Early thoughts on Babcock

[Babcocks Marner]

29th place pace…

See above.

What team around us, EVEN in 29th, should even be close to us? Vancouver is 6 points ahead, and we got a game in hand... for 7th last.

 

[Pookie]

See above.

What team around us, EVEN in 29th, should even be close to us? Vancouver is 6 points ahead, and we got a game in hand... for 7th last.

What does that matter?

The predictions before the season started… with the talent we had was bottom 5.

Have we:

a) exceeded those predictions
b) met those predictions
c) fell short of those predictions


?


Clearly, b) for me. Which means coaching had relatively little impact. And a work ethic (BS) that is being developed is probably moot considering 23 contracts expire over the next 2 seasons. This roster will turn over.

Babcock's… sorry Babs'… real work will start with a young roster and higher expectations.

I think he's an awesome coach. I would love to play for him. I would love for my kids to play for him. I don't think Coaching has that much of an impact and this Babcock… sorry Babs'…. parade… is a little premature.

 

[Menzinger]

I just don't understand how you can say coaching has no/little impact when there are multiple metrics that show how his system has improved things for the team over previous years. Where the Leafs have worsened (offense) has come from the lack of talent - something that is beyond the control of a coach. Babcock can't turn Grabner into a 25 goal guy.

Using only league standings as the only measure of coaching success is deeply flawed. Carlyle leafs team made the playoffs I. A shortened season despite all the underlying numbers saying hat the team was terrible. Surprise surprise the team collapsed next season.

Coaching matters - a lot.

 

[Pookie]

I just don't understand how you can say coaching has no/little impact when there are multiple metrics that show how his system has improved things for the team over previous years. Where the Leafs have worsened (offense) has come from the lack of talent - something that is beyond the control of a coach. Babcock can't turn Grabner into a 25 goal guy.

Using only league standings as the only measure of coaching success is deeply flawed. Carlyle leafs team made the playoffs I. A shortened season despite all the underlying numbers saying hat the team was terrible. Surprise surprise the team collapsed next season.

Coaching matters - a lot.

Well, first your "metrics" may or may not be correlated to winning. If there is a correlation, you have to objectively ask whether it is low or high.

None of these metrics that show "improvement" tend to be correlated with winning. I mean statistical rigor, confidence interval, standard deviation type rigor.

What they show is "difference."

And clearly, this difference hasn't led to an improvement in results.

Your comment about Carlyle has me concerned. He won. Got in the playoffs. Winning record. Yes, no Cup but a winning record. You saying it is flawed leads me to wonder that if the Leafs did win something one day but did it without internet blogger approval… whether you would want to have an asterisk next to the result. I mean they did win. You say it was basically lucky.

Yet the guy who has them playing well in these "underlying metics" has then in 29th place. This is a good result?

As for the coaching element, Soccernomics is a great book. Granted, not hockey… but talks about finishes in leagues world wide and the impact of Coaching over decades. Great amount of research. Conclusion? Coaching doesn't seem to matter except in a few circumstances.

Most coaches get hired and fired for PR reasons.

Freakonomics also took a look at coaching. If you really want to understand it… or at least see their view and come up with your own conclusion… it's worth a google or a stop into your local Chapters/Indigo.

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

I think his biggest impact has simply been stability, and accountability.

In past seasons, there was constant talk of coaches being on the hot seat etc. With Babs on an 8 year deal getting paid more than many of the players, there's none of that. Babcock has the full authority to do whatever he see's fit to instill a hardworking culture in this group, and the players know that if they don't meet expectations there will be repercussions.

Perhaps surprisingly, this season has been much more upbeat than many in the past when the team was more competitive. Just from watching the team, it seems like a much funner group to be around - despite all the losing, there's none of the drama we've become so used to in Leaf Land; everyone is pulling on the same rope.

This. There was zero accountability in the previous regimes. Too many players got away with mail-it-in nights.

 

[eddieO]

What does that matter?

The predictions before the season started… with the talent we had was bottom 5.

Have we:

a) exceeded those predictions
b) met those predictions
c) fell short of those predictions


?


Clearly, b) for me. Which means coaching had relatively little impact. And a work ethic (BS) that is being developed is probably moot considering 23 contracts expire over the next 2 seasons. This roster will turn over.

Babcock's… sorry Babs'… real work will start with a young roster and higher expectations.

I think he's an awesome coach. I would love to play for him. I would love for my kids to play for him. I don't think Coaching has that much of an impact and this Babcock… sorry Babs'…. parade… is a little premature.

There's an old story about Picasso being asked to draw something for a fan at a restaurant. He doodled something in about five seconds on a napkin and gave it to him. He said to the guy, "that'll be 25,000 dollars". The guy says, "but it only took you five seconds to draw that.

Picasso says, "yeah but it took me 25 years to learn to draw that in five seconds"


The point of StoryTime is that Babs is building a mentality and culture that may not yield fruit now, but hopefully will later. If it were another coach, I don't think that same culture is there and the future success isn't either. All of the stuff the core group is learning now will come in handy later when it matters.

 

[Le Cobra]

Babcock acknowledged that we have plenty of talent coming soon to this team. The fact that we were 6 points out of a playoff spot at one point in the season as well as beating the Dallas Stars twice this season is proof of Babcock's miracle working abilities. Heck the Dion trade would have never happened if not for Babcock's guidance and support. Season ain't over yet and each game is a potential upset against a team that should steamroll us. The way the Leafs are grinding on any given night..they have earned back a little respect from the fans..they can be heard chanting GO LEAFS GO in situations they usually haven't in the past couple years. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[Le Cobra]

As much as our coach isn't giving up on his players, the players aren't giving up on him and his system, but rather, are embracing it.