalie it will inevitably become an issue. Kreider knows it is an issue unless he is an imbecile. To me, that means he will put himself into positions that will result in goalie collisions. Depending on whether you are a Ranger fan or not will influence your feelings on the matter.
Take the case of Scott Stevens. He perfected hitting the opposition in the head with his shoulder pads. Technically it was not illegal but I thought he was a dirty player because of it. A Devils fan would think I was crazy.
Bottom line is that if an opposing player does what Kreider does and Hank gets hurt, people here will call that player filth. Everything depends upon the jersey you root for.
People criticize Moore for making boneheaded decisions with the puck on his stick and in defensive coverage. Sure, he's 23 years old (almost 24), but he also has over 200 NHL games under his belt. You expect to see him making better decisions with the puck, and he is to an extent, but he's still making many of the same bone-headed errors he has every year since he joined the league. He still rips too many slap shots straight into the shins of defenders. He still skates the puck supremely well, but lacks the vision to distribute it effectively.
I'll never understand how people insist on putting players above criticism simply because of their age. To be honest, I see a lot more people complaining about others hating on John Moore than I do people actually hating on the kid. He has a great set of tools, but until he starts making more of an impact with them, people will rightfully critique him for not living up to his potential. Just like any other player.
haveandare
Registered User
You keep talking about what kreider does, implying that he's deciding to make contact with goalies.
What he does is use his strengths and try to score.
Shoddy d men pull and hack and him while he's gunning it toward their goalie. Sometimes he falls and makes contact.
That is in no way comparable to Stevens himself deciding yo throw shoulders at people's heads when nobody puts him in that position but himself.
If our d man blatantly pulled a skater down right in front of Hank, I know who I'd blame. I'd hope any of our d men are smarter then that since they've seen it happen against ck many times now, and they know it puts goalies at risk.
eco's bones
Registered User
Any player that stakes out territory in front of the opposition net is going to have goalie collisions now and again. Basically that's part of what it takes to be a power forward. You go to the net and you fight for territory and you get bounced around, crosschecked and hacked at.
I don't see the comparison to Stevens' shoulder hits at all. The puck is crossing the goal line after he's shot it while he's being driven into and collides with Fleury. That's not malicious--that's not trying to hurt anyone. That's trying to score a goal. Stevens tried to hurt people. I expect Kreider to use his speed to blow by a defenseman such as Emelin whenever he can. If he gets his feet swept out from under him by Emelin then--well that's not his fault--that's Emelin's fault. Between the split second he crashes into Price he gets a shot off--that again is trying to score a goal. It's a hard play. It's not a dirty play and I don't want him holding back his skating or not going to the front of the net just because someone might get hurt.
And this thing with Kinkaid that happened the other night. That happens literally hundreds of times a year all over the league. That it was Kreider and a bunch (not all) of nitwit Devils fans want to make a big deal out of it is a big so what? for me. And it's not like Henrik hasn't been run over numerous times in his career when other teams jam or crash the net. That's all good I suppose.
Hagelin beats the D as often as Kreider. Why has Hagelin managed to avoid goalies?
Clearly this isn't just about fast skating.
Your stance is fair because you accept that if the same happens to Hank you accept it as just part of the game. I don't think many fans will react as objectively as you.
My only point with Stevens was that Devils fans viewed him differently than the rest of us. The same may happen with opinions of Kreider.
- May 30, 2013
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Don't even think that's a question. Of course I'd be pissed if say David Clarkson ran Henrik. But if it wasn't his fault, I'll still recognize that. It doesn't mean I won't be furious with the player.
Inertia.
Stopping or altering the motion of an object at 186 lbs traveling at 22 mph is not the same as when the object is 226 lbs.
haveandare
Registered User
You're right. It's also about what players do when they beat D men. Krieder has a very nice wrist shot, thinks like a shooter and almost always goes to the net. Hagelin doesn't have as good a shot, doesn't play the same type of game and rarely goes to the net.
Also, Hagelin doesn't have Kreider's size or strength, so D men can play him differently. Kreider weights roughly 50 pounds more than Hagelin.
Just wanna clarify something. From the replay that I saw, Kreider going across the front of the net, not directly into kinkade, he got pushed from the left but he kept going forward and he took out kinkade's legs out from behind instead of stopping. I think that's the reason he was called.
From a physics standpoint I think that might be a little inaccurate. The person who weighs much more is also far tougher to move.
The difference is that Hagelin doesn't take a straight line to the goalie.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
It's about fast skating for a man his size. Hagelin has a lower center of gravity and far less momentum. Therefore he can keep himself under control with less effort.
If Hagelin has less momentum he is easier to steer off course.
In any case, it will be interesting to see if this becomes even more controversial.
Tougher to move, but not tougher to knock off balance. Because of intertia, a smaller guy like Hagelin will have a better chance of avoiding collision than a big guy like Kreider.
eco's bones
Registered User
If Zubrus, Clowe or Jagr are fighting for position in front of the Rangers net--it's very likely they'll be banging or pushed into Lundqvist sometime this season. It's pretty much the same story with Kreider the other night. To me it's not that much of an issue--it wasn't a dangerous play. The forwards that can go to the area in front of the crease to screen the goalie or just because it's a prime scoring area are there to score goals. They'll have to battle but it's not about injuring opponents. I expect Kreider to play to his strengths--size, strength, speed like I expect other players to play to their strengths. If you look like someone at Subban--he antagonizes, he has speed--he has a shot--he uses them all to his best advantage--that's what makes him a really, really good player. A guy like Lucic--his size, strength, hitting, fighting, putting up points, his ability to create havoc around the opposition's goal--I don't like it when he plays the Rangers but I admire the player--and it's a problem for us to stop him but it is what it is.
Tawnos
A guy with a bass
The problem with Kreider is that he's knocked off balance. This isn't just a study of the dynamics of motion. Muscles come into play too. The point is that the more momentum he has as an object in motion with a high center of gravity, the more muscle he needs to keep himself going where he wants to when an external force hits him. He has to have that ridiculous leg strength we know about just to do that, and it won't always be perfect.
