CanadianCoyote
Registered User
It wouldn't be an HFBoards Arizona discussion without it being derailed into a discussion on QC or some other market. :p
Dysfunction in the desert: Finger-pointing, fear and financial woes roil the Coyotes organization
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Because the conversation shifted to valuation and one poster started throwing out what values should be with nothing to back it up and seemingly having no knowledge of how it works. I should have let it go but couldn't so I called it out and the poster just kept throwing out things that were demonstrably false and I still couldn't let it go.
You jumped on me just to make a point. Your position was the Quebecor had the funds. You were asked why they didn’t have a team then. You then spinned and cherry picked a quote when confronted with evidence. All this is to sidetrack my main point, which wasn’t even about QC, but if the NHL had the right to complain if they no one wanted to pay up wards of 700m for a team. Right now, no plans to expand beyond 32. You need to stop with the personal attacks here, and just address the point: should the NHL be upset no one wants to pay their price?
mouser
Business of Hockey
Conversation didn’t shift to valuation, it was a question of if the asked value was reasonable and whether the NHL could complain if some asked that price
QC doesn't havew a team because the NHL chose not to put a team there. The NHL did this for assorted reasons that others on this thread have pointed out including the fact the NHL really wanted the next slot in Seattle. However, that doesn't change the fact that you made up a lot of stuff that wasn't true and was easily proven to be untrue but you keep spinning.
I'd also like to hear that you said a lot of things that were demonstrably false ad evidence was provided that showed that, but I know you never will. Have a nice day
Major4Boarding
Unfamiliar Moderator
explore
I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
- Jun 28, 2011
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The Coyotes were set up to fail based on their stadium decision. You're already in a difficult situation by having a hockey team in the desert, but then you set up ridiculous road blocks by having your stadium away from the majority of the population.
Then from there, you get an owner like the Meruelos whose MO is cutting costs and using the threat of lawsuits to intimidate business partners to take less money than they're owed. There's no way the Coyotes are going to survive with owners like that because very soon no one is going to want to do business with them when everyone figures out that they're going to get ripped off
It's nice to see that Vegas' ownership had the common sense to set their stadium up in the heart of Vegas instead of somewhere like Boulder City, NV to save money
Also, if the Coyotes face the unfortunate decision of having to be moved, I'd hope that the NHL moves them somewhere like Salt Lake City, UT as opposed to a saturated market like Quebec City
Salt Lake City is a fast growing city and has a great climate for winter sports, you also create an instant rivalry with Vegas and can attract new fans to the sport
Then from there, you get an owner like the Meruelos whose MO is cutting costs and using the threat of lawsuits to intimidate business partners to take less money than they're owed. There's no way the Coyotes are going to survive with owners like that because very soon no one is going to want to do business with them when everyone figures out that they're going to get ripped off
It's nice to see that Vegas' ownership had the common sense to set their stadium up in the heart of Vegas instead of somewhere like Boulder City, NV to save money
Also, if the Coyotes face the unfortunate decision of having to be moved, I'd hope that the NHL moves them somewhere like Salt Lake City, UT as opposed to a saturated market like Quebec City
Salt Lake City is a fast growing city and has a great climate for winter sports, you also create an instant rivalry with Vegas and can attract new fans to the sport
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CanadianCoyote
Registered User
SLC would be the second-smallest US market in the entire league, only ahead of Buffalo and just a bit bigger than Hartford. It may be growing, but it's still a tiny market by NHL standards.
Besides, nobody in SLC has shown any interest in an NHL franchise. I doubt it happens simply because there's plenty of candidates ahead of it in market size (Indy, Cincy/Cleveland, KC, Atlanta, Houston).
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WVC is where the ECHL Grizzlies are, CC, they tried making a go of it when the IHL collapsed..... kept it going for 5 years and I believe 2 legal suits over the contract, one w/ Dallas, another w/ the Coyotes precipitated the transfer to Cleveland, in 2006....
explore
I was wrong about Don Granato and TNT
- Jun 28, 2011
- 3,752
- 3,434
Those are very good points against SLC
I know KC already had an arena built (or at least published plans to build an NHL-capacity arena a few years ago), but Missouri doesn't seem like a place that can support two teams, same thing with Ohio. Atlanta already failed twice (with the Flames first, then the Thrashers,) so I'm not sure how excited the BOG would be to award them a third franchise.
Indy and Houston are interesting
CanadianCoyote
Registered User
The NHL goes where the money is, so I severely doubt they care that there's been multiple attempts before; Atlanta is a net benefit if they can get something to stick, that's why they've tried twice to begin with. It's one of the largest markets in the US left without an NHL franchise, you'd be crazy to not think they'll go to the well again sooner or later.
Not to mention both Atlanta teams moved for reasons outside of the league's control; the Flames moved because their owner was bleeding money and needed to sell and the Thrashers moved because ASG was looking for any excuse possible to kick them out of Phillips Arena.
The NHL has shown itself to be incredibly stubborn on markets before, why would they stop with Atlanta? I think it's moreso just that nobody's come around and put in bids for a team in that market that they haven't gone back than anything else.
Kansas City has been discussed ad nauseum here and again, KC has shown no interest in assisting a prospective ownership downtown....
as for Atlanta.
again, unless there's a competing arena, it's unlikely Atlanta gets a 3rd shot at a hockey franchise, since the arena option have left the Metro that mostly encompasses Atlanta (Cobb vs Fulton) AS TO why Gwinnett BECAME the destination market, but the marketing that the Gladiators have done to keep Atlanta relevant.... much the same as the Braves did when they shifted away from Turner Field to Truist Park.
Indy really isn't a destination franchise territory, either.... the Fuel are there and have carved their niche in that market.
Houston is well discussed here, just as KC has been.
Or you could convince the Hawks owner. Seems no one has even tried that yet.
Given that he is business partners with the Devils owner I am sure he has had the opportunity to explore NHL possibilities before deciding to renovate the arena to make it unusable for hockey. The guy is also part owner of the Brewers so he probably understands the business of sports better than any of us.
Hawks won't be revisiting having hockey in State Farm Arena, Melrose.....it's why the arena was reconfigured to its present form....
I'm aware. But we've heard of nothing publically in years. Doesn't they didn't talk, but if they had we would have heard something by now.
Well, that sucks. Another arena will cost at least 400 million dollars.
GindyDraws
I will not disable my Adblock, HF
Indy isn't likely. Being close to five teams doesn't help, and there's the matter of demand from the area if we could feasibility support an NHL team on the local and corporate levels.
Houston remains the likely destination although it's not as open and shut as we would like it to be.
If Fertita didn't lose money then it wouldn't even be a question. He needs to be quiet and get some. Why doesn't he get his family to help him?
Bondurant
Registered User
Do you know where the arena is and how many people live here? The commute is no different for fans in Detroit or Chicago. Is it the best location? No. But it's an overblown argument. Put the team downtown and people still are not coming unless the product on the ice is worth watching.
Attendance was trending upward when, surprise surprise, they signed notable players and won more games.
Arena location is a distant second to having a good team. This is a market of transplants. Teams have to hustle harder for fans here. There is no generational attachment.
Major4Boarding
Unfamiliar Moderator
We will revisit this when the actual subject matter continues. As in, Katie Strang’s promised follow up.
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